Sully and KO

[D.o.s.]

Hard to imagine at this point that the team sees all that much of a future in either guy, given the moves so far this off-season.

I doubt that either Sully or Kelly will lose minutes to David Lee.  I expect Lee to play sparingly.  Probably a little more than Wallace, but not too much.

Is this because you think Stevens will be sitting him ala Bogans + Wallace or because he's not good enough to take their minutes away?

[Celtics18]

Hard to imagine at this point that the team sees all that much of a future in either guy, given the moves so far this off-season.

I doubt that either Sully or Kelly will lose minutes to David Lee.  I expect Lee to play sparingly.  Probably a little more than Wallace, but not too much.

Is this because you think Stevens will be sitting him ala Bogans + Wallace or because he's not good enough to take their minutes away?

I think that both Bogans and Wallace didn't play because they weren't better than the guys ahead of them.  I think it will be the same case with David Lee. 

[D.o.s.]

Hard to imagine at this point that the team sees all that much of a future in either guy, given the moves so far this off-season.

I doubt that either Sully or Kelly will lose minutes to David Lee.  I expect Lee to play sparingly.  Probably a little more than Wallace, but not too much.

Is this because you think Stevens will be sitting him ala Bogans + Wallace or because he's not good enough to take their minutes away?

I think that both Bogans and Wallace didn't play because they weren't better than the guys ahead of them.  I think it will be the same case with David Lee.

Bold statement.

[ssspence]

Hard to imagine at this point that the team sees all that much of a future in either guy, given the moves so far this off-season.

I doubt that either Sully or Kelly will lose minutes to David Lee.  I expect Lee to play sparingly.  Probably a little more than Wallace, but not too much.

Is this because you think Stevens will be sitting him ala Bogans + Wallace or because he's not good enough to take their minutes away?

I think that both Bogans and Wallace didn't play because they weren't better than the guys ahead of them.  I think it will be the same case with David Lee.

Bold statement.

Seriously. Olynyk dreams of being David Lee some day at night.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Hard to imagine at this point that the team sees all that much of a future in either guy, given the moves so far this off-season.

I doubt that either Sully or Kelly will lose minutes to David Lee.  I expect Lee to play sparingly.  Probably a little more than Wallace, but not too much.

Is this because you think Stevens will be sitting him ala Bogans + Wallace or because he's not good enough to take their minutes away?

I think that both Bogans and Wallace didn't play because they weren't better than the guys ahead of them.  I think it will be the same case with David Lee.

Lee is now literally the 2nd best offensive player on the team.

[Rakulp]

How many superstars that have ever played the game hit their peak at 23 or 24?

Yeah, for some players...mostly those who are low to mid tier players.  They hit their ceiling and that's it.

Whether KO or Sully have hit their ceiling yet is still to be determined IMO.  Sully has the weight issue dogging him to get better.  KO needs to work on his kung fu skills a bit too

This could be it for them...or this could just be the start.  We'll see

Rak

[Donoghus]

I don't think either will end up being part of the long-term future of this team.  Maybe K.O. as a rotation guy down the road but, more likely than not, I see them being gone within a season or two. 

One, if not both, will be used as parts in trades.

[PhoSita]

Hard to imagine at this point that the team sees all that much of a future in either guy, given the moves so far this off-season.

I doubt that either Sully or Kelly will lose minutes to David Lee.  I expect Lee to play sparingly.  Probably a little more than Wallace, but not too much.

Is this because you think Stevens will be sitting him ala Bogans + Wallace or because he's not good enough to take their minutes away?

I think that both Bogans and Wallace didn't play because they weren't better than the guys ahead of them.  I think it will be the same case with David Lee.

I think David Lee will get minutes the same way Kris Humphries got minutes.  Slowly at first, but he'll be a starter before long.

He's not really much better than Sullinger or Olynyk.  In fact, due to the lack of an outside shot, in some ways he's worse.  But he's a competent veteran who will be more consistent than those guys.  He'll probably look better in practice.

I think the writing is on the wall, though.  The team will trade one or both of KO and Sully this summer.  If the team really believed either of them could be a long term fixture in the frontcourt, they wouldn't have gone out and gotten Amir Johnson and David Lee while also retaining Jerebko.

[ssspence]

I don't think either will end up being part of the long-term future of this team.  Maybe K.O. as a rotation guy down the road but, more likely than not, I see them being gone within a season or two. 

One, if not both, will be used as parts in trades.

It just really hurts my head to think this team could have had a young core of the Antetokounmpo, Smart, Sully, and Winslow, but instead we have Olynyk, Sully, Smart, and Rozier.

Excedrin please. Extra Strength.

[D.o.s.]

How many superstars that have ever played the game hit their peak at 23 or 24?

Yeah, for some players...mostly those who are low to mid tier players.  They hit their ceiling and that's it.

Whether KO or Sully have hit their ceiling yet is still to be determined IMO.  Sully has the weight issue dogging him to get better.  KO needs to work on his kung fu skills a bit too

This could be it for them...or this could just be the start.  We'll see

Rak

Typically players (and people) hit their athletic peak at around 26-27 and fall off pretty quickly after 30.  Usually their best individual performances follow, although they may experience more success as part of a team after that and arguably play "better" than they were when they were in their physical prime.

