Author Topic: Smart snubbed again  (Read 10134 times)

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Re: Smart snubbed again
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2015, 01:43:13 PM »

Offline celtics2030

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Quote
Ah, the old "if you watch basketball" argument. Last refuge of the logically bankrupt.


His argument is that Burke can create his own shots and Smart can't, thus Burke has more upside offensively.

I understand the argument. My point is that telling me that something is true because I don't watch basketball is ridiculous.

As to the actual argument, I don't see any proof that Smart couldn't maintain the same (in)efficiency as Burke if he ramped up his shot volume. And anyway, since when is shot creation a good thing if you don't hit the shots? When is shooting from different spots good, if you don't get as many points per shot from any of those locations as Smart got on 3s last year? Why whine about Smart never getting to the line while complimenting a player who gets to the line even less? Etc.

Forget it , you will never understand. Just like the majority of people in every aspect of life.

You try to argue the shot creation by saying what good is it if you don't make any shots. I mean really, does nobody know this? Trey is young so who care's much if those shots do not fall yet. We hear the same from pro Marcus Smart supporters, he is young , he is injured, he is being played differently........yet when it comes to other players, the stats matter, but for Marcus , no they don't matter. It's an amazing thing. Try arguing something that will not offer an excuse for the player your supporting.

Re: Smart snubbed again
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2015, 01:46:53 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Quote
Ah, the old "if you watch basketball" argument. Last refuge of the logically bankrupt.


His argument is that Burke can create his own shots and Smart can't, thus Burke has more upside offensively.

I understand the argument. My point is that telling me that something is true because I don't watch basketball is ridiculous.

As to the actual argument, I don't see any proof that Smart couldn't maintain the same (in)efficiency as Burke if he ramped up his shot volume. And anyway, since when is shot creation a good thing if you don't hit the shots? When is shooting from different spots good, if you don't get as many points per shot from any of those locations as Smart got on 3s last year? Why whine about Smart never getting to the line while complimenting a player who gets to the line even less? Etc.

Edit: Ilikesports17 says many of the same things above. TP.

I don't have a horse in this race, sir.. just trying to facilitate communication (with popcorn in hand) :)
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Re: Smart snubbed again
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2015, 02:08:42 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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He is just a better player on offense........nothing more to that......If you watch basketball and know the game you see it.

Just like Elfrid Payton is a better offensive player. Trey Burke's offensive game may be terrible in shooting departments but he can create better and get shots off better.

Marcus Smart is limited on offense, and all it takes is 5 games to see that.
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Your evidence is trash though. This is not even attacking a poster. Your evidence just lacks any type of solid facts

Re: Smart snubbed again
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2015, 03:16:58 PM »

Offline Mass_1081

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  Smart wasn't snub for anything. I could see the arguement were the U.S. Team could want him for his defense (Bruce Bowan), but he didn't show anything his rookie season to warrant a spot. As for the so called Celtics fans still calling him Marcus Banks, it's idiotic. Nowhere near are they the same type of players. Rookies can have bad fg% when they have a low usg% and are still learning the game. Smart improved his three point shot from college, I agree he had a very poor shot selection his rookie year, but that's normal for rookies. Now if he continues to jack up threes at a poor percentage and continues to ignore driving to the basket or a midrange game then he deserves a lot of criticism. But people labeling a player after their rookie years are ignorant. Also, the Trey Burke comparisons need to stop. Burke was a good shooter in college that took a even farther step back his soph year. You can't compare someone's rookie season to their soph season, usually players take a jump their second year. Burke most likely will be the first guy off the squad.

Re: Smart snubbed again
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2015, 03:34:38 PM »

Offline Mass_1081

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Ah, the old "if you watch basketball" argument. Last refuge of the logically bankrupt.


His argument is that Burke can create his own shots and Smart can't, thus Burke has more upside offensively.

I understand the argument. My point is that telling me that something is true because I don't watch basketball is ridiculous.

As to the actual argument, I don't see any proof that Smart couldn't maintain the same (in)efficiency as Burke if he ramped up his shot volume. And anyway, since when is shot creation a good thing if you don't hit the shots? When is shooting from different spots good, if you don't get as many points per shot from any of those locations as Smart got on 3s last year? Why whine about Smart never getting to the line while complimenting a player who gets to the line even less? Etc.

