Author Topic: The Curse of the Summer of '07  (Read 8794 times)

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The Curse of the Summer of '07
« on: July 14, 2015, 10:56:55 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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The summer of 07 brought sweeping change to the Celtics franchise, a rushing tide that carried them back to the top of the league, a place many beleaguered Celtics fans feared they might never reach again, despite having spent decades at the top in the not so distant past.

Ultimately, the trades made in the summer of 07 by daring, evil genius GM Danny Ainge brought a championship, and at least 3 or 4 years of legitimate contention, to Boston.

Now that the Celts are mired in the rebuild following that period of contention, however, the summer of '07 casts a shadow over everything that the franchise does.  It seems to me, in fact, that the summer of '07 has fundamentally altered the way many Celts fans now look at the concept of rebuilding, to the point where perhaps there is a distinct disconnect with reality.

In short, I think that having experienced the summer of '07 makes many people truly believe that Danny Ainge can and indeed will most assuredly find a way to trade a pile of nothing for a couple of game-changing superstars who will vault us back among the elite, where the Celtics belong.


There are a couple of problems with that.



First, as our overlord and blogger buddy Jeff Clark so effectively explored on the front page, there has to be somebody available.

http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/7/14/8949721/what-big-names-could-the-celtics-be-targeting

Quote
Look, I get the plan that Danny has laid out.  I even support it to a large extent.  But I'm having a very hard time picturing how we're going to follow through on it when there's no clear target to aim for.


The next problem is, well . . . the KG and Allen trades were not so MacGyver-ish as many around here seem to want to make them out to be. 

Yes, the 2006-2007 squad stunk.  If there was much talent on that team, it certainly didn't come together.  Anybody trading with the Celts had to know they weren't getting any amazing established pieces in return.

Still, let's refresh our memories, shall we?

To get Garnett, the Celtics traded the following:

Big Al - Potential star prospect; taken straight out of high school in the mid-1st back in 2004

Gerald Green - Seen as a potential high level scorer; also taken straight out of high school in the mid 1st in 2005

Telfair - Former lottery pick acquired with the #6 pick in 2006

Ratliff - Big expiring contract, acquired in the same deal as Telfair

Gomes - 2nd round pick

2009 Celts pick - Likely to fall in the mid to late 1st given the acquisition of Garnett and Allen

2009 Minny pick - Likely high to mid 1st round depending on how Big Al worked out for the Wolves. Wolves could control their own destiny on this one.


Now, recall also that in order to get Garnett to agree to be traded to Boston and subsequently sign an extension there, the Celts had to first acquire Ray Allen.  That meant trading the #5 pick in the 2007 draft, which was considered a strong draft.

Garnett probably would not have agreed to come to Boston with just Ray Allen in tow, however.  Paul Pierce was already in B-Town, which meant a lot.

Paul Pierce, as we all know, was taken #10 in 1998.


So, you may notice the following:

- The Celts had to land in the top 10 of the draft three times over a decade to acquire the assets that made this scenario possible.  That meant winning only 36 games in 1998, only 33 games in 2006, and a paltry 15 games in 2007.  They tanked hard in 2007.

- Getting high upside prospects straight out of high school was a big part of this deal.  Big Al and Gerald Green were the meat of the trade package.

- Taking advantage of a good opportunity was a major aspect.  Not only was Danny Ainge familiar with Wolves GM Kevin McHale, which surely mattered, but the Celts also owned one of the Wolves' future picks.  If they were to head into rebuilding, surely it mattered a lot that they would get back the rights to their own pick.



Let's take it back to the present day. 

Finding high upside prospects in the middle of the first round is difficult, but it's not impossible.  These days, the straight-out-of-high-school gambles come from overseas (e.g. Exum, Giannis, Schroder, etc.).

That said, presently the Celts lack any young prospects with the kind of tantalizing potential that Big Al had.  Even Gerald Green circa '07 probably had more trade value than a lot of the Celts' vaunted youth brigade, solely on athleticism and seeming upside.

