Dr. J - Sixers on a 7 year plan

[MBunge]

They traded Holiday for the pick that became Noel.
They didn't tank that year yet. They finish with 34 wins and they had the 11th pick MCW.
So the tanking process can be considered as :
2014 : Embid
2015 : Okafor
2016 : ?

Hinkie was hired May 14, 2013

So his major moves
Draft MCW
Traded Holiday and Pierre Jackson for Noel and NO 2014 1st (Elfrid Payton)
Acquire Royce White, rights to Furkan Aldemir for 2014 2nd (top 55 protected or else extinguished - extinguished)
Hire Brett Brown as Coach
Acquire Tony Wroten for 2014 2nd (top 50 protected or extinguished - not exercised)
Sign Hollis Thompson as undrafted free agent
Acquire BJ Mullins, 2018 LAC 2nd for 2014 2nd top 40 and 46-60 protected or extinguished - extinguished)
Trade Evan Turner, Lavoy Allen for Danny Granger, 2015 2nd (Luka Mitrovic)
Acquire Eric Maynor, 2015 WAS 2nd (Arturas Gudaitis), 2016 DEN 2nd for 2014 2nd (protected and ultimately extinguished)
Trade Spencer Hawes for Earl Clark, Henry Sims, 2014 2nd (Jerami Grant), 2014 2nd (Vasilije Mircic)
Waive Clark, Granger, Maynor

2014 Summer/Season
Draft (aside from above) - Embiid, KJ McDaniels
Trade rights to Elfrid Payton for rights to Dario Saric, 2015 2nd (Guillermo Hernangomez), 2017 ORL 1st
Trade Thad Young for Mbah a Moute, Alexey Shved, Future CLE 1st
Acquire Thabeet, cash for 2015 2nd (with protections and not exercised)
Sign JaKarr Sampson as undrafted free agent
Acquire Marquis Teague, 2019 2nd (more favorable of MIL/SAC) for Casper Ware
Waive Teague
Trade Arnett Moultrie for Travis Outlaw, Sixers right to swap 2018 2nd with NY, 2019 NY 2nd
Sign Robert Covington as undrafted free agent after season starts
Aquire AK47, Jorge Gutierrez, Sixers option to swap 2018 2nds with BKN, 2020 BKN 2nd for Brandon Davies
Waive Gutierrez
Sign Fulkan Aldemir
Acquire Ronny Turiaf, rights to Sergei Lishouk, 2015 HOU 2nd (JP Tokoto) for Shved
Waive Turiaf
Acquire Jared Cunningham, rights to Cenk Akyol, cash for rights to Lishouk
Waive Cunningham
Acquire Isaiah Canaan, 2015 2nd (Richaun Holmes) for KJ McDaniels
Acquire Javale McGee, Rights to Chukwudiebere Maduabum, future protected 1st for rights to Akyol
Trade MCW for future protected 1st
Claim Ish Smith off waivers
Waive AK47
Claim Thomas Robinson off waivers
Waive McGee
Claim Glenn Robinson III off waivers

2015 Summer/Season
Draft Okafor (in addition to those mentioned above)
Trade rights to Hernangomez for 2020 NY 2nd, 2021 NY 2nd
Acquire Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, future 1st round pick, Sixers option to swap 2016 and 2017 1sts with SAC for rights to Gudaitis, rights to Mitrovic


Long list of moves, but honestly given what we know now, I don't think there is a single bad one there except perhaps the MCW trade pending the outcome of what that 1st ultimately ends up as (and that one is certainly defensible).  Sure at the time moving Turner and Allen and then Hawes looked bad, but they got a pretty nice return for what were clearly role players.  The Holiday and Young trades were both solid value even if they meant the Sixers were going to be very bad.

You can defend almost any move individually.  It's when you put them together in context that the cracks start to show.

The KJ McDaniels trade, for example.  Not that KJ is necessarily great but he showed flashes as a rookie and Hinkie traded him for a backup pg that's two years older and a 2nd rounder, and by all accounts he only did that because KJ wouldn't sign a cheap 2nd round deal for multiple years.  So rather than hold onto him an pay him, what?  Five to six million a year for 4 years when Philly has all the cap room in the world?  He unloaded him for scraps.

Mike

[Donoghus]

The plan may be well thought out (which is debatable) but it absolutely blows for the 76er fans.  If things fail to come to fruition, you're looking at almost a decade of failure which blows.

[slamtheking]

They traded Holiday for the pick that became Noel.
They didn't tank that year yet. They finish with 34 wins and they had the 11th pick MCW.
So the tanking process can be considered as :
2014 : Embid
2015 : Okafor
2016 : ?