[PhoSita]

I don't think either will end up being part of the long-term future of this team.  Maybe K.O. as a rotation guy down the road but, more likely than not, I see them being gone within a season or two. 

One, if not both, will be used as parts in trades.

It just really hurts my head to think this team could have had a young core of the Antetokounmpo, Smart, Sully, and Winslow, but instead we have Olynyk, Sully, Smart, and Rozier.

Excedrin please. Extra Strength.

Yup.  Rebuilding takes luck.  Also requires a GM not to totally miss on a top prospect when one falls in the draft.  Being a bit worse record-wise both of the last two years wouldn't have hurt, though.

Seems kinda like the Celts have given up on rebuilding after just two years of doing it and have decided to make it work with the assets they have, hoping for a trade miracle to occur.

[ssspence]

I don't think either will end up being part of the long-term future of this team.  Maybe K.O. as a rotation guy down the road but, more likely than not, I see them being gone within a season or two. 

One, if not both, will be used as parts in trades.

It just really hurts my head to think this team could have had a young core of the Antetokounmpo, Smart, Sully, and Winslow, but instead we have Olynyk, Sully, Smart, and Rozier.

Excedrin please. Extra Strength.

Yup.  Rebuilding takes luck.  Also requires a GM not to totally miss on a top prospect when one falls in the draft.  Being a bit worse record-wise both of the last two years wouldn't have hurt, though.

Seems kinda like the Celts have given up on rebuilding after just two years of doing it and have decided to make it work with the assets they have, hoping for a trade miracle to occur.

I don't really think so. The only real difference between now and the 2005-2007 era is we don't have a Paul Pierce, and our rookie-scale players aren't quite as good (Rondo, Big Al, Gerald Green v. Smart, Sully, KO, etc), yet our draft pick stash is better, and our contract situation is outstanding.

My point: ALL of Ainge's deals in the past 18 months have been about asset collection, including the Lee deal. He's basically keeping his fingers crossed that a meaningful vet will become available via trade between now and next summer, so he can start to build a decent looking layout for Durant and another max guy this time next year.

People thought he had no chance then, and he proved folks wrong.

I don't gripe about Ainge that transactional GM -- he's smart and aggressive and fearless. And I an even understand not doing the Winslow deal. But missing on Giannis in lieu of Olynyk really hurts. His draft record is... good... but far from great.

[Celtics4ever]

ALL of Ainge's deals in the past 18 months have been about asset collection, including the Lee deal. He's basically keeping his fingers crossed that a meaningful vet will become available via trade between now and next summer, so he can start to build a decent looking layout for Durant and another max guy this time next year.

I agree and nothing has subtracted from the team with those additions.   Still some yahoos are calling for his head.   I am glad we have Ainge.

[Snakehead]

Lee is going to play.  Stevens plays the best players over young guys that need to get development, even if in the long term you might want to do the opposite.  He is our best big for sure.  And Ainge will gladly trade him later in the year if he plays well like he has in the past.

I do hope we free up playing time and personally, I'm totally out on Sullinger.  Don't buy into his work ethic at all or effort.   He has skill for sure but no way I pay this dude his next contract.

I think Olynyk is certainly tradable in a deal but I think he's someone the team is very high on and for good reason.  He has really big potential.  I know he has a lot of haters on here but he can really be a big time game changer and is at times already.  This is a big year for him to prove himself though.

I don't think either will end up being part of the long-term future of this team.  Maybe K.O. as a rotation guy down the road but, more likely than not, I see them being gone within a season or two. 

One, if not both, will be used as parts in trades.

It just really hurts my head to think this team could have had a young core of the Antetokounmpo, Smart, Sully, and Winslow, but instead we have Olynyk, Sully, Smart, and Rozier.

Excedrin please. Extra Strength.

Yup.  Rebuilding takes luck.  Also requires a GM not to totally miss on a top prospect when one falls in the draft.  Being a bit worse record-wise both of the last two years wouldn't have hurt, though.

Seems kinda like the Celts have given up on rebuilding after just two years of doing it and have decided to make it work with the assets they have, hoping for a trade miracle to occur.

I agree with the first part not the second.  This is the rebuild.  And Ainge would gladly take Winslow if he could have, he tried very hard to get him.

[jaketwice]

I don't understand why people think a 23 or a 24 year old is going to magically get much better - particularly where the issues that Olynyk and Sullinger face are due to a lack of athleticism. I'm sure they're great guys - but I can see that they are not going to be top flight players in the NBA, ever.

Surely, every GM in the NBA can also see that. So I do not understand why everyone is suggesting that they are "trade-able assets." You essentially have two not particularly athletic power forwards (one under-sized, one with poor lateral quickness) who are not especially good defenders. There is certainly room for them in the league - but they are hardly a commodity.

The way the league is going, you need excellence from several positions to have a chance. Every team that has one the championship in the last ten years has had three bona-fide all stars. That leaves room for two middling starters. Teams are simply not prioritizing players like Olynyk and Sully. Sorry. And I agree - they are not going to become all stars this year, or next year - or at any point in their careers. Neither will Jonas Jerebko, or Amir Johnson. Smart has a chance. Perhaps Rozier has a chance.