As for draft picks, the Celts have plenty.  They can almost certainly match or exceed the pick value that went into the Garnett trade, but they can't now and probably won't in the future be able to match the value of the #5 pick that went into the Allen trade, unless the Nets unexpectedly bottom out.

The opportunity thing is big.  Again, there has to be a star available.  And furthermore, Danny has to have some leverage to allow him to seal a deal ahead of the many other GMs who will jump on the same opportunities.  Danny isn't the only smart guy at the table -- something we forget around here frequently. 

The present day equivalent of the Garnett trade would be trading a package including Dallas's own pick for Dirk Nowitzki, if Dirk were about 7 years younger.  That's obviously not going to happen.  So who else is Danny gonna get the chance to put over a barrel?




My bottom line is this:

The Garnett & Allen trades were both the result of a very specific and fortuitous set of circumstances coming together at the right time and also the culmination of a decade of rebuilding that included at least three borderline or all-out losing seasons. 

Expecting a repeat performance from Danny every summer when he clearly doesn't have the ammunition or the opportunity is foolhardy.  We're only setting ourselves up for disappointment. 

Furthermore, we're solidifying unrealistic notions about how a rebuild can and should work.  Rebuilds take a long time, as a general rule.  Typically, teams have to lose a lot, over multiple seasons, before they can get together the resources to become good again.  That is just the way it works in this league, for better or for worse.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 12:32:10 PM by PhoSita »
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Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2015, 12:10:06 PM »

Offline LilRip

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great post. and it seems people tend overlook that we already had paul pierce, who was a perennial all-star at the time. bottomline, the summer of 2007 is very hard to replicate.

- LilRip

Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2015, 12:23:31 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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I read the title and totally expected this to be a "woe is me, the Celtics missed out on Durant and had to settle on a championship" thread from the "Recent Forum Posts" list. Instead, I was pleasantly surprised. Great thread. TP

Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2015, 12:41:22 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I read the title and totally expected this to be a "woe is me, the Celtics missed out on Durant and had to settle on a championship" thread from the "Recent Forum Posts" list.

Heh.  I have never understood people who say things like that.

Yeah, I wish Ainge had put together a championship team that could be dominant for a decade or more, but you take what you can get.  If not for some bad luck with KG's knee, they might have won back to back titles and been one of the very best teams in the league for 5 years or more.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2015, 12:46:45 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I guess the notable difference this time around is the lack of no-trade contracts around, and Ainge seems willing to take on an expiring deal for a star... we'll see how much of that is true if it comes to pass.

Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2015, 12:48:45 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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Great post, tp!

I am in general an optimist and I like to argue so that often leaves on the side of defending Danny's moves. However, it is more likely than not that Danny won't be able to find a star through a trade and there will never be fireworks.

With the idea that a championship is the only goal for a team becoming a mantra that a lot of fans live by there is a lot of pressure for the C's to set off fire works. I for one, don't expect anything more than incremental improvement ever year of this rebuild and will be happy if we get that even if it doesn't lead to a title.

 Even if Ainge hasn't built a contender he has put together a team full of guys I am going to enjoy watching. But it is harder to enjoy that when you have seen that "Anything is possibllllllllllllllllllle" when it comes to a quick turn around.
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Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2015, 12:54:14 PM »

Offline action781

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Very good post.  We were on the good end of very fortunate circumstances in '07 which were the exception, not the norm.  We are working towards putting ourselves in a similar situation (need to have those high upside prospects), but even if we do, there's no guarantee we can turn it all into superstars. 
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Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2015, 12:54:31 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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The summer of 07 brought sweeping change to the Celtics franchise, a rushing tide that carried them back to the top of the league, a place many beleaguered Celtics fans feared they might never reach again, despite having spent decades at the top in the not so distant past.