Forget it , you will never understand. Just like the majority of people in every aspect of life.

You try to argue the shot creation by saying what good is it if you don't make any shots. I mean really, does nobody know this? Trey is young so who care's much if those shots do not fall yet. We hear the same from pro Marcus Smart supporters, he is young , he is injured, he is being played differently........yet when it comes to other players, the stats matter, but for Marcus , no they don't matter. It's an amazing thing. Try arguing something that will not offer an excuse for the player your supporting.

   So why don't you follow your own logic than. You called Smart a role player, I'm not saying he's going to be a star, but he doesn't even have a full season under his belt.the difference between Burke and Smart is Smart improved his three point shot from college. While your comparing Burke(who has already two seasons under his belt) who's percentages not only declined from college but when down his soph year. The eye test for you is also different than others, Smart's usg% was about twentieth among rookies, he never had the ball in his hands. I haven't seen anything that has shown me he's not able to create his own shot, he did so in college, he has a nice step back, he just hasn't had enough opportunities yet to show if he can improve or if he's destined to become just a defensive stopper. Not handing the pg duties to Smart last year was a big mistake, sink or swim at least by now you would have known what you have with the guy.

Re: Smart snubbed again
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2015, 04:01:31 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Quote
Ah, the old "if you watch basketball" argument. Last refuge of the logically bankrupt.


His argument is that Burke can create his own shots and Smart can't, thus Burke has more upside offensively.

I understand the argument. My point is that telling me that something is true because I don't watch basketball is ridiculous.

As to the actual argument, I don't see any proof that Smart couldn't maintain the same (in)efficiency as Burke if he ramped up his shot volume. And anyway, since when is shot creation a good thing if you don't hit the shots? When is shooting from different spots good, if you don't get as many points per shot from any of those locations as Smart got on 3s last year? Why whine about Smart never getting to the line while complimenting a player who gets to the line even less? Etc.

Forget it , you will never understand. Just like the majority of people in every aspect of life.


That's quite a generalization. I'll let that one stand on its own.

Quote
You try to argue the shot creation by saying what good is it if you don't make any shots. I mean really, does nobody know this? Trey is young so who care's much if those shots do not fall yet.

You're really arguing that we shouldn't care if shots fall?

Trey Burke is young though. He's only a year and 3 months older than Marcus Smart.

Quote
We hear the same from pro Marcus Smart supporters, he is young , he is injured, he is being played differently........yet when it comes to other players, the stats matter, but for Marcus , no they don't matter.

Wait a second. You talked about Marcus's "prayer" 3 pointers without mentioning any stats and WE - Ilikesports and I -  were the ones who pointed out that it's no worse than Burke's. We used stats - you didn't. We never said anything about them not mattering, that's just made up.

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It's an amazing thing. Try arguing something that will not offer an excuse for the player your supporting.

I never made a single excuse for Marcus Smart. Where would you get that idea?

To the contrary, here's what I had to say about him in the game thread from just last night.

Marcus...settle down man. You're not getting paid by the shot attempt.

First half thoughts:

Mickey and Rozier have played terrific ball on both ends of the floor.

Smart is playing a little...casual. Bad shot selection. Not making great plays for others.

Holmes is solid and finding ways to make things happen.

Hunter is shooting well, not forcing things and seems to play with more poise every game.

Say what you want about Smart's defense, or his plus/minus, or that guys have bad shooting nights, but the simple fact is that his shot selection last night was absolutely terrible, even for him.

There's no excuse for that. He's a veteran leader on that SL team and he needs to provide a better example than jacking up contested, off-balance threes early in the clock.


I also previously in this very same thread referred to him as a "bad shooter" and inefficient.

So, don't make me out to be some sort of blind Marcus Smart defender. I think I'm pretty objective about his pros and cons, so get off your high horse.

But you know what? If Utah called and offered Trey Burke for him, Danny would laugh and hang up, because Burke's not measurably better on offense and he sucks defensively compared to Smart.

And that's the truth.

Re: Smart snubbed again
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2015, 05:49:38 PM »

Offline celtics2030

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Ah, the old "if you watch basketball" argument. Last refuge of the logically bankrupt.


His argument is that Burke can create his own shots and Smart can't, thus Burke has more upside offensively.

