If Smart is the sticking point

[max215]

Think about it.  Andrew Wiggins netted Lebron james.  Marcus could equal someone like Cousins but even still.  We aren't trying to be the Cavaliers. We are trying to beat them.

Riight now we have so many picks we can keep Marcus and do other things.

What on earth are you talking about.

Cleveland doesnt trade Wiggins unless it nets them Lebron james.  That's how it went down or did you forget?

Cleveland trading Wiggins had nothing to do with them signing LeBron in free agency. Wiggins was traded for Kevin Love, and was traded presumably with LeBron's approval, but what you're saying is factually incorrect.

D.o.s, I'm pretty sure this is the same guy from that thread with the Curry/Bird argument...

[D.o.s.]

Yup, but if stopped talking to everyone I had disagreed with at one time or another on CB I would miss out on some very enlightening dialogs. 

[GratefulCs]

Think about it.  Andrew Wiggins netted Lebron james.  Marcus could equal someone like Cousins but even still.  We aren't trying to be the Cavaliers. We are trying to beat them.

Riight now we have so many picks we can keep Marcus and do other things.

What on earth are you talking about.

Cleveland doesnt trade Wiggins unless it nets them Lebron james.  That's how it went down or did you forget?

The Cavs had Wiggins and Lebron on the roster at the same time.

definitely true



But in his 'going home' letter he omitted wiggins's name. And that ain't no accident



Wiggins as a trade chip for love was a big reason he went back, in my opinion

[DraftSmart33]

Am I the only one who thinks this draft is tremendously overrated?  I think there's 3 good players and a bunch of mediocrity.  I like last year's draft more... even now.

And the funny thing, it doesn't even sound like the experts think this is a better draft.  They had 9 guys in the top tiers last year...  5 this year.   And yet people talk about it like it's loaded with talent.  I don't really agree. 

Anyways... I'd trade the entire team and most of our picks for Cousins.   I don't know if that's the best offer, but as long as we still have room for two max contracts when the dust settles, I'm all-in baby.   This team is loaded with role players.  There isn't a single guy on this roster that is a bonafied NBA starter.

I think this draft is much better through the first 15

1. Wiggins and Towns (I'd take Towns)
2. Parker and Okafur (I'd take Ok)
3. Embid and Russel (I would have taken Embid but not now)
4. Gordon and Porzingas (the Euro)
5. Exum and Winslow (Winslow by a mile)
6. Smart and Mudiay (Mudiay)
7. Randle and Herzonja (Herzonja)
8. Stauskas and Johnson (Stanley)
9. Vonleh and WCS (Willie)
10. Payton and Turner (Payton all the way)
11. McBuckets and Booker (Booker)
12. Saric and Fran the Tank (Saric)
13. Lavine and Oubre (Wash)
14. Warren and Payne (Payne)
15. Payne and Portis (Portis)

I think the next five favor this years draft as well....your thoughts?

[jambr380]

Am I the only one who thinks this draft is tremendously overrated?  I think there's 3 good players and a bunch of mediocrity.  I like last year's draft more... even now.

And the funny thing, it doesn't even sound like the experts think this is a better draft.  They had 9 guys in the top tiers last year...  5 this year.   And yet people talk about it like it's loaded with talent.  I don't really agree. 

Anyways... I'd trade the entire team and most of our picks for Cousins.   I don't know if that's the best offer, but as long as we still have room for two max contracts when the dust settles, I'm all-in baby.   This team is loaded with role players.  There isn't a single guy on this roster that is a bonafied NBA starter.

I think this draft is much better through the first 15

1. Wiggins and Towns (I'd take Towns)
2. Parker and Okafur (I'd take Ok)
3. Embid and Russel (I would have taken Embid but not now)
4. Gordon and Porzingas (the Euro)
5. Exum and Winslow (Winslow by a mile)
6. Smart and Mudiay (Mudiay)
7. Randle and Herzonja (Herzonja)
8. Stauskas and Johnson (Stanley)
9. Vonleh and WCS (Willie)
10. Payton and Turner (Payton all the way)
11. McBuckets and Booker (Booker)
12. Saric and Fran the Tank (Saric)
13. Lavine and Oubre (Wash)
14. Warren and Payne (Payne)
15. Payne and Portis (Portis)

I think the next five favor this years draft as well....your thoughts?

It is fairly easy in hindsight of last year's draft and on the eve of this year's. Before last year's draft, it was assumed that all of the top 8 (Stauskas was a surprise, was expected to be Vonleh) would be an all-stars. Obviously that hasn't panned out...yet. LarBrd and others have done a pretty good job discussing the 'tiers' of this year and last year. Even though these guys seem like they are going to be all-time greats, it doesn't change the fact that last year's draft was 'supposed' to be once in a generation (or close to it).

[DraftSmart33]

I agree that hindsight makes it much easier to judge last years players verses this years speculation, but regardless this is a deeper draft.  Many of the so called draft experts agree...but they also agree that this draft falls apart around 23 or 24.

[saltlover]

Am I the only one who thinks this draft is tremendously overrated?  I think there's 3 good players and a bunch of mediocrity.  I like last year's draft more... even now.

And the funny thing, it doesn't even sound like the experts think this is a better draft.  They had 9 guys in the top tiers last year...  5 this year.   And yet people talk about it like it's loaded with talent.  I don't really agree. 

Anyways... I'd trade the entire team and most of our picks for Cousins.   I don't know if that's the best offer, but as long as we still have room for two max contracts when the dust settles, I'm all-in baby.   This team is loaded with role players.  There isn't a single guy on this roster that is a bonafied NBA starter.