Ultimately, the trades made in the summer of 07 by daring, evil genius GM Danny Ainge brought a championship, and at least 3 or 4 years of legitimate contention, to Boston.

Now that the Celts are mired in the rebuild following that period of contention, however, the summer of '07 casts a shadow over everything that the franchise does.  It seems to me, in fact, that the summer of '07 has fundamentally altered the way many Celts fans now look at the concept of rebuilding, to the point where perhaps there is a distinct disconnect with reality.

In short, I think that having experienced the summer of '07 makes many people truly believe that Danny Ainge can and indeed will most assuredly find a way to trade a pile of nothing for a couple of game-changing superstars who will vault us back among the elite, where the Celtics belong.


There are a couple of problems with that.



First, as our overlord and blogger buddy Jeff Clark so effectively explored on the front page, there has to be somebody available.

http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/7/14/8949721/what-big-names-could-the-celtics-be-targeting

Quote
Look, I get the plan that Danny has laid out.  I even support it to a large extent.  But I'm having a very hard time picturing how we're going to follow through on it when there's no clear target to aim for.


The next problem is, well . . . the KG and Allen trades were not so MacGyver-ish as many around here seem to want to make them out to be. 

Yes, the 2006-2007 squad stunk.  If there was much talent on that team, it certainly didn't come together.  Anybody trading with the Celts had to know they weren't getting any amazing established pieces in return.

Still, let's refresh our memories, shall we?

To get Garnett, the Celtics traded the following:

Big Al - Potential star prospect; taken straight out of high school in the mid-1st back in 2004

Gerald Green - Seen as a potential high level scorer; also taken straight out of high school in the mid 1st in 2005

Telfair - Former lottery pick acquired with the #6 pick in 2006

Ratliff - Big expiring contract, acquired in the same deal as Telfair

Gomes - 2nd round pick

2009 Celts pick - Likely to fall in the mid to late 1st given the acquisition of Garnett and Allen

2009 Minny pick - Likely high to mid 1st round depending on how Big Al worked out for the Wolves. Wolves could control their own destiny on this one.


Now, recall also that in order to get Garnett to agree to be traded to Boston and subsequently sign an extension there, the Celts had to first acquire Ray Allen.  That meant trading the #5 pick in the 2007 draft, which was considered a strong draft.

Garnett probably would not have agreed to come to Boston with just Ray Allen in tow, however.  Paul Pierce was already in B-Town, which meant a lot.

Paul Pierce, as we all know, was taken #10 in 1998.


So, you may notice the following:

- The Celts had to land in the top 10 of the draft three times over a decade to acquire the assets that made this scenario possible.  That meant winning only 36 games in 1998, only 33 games in 2006, and a paltry 15 games in 2007.  They tanked hard in 2007.

- Getting high upside prospects straight out of high school was a big part of this deal.  Big Al and Gerald Green were the meat of the trade package.

- Taking advantage of a good opportunity was a major aspect.  Not only was Danny Ainge familiar with Wolves GM Kevin McHale, which surely mattered, but the Celts also owned one of the Wolves' future picks.  If they were to head into rebuilding, surely it mattered a lot that they would get back the rights to their own pick.



Let's take it back to the present day. 

Finding high upside prospects in the middle of the first round is difficult, but it's not impossible.  These days, the straight-out-of-high-school gambles come from overseas (e.g. Exum, Giannis, Schroder, etc.).

That said, presently the Celts lack any young prospects with the kind of tantalizing potential that Big Al had.  Even Gerald Green circa '07 probably had more trade value than a lot of the Celts' vaunted youth brigade, solely on athleticism and seeming upside.

As for draft picks, the Celts have plenty.  They can almost certainly match or exceed the pick value that went into the Garnett trade, but they can't now and probably won't in the future be able to match the value of the #5 pick that went into the Allen trade, unless the Nets unexpectedly bottom out.