Hinkie was hired May 14, 2013

So his major moves
Draft MCW
Traded Holiday and Pierre Jackson for Noel and NO 2014 1st (Elfrid Payton)
Acquire Royce White, rights to Furkan Aldemir for 2014 2nd (top 55 protected or else extinguished - extinguished)
Hire Brett Brown as Coach
Acquire Tony Wroten for 2014 2nd (top 50 protected or extinguished - not exercised)
Sign Hollis Thompson as undrafted free agent
Acquire BJ Mullins, 2018 LAC 2nd for 2014 2nd top 40 and 46-60 protected or extinguished - extinguished)
Trade Evan Turner, Lavoy Allen for Danny Granger, 2015 2nd (Luka Mitrovic)
Acquire Eric Maynor, 2015 WAS 2nd (Arturas Gudaitis), 2016 DEN 2nd for 2014 2nd (protected and ultimately extinguished)
Trade Spencer Hawes for Earl Clark, Henry Sims, 2014 2nd (Jerami Grant), 2014 2nd (Vasilije Mircic)
Waive Clark, Granger, Maynor

2014 Summer/Season
Draft (aside from above) - Embiid, KJ McDaniels
Trade rights to Elfrid Payton for rights to Dario Saric, 2015 2nd (Guillermo Hernangomez), 2017 ORL 1st
Trade Thad Young for Mbah a Moute, Alexey Shved, Future CLE 1st
Acquire Thabeet, cash for 2015 2nd (with protections and not exercised)
Sign JaKarr Sampson as undrafted free agent
Acquire Marquis Teague, 2019 2nd (more favorable of MIL/SAC) for Casper Ware
Waive Teague
Trade Arnett Moultrie for Travis Outlaw, Sixers right to swap 2018 2nd with NY, 2019 NY 2nd
Sign Robert Covington as undrafted free agent after season starts
Aquire AK47, Jorge Gutierrez, Sixers option to swap 2018 2nds with BKN, 2020 BKN 2nd for Brandon Davies
Waive Gutierrez
Sign Fulkan Aldemir
Acquire Ronny Turiaf, rights to Sergei Lishouk, 2015 HOU 2nd (JP Tokoto) for Shved
Waive Turiaf
Acquire Jared Cunningham, rights to Cenk Akyol, cash for rights to Lishouk
Waive Cunningham
Acquire Isaiah Canaan, 2015 2nd (Richaun Holmes) for KJ McDaniels
Acquire Javale McGee, Rights to Chukwudiebere Maduabum, future protected 1st for rights to Akyol
Trade MCW for future protected 1st
Claim Ish Smith off waivers
Waive AK47
Claim Thomas Robinson off waivers
Waive McGee
Claim Glenn Robinson III off waivers

2015 Summer/Season
Draft Okafor (in addition to those mentioned above)
Trade rights to Hernangomez for 2020 NY 2nd, 2021 NY 2nd
Acquire Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, future 1st round pick, Sixers option to swap 2016 and 2017 1sts with SAC for rights to Gudaitis, rights to Mitrovic


Long list of moves, but honestly given what we know now, I don't think there is a single bad one there except perhaps the MCW trade pending the outcome of what that 1st ultimately ends up as (and that one is certainly defensible).  Sure at the time moving Turner and Allen and then Hawes looked bad, but they got a pretty nice return for what were clearly role players.  The Holiday and Young trades were both solid value even if they meant the Sixers were going to be very bad.

You can defend almost any move individually.  It's when you put them together in context that the cracks start to show.

The KJ McDaniels trade, for example.  Not that KJ is necessarily great but he showed flashes as a rookie and Hinkie traded him for a backup pg that's two years older and a 2nd rounder, and by all accounts he only did that because KJ wouldn't sign a cheap 2nd round deal for multiple years.  So rather than hold onto him an pay him, what?  Five to six million a year for 4 years when Philly has all the cap room in the world?  He unloaded him for scraps.

Mike

looking at that list of transactions, other than the Holiday for Noel and the recent Sac trade where they get the right to swap picks, none of those deals stands out as a great or brilliant move.  a lot of shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic

[Moranis]

You can defend almost any move individually.  It's when you put them together in context that the cracks start to show.

The KJ McDaniels trade, for example.  Not that KJ is necessarily great but he showed flashes as a rookie and Hinkie traded him for a backup pg that's two years older and a 2nd rounder, and by all accounts he only did that because KJ wouldn't sign a cheap 2nd round deal for multiple years.  So rather than hold onto him an pay him, what?  Five to six million a year for 4 years when Philly has all the cap room in the world?  He unloaded him for scraps.

Mike

And yet KJ McDaniels barely played for Houston while the guy Houston gave up Canaan was a regular part of their rotation.  Plus Philly picked up a 2nd rounder.

[Moranis]

looking at that list of transactions, other than the Holiday for Noel and the recent Sac trade where they get the right to swap picks, none of those deals stands out as a great or brilliant move.  a lot of shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic

Fair point, but when you acquire future picks and cash and give up nothing (I don't mean nothing of value, I mean nothing), it is hard to call it a bad move.  even if those future 2nd round picks never play in the league, it is still a quality move. 

[slamtheking]

You can defend almost any move individually.  It's when you put them together in context that the cracks start to show.