I understand the argument. My point is that telling me that something is true because I don't watch basketball is ridiculous.

As to the actual argument, I don't see any proof that Smart couldn't maintain the same (in)efficiency as Burke if he ramped up his shot volume. And anyway, since when is shot creation a good thing if you don't hit the shots? When is shooting from different spots good, if you don't get as many points per shot from any of those locations as Smart got on 3s last year? Why whine about Smart never getting to the line while complimenting a player who gets to the line even less? Etc.

Forget it , you will never understand. Just like the majority of people in every aspect of life.

You try to argue the shot creation by saying what good is it if you don't make any shots. I mean really, does nobody know this? Trey is young so who care's much if those shots do not fall yet. We hear the same from pro Marcus Smart supporters, he is young , he is injured, he is being played differently........yet when it comes to other players, the stats matter, but for Marcus , no they don't matter. It's an amazing thing. Try arguing something that will not offer an excuse for the player your supporting.

   So why don't you follow your own logic than. You called Smart a role player, I'm not saying he's going to be a star, but he doesn't even have a full season under his belt.the difference between Burke and Smart is Smart improved his three point shot from college. While your comparing Burke(who has already two seasons under his belt) who's percentages not only declined from college but when down his soph year. The eye test for you is also different than others, Smart's usg% was about twentieth among rookies, he never had the ball in his hands. I haven't seen anything that has shown me he's not able to create his own shot, he did so in college, he has a nice step back, he just hasn't had enough opportunities yet to show if he can improve or if he's destined to become just a defensive stopper. Not handing the pg duties to Smart last year was a big mistake, sink or swim at least by now you would have known what you have with the guy.

I don't know what Marcus will be , but I am not going to call him a perennial all star, or future star, or even future good player........to me hes a role player.

I can care less about Burke , Elfrid Payton is my guy , who is better than both Smart and Burke.

Re: Smart snubbed again
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2015, 06:13:28 PM »

Offline Mlewis1392

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He was there last year as a rookie working against the stars and everyone raved about the kid I'm sure he will be there this time around

Re: Smart snubbed again
« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2015, 06:43:57 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Go get em Smart

Re: Smart snubbed again
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2015, 07:02:00 PM »

Offline alewilliam789

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 So why don't you follow your own logic than. You called Smart a role player, I'm not saying he's going to be a star, but he doesn't even have a full season under his belt.the difference between Burke and Smart is Smart improved his three point shot from college. While your comparing Burke(who has already two seasons under his belt) who's percentages not only declined from college but when down his soph year. The eye test for you is also different than others, Smart's usg% was about twentieth among rookies, he never had the ball in his hands. I haven't seen anything that has shown me he's not able to create his own shot, he did so in college, he has a nice step back, he just hasn't had enough opportunities yet to show if he can improve or if he's destined to become just a defensive stopper. Not handing the pg duties to Smart last year was a big mistake, sink or swim at least by now you would have known what you have with the guy.
[/quote]

I think you can list your own stat about Smart's USG% to show how he can't create his shot. I think the fact that Smart's USG rate was so low was because he couldn't create well for himself or for others. Why else would Stevens move him off ball? If you guys share an undaunted respect and allegiance to his understanding of the game you cannot question his move of Turner to the starting lineup. I thought it was clearly to lighten up the load on Smart because he clearly couldn't handle it. Also none of you can tell me that Stevens system doesn't have high usage rate players because when Thomas came he was instantly the highest usage rate player we had. This was because he could create his own shot and get other players open because of it. That's why it was so refreshing when we traded for him.

You can also look at Smart's extremely inefficient SL stats to prove to you that he still isn't good at creating his own shot. After taking the reigns of our SL team he put up an atrocious FG% and 3P% while being the main ball handler and highest USG player. These are atrocious stats that he put up against garbage competition where majority of the players are undrafted. If he can't create his shot efficiently against low level competition; what makes you think that he will be able to do it against real NBA players??


My last point is Ainge's moves. Why would Ainge trade for Isaiah Thomas and draft Terry Rozier if he thought he was set at PG? Why would he be in discussions with Denver for Lawson if he thought Smart was the future? I don't think Ainge has an affinity for small PG, but he knows that Smart is not the answer at the PG position and he is giving himself backup plans to lean on when it doesn't work out with Smart.