The opportunity thing is big.  Again, there has to be a star available.  And furthermore, Danny has to have some leverage to allow him to seal a deal ahead of the many other GMs who will jump on the same opportunities.  Danny isn't the only smart guy at the table -- something we forget around here frequently. 

The present day equivalent of the Garnett trade would be trading a package including Dallas's own pick for Dirk Nowitzki, if Dirk were about 7 years younger.  That's obviously not going to happen.  So who else is Danny gonna get the chance to put over a barrel?




My bottom line is this:

The Garnett & Allen trades were both the result of a very specific and fortuitous set of circumstances coming together at the right time and also the culmination of a decade of rebuilding that included at least three borderline or all-out losing seasons. 

Expecting a repeat performance from Danny every summer when he clearly doesn't have the ammunition or the opportunity is foolhardy.  We're only setting ourselves up for disappointment. 

Furthermore, we're solidifying unrealistic notions about how a rebuild can and should work.  Rebuilds take a long time, as a general rule.  Typically, teams have to lose a lot, over multiple seasons, before they can get together the resources to become good again.  That is just the way it works in this league, for better or for worse.

I really really don't understand how the Nets are not viewed as a legitimate chance to be horrible next year. Off a team that finished below .500 they lost Deron Williams, Miles Plumlee, Alan Anderson and Telotivic. Believe it or not, that was 4 of their top 9 guys in minutes played (though teletovic did miss half the season). Deron was their 4th leader scorer and leading assister, Plumlee their second leading rebounder.

As much as we can say Deron Williams sucks, the fact is they had an absolutely horrible record when he did not play and were above .500 with him. Worse still, there is nobody waiting in the wings. His departure forces Jarret Jack to play point guard for 35 minutes a game, weakens their sg depth and forces someone like Shane Larkin to be play significant backup minutes.

Finally people say they will be ok if Lopez stays healthy all year. Umm Lopez played in 72 games last year. He played 17 in 2012-2013 and 5 in 2010-2011. Last year WAS the best case scenario.

So with all these factors, the only players they have added to their system are andrew barg and rookie rondo Hollis Jefferson. Personally the only team I would say that roster projects better than clearly is the 76ers post Embiid news. How do other people not see this? If we had the same roster people would say we were going to win 15 games.

Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2015, 01:02:26 PM »

Offline D Dub

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Danny spoiled us for sure.  Now, fan base around here seems to act entitled to being in contention for a title. 

Part of respecting the game is giving it your all.  You put out your best effort to honor those teams good enough to triumph over you.  And when everything comes together and your own team triumphs, it carries more weight when you can say you outplayed 29 other teams. 

But that's not what GS did this year.  They outplayed about 25 teams, with five or so teams not even bothering to show up.  Would ATL and Toronto racked up so many wins had they not been playing against NBA versions of the Washington Generals so often?  Hard to say.  If more teams start playing Hinkie-ball, how competitive can the league really remain?   

One thing that is true, the notion that you should either be one of the top two teams or the bottom two teams, illustrates just how far gone true sportsmanship really is. 

This is sport. 
That, in and of itself, means no guarantees.  When you go the 6ers route -- its just trying to game the system into delivering you a sure thing.  Fishing out of a barrel, if you will. 

What's ironic, is that the Advanced Stats renaissance should be creating more parody.  Instead, thanks the draft lotto, front offices still strive to put together losing rosters despite having so many more valuable scouting tools at their disposal.  It's a joke, and the NBA needs to seriously reform the draft if it has any hope of maintaining competitive integrity.

Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2015, 01:06:45 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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I really really don't understand how the Nets are not viewed as a legitimate chance to be horrible next year. Off a team that finished below .500 they lost Deron Williams, Miles Plumlee, Alan Anderson and Telotivic. Believe it or not, that was 4 of their top 9 guys in minutes played (though teletovic did miss half the season). Deron was their 4th leader scorer and leading assister, Plumlee their second leading rebounder.