The KJ McDaniels trade, for example.  Not that KJ is necessarily great but he showed flashes as a rookie and Hinkie traded him for a backup pg that's two years older and a 2nd rounder, and by all accounts he only did that because KJ wouldn't sign a cheap 2nd round deal for multiple years.  So rather than hold onto him an pay him, what?  Five to six million a year for 4 years when Philly has all the cap room in the world?  He unloaded him for scraps.

Mike

And yet KJ McDaniels barely played for Houston while the guy Houston gave up Canaan was a regular part of their rotation.  Plus Philly picked up a 2nd rounder.

I think that speaks to the disparate talent levels between the Rockets and Sixers and not the talent levels of the 2 players.

[bdm860]

The way I read Moranis's summary, I would definitely consider Okafor to be draft 3 and not draft 2.

Trading Holiday for the #6 pick kicks off draft 1.  Also it was never said to tank for 3 years, just build through the next 3 drafts, doesn't mean it has to be with your own pick (unless that actually was said, I dunno, just going off Moranis's summary, though obviously nobody other than Cuban is going come out and say they're going to tank, so maybe it's just a matter of reading between the lines). 

Also, when you're hired in May '13 and your sales pitch revolved around "the next 3 drafts" wouldn't you take that to mean '13, '14, and '15?  Maybe just poor wording by Dr. J who didn't know we'd be dissecting every word.  Or poor math, because it's really a 6 year plan when the first initiative starts now and not a year from now, like the old riddle that goes if a doctor gives you three pills and tells you to take one pill every half hour, how long will they last?  It's an hour, not an hour and a half.  So 6 years, not 7.

Debating the important things here, I know.

[Moranis]

You can defend almost any move individually.  It's when you put them together in context that the cracks start to show.

The KJ McDaniels trade, for example.  Not that KJ is necessarily great but he showed flashes as a rookie and Hinkie traded him for a backup pg that's two years older and a 2nd rounder, and by all accounts he only did that because KJ wouldn't sign a cheap 2nd round deal for multiple years.  So rather than hold onto him an pay him, what?  Five to six million a year for 4 years when Philly has all the cap room in the world?  He unloaded him for scraps.

Mike

And yet KJ McDaniels barely played for Houston while the guy Houston gave up Canaan was a regular part of their rotation.  Plus Philly picked up a 2nd rounder.

I think that speaks to the disparate talent levels between the Rockets and Sixers and not the talent levels of the 2 players.

My point was that Canaan actually played for the Rockets and in fact started 9 games for them.  McDaniels couldn't get off the bench. 

It seems to me that says that Canaan was actually a better player for an actual contending team, which probably just means he was better.  And it isn't like Canaan is some cagey veteran.  He is in his 2nd year. 

McDaniels benefited from a lot of playing time on a bad team, but when he went to a good team he couldn't get off the bench.  Canaan played for both the good team and the bad team. 

So Philly got the better player and a 2nd round pick.  Not sure how that is a bad trade.

[LGC88]

Anyway, I'm waiting to see what is the master plan for Philly.
For now they have done the easy part. (hiring a coach to tank, trading your best players and waiving the vets you acquire via trades), collect picks and draft the best players each time.
As a result they might be set in a 2 rotation big for the future. But is there anything else for the moment?
I'm guessing they continue to tank. Let's say they are lucky and get Simmons. What will they do? The plan said 2 years to get into contention.
I'm waiting to see the master plan in place. (no sarcasm, I'm really curious what Hinkie will do to reach contention level).

[kheldar52077]

Dr. J got it all wrong the plan is to tank for 5 year and draft a 7footer for each year and on year 6 teach them how to play volleyball. 

[LGC88]

Dr. J got it all wrong the plan is to tank for 5 year and draft a 7footer for each year and on year 6 teach them how to play volleyball. 

You are right, they might take Labissiere at the next draft.

[Celtics4ever]

Trouble, is seven years is a long time basketball wise.   That is half a career for some.   By the time, this plan comes, they will have some old guys on the decline.   Also, they are the laughing stock of the league, in many eyes, no one will want to go there.

[LGC88]

Trouble, is seven years is a long time basketball wise.   That is half a career for some.   By the time, this plan comes, they will have some old guys on the decline.   Also, they are the laughing stock of the league, in many eyes, no one will want to go there.

Not to say, once their 3 draft players come together and start to play good ball, how can you add talent?
- Trades (nope, they don't have assets to deal with)
- FA (hard to attract them saying "come here we'll be champion soon".
they have to make their rotation player through the draft as well, for few years till they are top 5 in the east, then they might attract FA.

[PhoSita]

Not exactly a shock that the Sixers have a long term plan.  Always assume Hinkie had to really sell them on his vision before they went down this path.

[I told you so]

Apparently this 7 year plan involves 4-5 years on unwatchable product on the court.  What's the best-case scenario for this year, four years into the tank ... 30 wins? 35? I notice some of the natives at Libertyballers are starting to get restless.  I would be too.