As much as we can say Deron Williams sucks, the fact is they had an absolutely horrible record when he did not play and were above .500 with him. Worse still, there is nobody waiting in the wings. His departure forces Jarret Jack to play point guard for 35 minutes a game, weakens their sg depth and forces someone like Shane Larkin to be play significant backup minutes.

Finally people say they will be ok if Lopez stays healthy all year. Umm Lopez played in 72 games last year. He played 17 in 2012-2013 and 5 in 2010-2011. Last year WAS the best case scenario.

So with all these factors, the only players they have added to their system are andrew barg and rookie rondo Hollis Jefferson. Personally the only team I would say that roster projects better than clearly is the 76ers post Embiid news. How do other people not see this? If we had the same roster people would say we were going to win 15 games.

I agree. The Nets roster is pretty bad right now, and they'll either lose Lopez to injury again or he'll play and their defense will suffer greatly because of it. They certainly have the potential to be awful and hand Boston a great draft pick.

TP to the OP for a comprehensive and well-written summation of the '07 situation.

I would add, however, that while the OP is correct in asserting that the circumstances of that summer are difficult, if not impossible, to replicate, it's interesting to note that Danny clearly feels like that approach remains our best option this time around as well—collecting assets while avoiding outright tanking, and hoping that THE deal presents itself. Maybe he has more faith in being able to replicate '07 than we do?
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Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2015, 01:09:31 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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We did have an impressive haul of assets then.

The big thing that encourages me is that Ainge was able to get KG and Ray without giving up some of our best assets.

We came into that offseason with:
Pierce
#5
Rondo
T Allen
Perk
Telfair
Big Al
Green
Delonte
and a few other bit pieces.

Obviously Big Al went on to have an all star career, but other than that Danny Ainge did an impressive job keeping the key pieces here. I mean he was able to get 2 stars without giving up Rajon Rondo, Perkins, or Tony Allen. and not to mention paul pierce.

Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2015, 01:15:05 PM »

Offline max215

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The summer of 07 brought sweeping change to the Celtics franchise, a rushing tide that carried them back to the top of the league, a place many beleaguered Celtics fans feared they might never reach again, despite having spent decades at the top in the not so distant past.

Ultimately, the trades made in the summer of 07 by daring, evil genius GM Danny Ainge brought a championship, and at least 3 or 4 years of legitimate contention, to Boston.

Now that the Celts are mired in the rebuild following that period of contention, however, the summer of '07 casts a shadow over everything that the franchise does.  It seems to me, in fact, that the summer of '07 has fundamentally altered the way many Celts fans now look at the concept of rebuilding, to the point where perhaps there is a distinct disconnect with reality.

In short, I think that having experienced the summer of '07 makes many people truly believe that Danny Ainge can and indeed will most assuredly find a way to trade a pile of nothing for a couple of game-changing superstars who will vault us back among the elite, where the Celtics belong.


There are a couple of problems with that.



First, as our overlord and blogger buddy Jeff Clark so effectively explored on the front page, there has to be somebody available.

http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/7/14/8949721/what-big-names-could-the-celtics-be-targeting

Quote
Look, I get the plan that Danny has laid out.  I even support it to a large extent.  But I'm having a very hard time picturing how we're going to follow through on it when there's no clear target to aim for.


The next problem is, well . . . the KG and Allen trades were not so MacGyver-ish as many around here seem to want to make them out to be. 

Yes, the 2006-2007 squad stunk.  If there was much talent on that team, it certainly didn't come together.  Anybody trading with the Celts had to know they weren't getting any amazing established pieces in return.

Still, let's refresh our memories, shall we?

To get Garnett, the Celtics traded the following:

Big Al - Potential star prospect; taken straight out of high school in the mid-1st back in 2004

Gerald Green - Seen as a potential high level scorer; also taken straight out of high school in the mid 1st in 2005

Telfair - Former lottery pick acquired with the #6 pick in 2006

Ratliff - Big expiring contract, acquired in the same deal as Telfair

Gomes - 2nd round pick

2009 Celts pick - Likely to fall in the mid to late 1st given the acquisition of Garnett and Allen

2009 Minny pick - Likely high to mid 1st round depending on how Big Al worked out for the Wolves. Wolves could control their own destiny on this one.


Now, recall also that in order to get Garnett to agree to be traded to Boston and subsequently sign an extension there, the Celts had to first acquire Ray Allen.  That meant trading the #5 pick in the 2007 draft, which was considered a strong draft.

Garnett probably would not have agreed to come to Boston with just Ray Allen in tow, however.  Paul Pierce was already in B-Town, which meant a lot.

Paul Pierce, as we all know, was taken #10 in 1998.


So, you may notice the following:

- The Celts had to land in the top 10 of the draft three times over a decade to acquire the assets that made this scenario possible.  That meant winning only 36 games in 1998, only 33 games in 2006, and a paltry 15 games in 2007.  They tanked hard in 2007.

- Getting high upside prospects straight out of high school was a big part of this deal.  Big Al and Gerald Green were the meat of the trade package.

- Taking advantage of a good opportunity was a major aspect.  Not only was Danny Ainge familiar with Wolves GM Kevin McHale, which surely mattered, but the Celts also owned one of the Wolves' future picks.  If they were to head into rebuilding, surely it mattered a lot that they would get back the rights to their own pick.



Let's take it back to the present day. 

Finding high upside prospects in the middle of the first round is difficult, but it's not impossible.  These days, the straight-out-of-high-school gambles come from overseas (e.g. Exum, Giannis, Schroder, etc.).

That said, presently the Celts lack any young prospects with the kind of tantalizing potential that Big Al had.  Even Gerald Green circa '07 probably had more trade value than a lot of the Celts' vaunted youth brigade, solely on athleticism and seeming upside.

As for draft picks, the Celts have plenty.  They can almost certainly match or exceed the pick value that went into the Garnett trade, but they can't now and probably won't in the future be able to match the value of the #5 pick that went into the Allen trade, unless the Nets unexpectedly bottom out.

The opportunity thing is big.  Again, there has to be a star available.  And furthermore, Danny has to have some leverage to allow him to seal a deal ahead of the many other GMs who will jump on the same opportunities.  Danny isn't the only smart guy at the table -- something we forget around here frequently. 

The present day equivalent of the Garnett trade would be trading a package including Dallas's own pick for Dirk Nowitzki, if Dirk were about 7 years younger.  That's obviously not going to happen.  So who else is Danny gonna get the chance to put over a barrel?




My bottom line is this:

The Garnett & Allen trades were both the result of a very specific and fortuitous set of circumstances coming together at the right time and also the culmination of a decade of rebuilding that included at least three borderline or all-out losing seasons. 

Expecting a repeat performance from Danny every summer when he clearly doesn't have the ammunition or the opportunity is foolhardy.  We're only setting ourselves up for disappointment. 

Furthermore, we're solidifying unrealistic notions about how a rebuild can and should work.  Rebuilds take a long time, as a general rule.  Typically, teams have to lose a lot, over multiple seasons, before they can get together the resources to become good again.  That is just the way it works in this league, for better or for worse.

I really really don't understand how the Nets are not viewed as a legitimate chance to be horrible next year. Off a team that finished below .500 they lost Deron Williams, Miles Plumlee, Alan Anderson and Telotivic. Believe it or not, that was 4 of their top 9 guys in minutes played (though teletovic did miss half the season). Deron was their 4th leader scorer and leading assister, Plumlee their second leading rebounder.

As much as we can say Deron Williams sucks, the fact is they had an absolutely horrible record when he did not play and were above .500 with him. Worse still, there is nobody waiting in the wings. His departure forces Jarret Jack to play point guard for 35 minutes a game, weakens their sg depth and forces someone like Shane Larkin to be play significant backup minutes.

Finally people say they will be ok if Lopez stays healthy all year. Umm Lopez played in 72 games last year. He played 17 in 2012-2013 and 5 in 2010-2011. Last year WAS the best case scenario.

So with all these factors, the only players they have added to their system are andrew barg and rookie rondo Hollis Jefferson. Personally the only team I would say that roster projects better than clearly is the 76ers post Embiid news. How do other people not see this? If we had the same roster people would say we were going to win 15 games.

Good OP by PhoSita, but I don't understand the optimism for the Nets either. That roster is truly terrible, and if Lopez goes down (which he has every other year for the last 4 years), they have the single worst roster in the NBA.
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Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2015, 01:19:30 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I don't want to make this thread about the Nets, but I disagree with the idea that they will be awful.

Lopez is not nearly as bad on defense as some people suggest, and he's an everyday 20 point scorer.  Thad Young is a good fit with Lopez.

The Nets have stripped down their roster this summer, apparently in order to get below the luxury tax, which makes sense.

They've got a decent stable of role players to put around Iso-Joe, Thad, and Brook, though.  Jack, Bogdanovic, Karasev, RHJ, Corey Jefferson, Bargnani.

That team will be far from good, but with their core three guys they'll be able to kill a lot of bad teams with repetitive, grinding half-court sets.  They've also got a pretty good coach.

Will the Nets win more than they lose next year?  I really doubt it.  Will they lose enough to get the Celts a top 10 pick?  I doubt that, too.
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Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2015, 01:27:08 PM »

Offline max215

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I don't want to make this thread about the Nets, but I disagree with the idea that they will be awful.

Lopez is not nearly as bad on defense as some people suggest, and he's an everyday 20 point scorer.  Thad Young is a good fit with Lopez.

The Nets have stripped down their roster this summer, apparently in order to get below the luxury tax, which makes sense.

They've got a decent stable of role players to put around Iso-Joe, Thad, and Brook, though.  Jack, Bogdanovic, Karasev, RHJ, Corey Jefferson, Bargnani.

That team will be far from good, but with their core three guys they'll be able to kill a lot of bad teams with repetitive, grinding half-court sets.  They've also got a pretty good coach.

Will the Nets win more than they lose next year?  I really doubt it.  Will they lose enough to get the Celts a top 10 pick?  I doubt that, too.

We'll agree to disagree then. Just to make myself clear though, I think Lopez is a very good player and is the only thing keeping them in the vicinity of 30 wins instead of the teens. My only concern with Lopez is his health, a very legitimate concern IMO.
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Re: The Curse of the Summer of '07
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2015, 01:28:55 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I don't want to make this thread about the Nets, but I disagree with the idea that they will be awful.

Lopez is not nearly as bad on defense as some people suggest, and he's an everyday 20 point scorer.  Thad Young is a good fit with Lopez.

The Nets have stripped down their roster this summer, apparently in order to get below the luxury tax, which makes sense.

They've got a decent stable of role players to put around Iso-Joe, Thad, and Brook, though.  Jack, Bogdanovic, Karasev, RHJ, Corey Jefferson, Bargnani.

That team will be far from good, but with their core three guys they'll be able to kill a lot of bad teams with repetitive, grinding half-court sets.  They've also got a pretty good coach.

Will the Nets win more than they lose next year?  I really doubt it.  Will they lose enough to get the Celts a top 10 pick?  I doubt that, too.
I agree that this shouldn't become a Nets thread (you should instead respond to my previous comment haha)

All your points are true, although I think you are overrating their young players.

The only thing you didn't mention is Brook Lopez's injury history. He hasn't played a full season since 2010-2011 and two of the last 4 years he has played less than 18 games. If he gets hurt, I think we get a top 10 pick out of them.
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