I think this draft is much better through the first 15

1. Wiggins and Towns (I'd take Towns)
2. Parker and Okafur (I'd take Ok)
3. Embid and Russel (I would have taken Embid but not now)
4. Gordon and Porzingas (the Euro)
5. Exum and Winslow (Winslow by a mile)
6. Smart and Mudiay (Mudiay)
7. Randle and Herzonja (Herzonja)
8. Stauskas and Johnson (Stanley)
9. Vonleh and WCS (Willie)
10. Payton and Turner (Payton all the way)
11. McBuckets and Booker (Booker)
12. Saric and Fran the Tank (Saric)
13. Lavine and Oubre (Wash)
14. Warren and Payne (Payne)
15. Payne and Portis (Portis)

I think the next five favor this years draft as well....your thoughts?

You're definitely letting hindsight and unblemished potential colour your ratings.  Consider that Porzingis and Stein were both considered to be in the 15-20 range last year, but this year are in the top 5-10.  The NBA exposes warts.  Injuries also happen, and affected a lot of players last year.  With the exception of Embiid, they were all healthy entering the draft.  This year's draft will have similar lack of immediate impact.

Also, I'd without question take Wiggins before Towns, and Parker before Okafor.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Yeah I really love Marcus i do, but If we landed Demarcus and he had to go i'm sorry but you have to do it. With our Trade Exceptions and cap space we should be able to move on. I have the dream scenario of landing Boogie and getting either LMA or Love.

That would be the bomb-diggety. I'm tired of small-ball lineups, which only get you so far. Some will point to this year's Warriors to prove me wrong, but even though GS had some success with small ball, they still utilized David Lee and Festus Ezeli quite a bit, as the team got steamrolled whenever Draymond Green tried playing center against legit bigs such as Timofey Mozgov and Tristan Thompson.

I want frontcourt dominance. Now!!! 

Yeah they got steamrolled by Mozgov's 28-10 performance... in a game that they (GS) won by 20 points.

I figured someone would bring that up. But GS led by only 6 after three quarters; they basically just wore down the shorthanded Cavs in the fourth. But two bigs like that on a legit team (not a one-man LeBron show) would wreak some serious havoc with any opponent. I'll still take legit size over any small-ball lineup.

[fairweatherfan]

Yeah I really love Marcus i do, but If we landed Demarcus and he had to go i'm sorry but you have to do it. With our Trade Exceptions and cap space we should be able to move on. I have the dream scenario of landing Boogie and getting either LMA or Love.

That would be the bomb-diggety. I'm tired of small-ball lineups, which only get you so far. Some will point to this year's Warriors to prove me wrong, but even though GS had some success with small ball, they still utilized David Lee and Festus Ezeli quite a bit, as the team got steamrolled whenever Draymond Green tried playing center against legit bigs such as Timofey Mozgov and Tristan Thompson.

I want frontcourt dominance. Now!!! 

Yeah they got steamrolled by Mozgov's 28-10 performance... in a game that they (GS) won by 20 points.

I figured someone would bring that up. But GS led by only 6 after three quarters; they basically just wore down the shorthanded Cavs in the fourth. But two bigs like that on a legit team (not a one-man LeBron show) would wreak some serious havoc with any opponent. I'll still take legit size over any small-ball lineup.

So a legit team with two really good bigs would be preferable to Golden State-style small ball?  Like, say, Memphis?

[D.o.s.]

Yeah I really love Marcus i do, but If we landed Demarcus and he had to go i'm sorry but you have to do it. With our Trade Exceptions and cap space we should be able to move on. I have the dream scenario of landing Boogie and getting either LMA or Love.

That would be the bomb-diggety. I'm tired of small-ball lineups, which only get you so far. Some will point to this year's Warriors to prove me wrong, but even though GS had some success with small ball, they still utilized David Lee and Festus Ezeli quite a bit, as the team got steamrolled whenever Draymond Green tried playing center against legit bigs such as Timofey Mozgov and Tristan Thompson.

I want frontcourt dominance. Now!!! 

Yeah they got steamrolled by Mozgov's 28-10 performance... in a game that they (GS) won by 20 points.

I figured someone would bring that up. But GS led by only 6 after three quarters; they basically just wore down the shorthanded Cavs in the fourth. But two bigs like that on a legit team (not a one-man LeBron show) would wreak some serious havoc with any opponent. I'll still take legit size over any small-ball lineup.

So a legit team with two really good bigs would be preferable to Golden State-style small ball?  Like, say, Memphis?

I think that series is a lot more competitive with a healthy Mike Conley and Tony Allen, though.

[ThaPreacher]

I'd give up any three players on the team and a handful of draft picks for Cousins.  He's the best center in the league, he's 24 years old, and he's on a reasonable contract.  He is much, much better than any asset we have on our squad.

Does that mean we resign Rondo when Avery and Marcus are gone ?   

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Yeah I really love Marcus i do, but If we landed Demarcus and he had to go i'm sorry but you have to do it. With our Trade Exceptions and cap space we should be able to move on. I have the dream scenario of landing Boogie and getting either LMA or Love.

That would be the bomb-diggety. I'm tired of small-ball lineups, which only get you so far. Some will point to this year's Warriors to prove me wrong, but even though GS had some success with small ball, they still utilized David Lee and Festus Ezeli quite a bit, as the team got steamrolled whenever Draymond Green tried playing center against legit bigs such as Timofey Mozgov and Tristan Thompson.

I want frontcourt dominance. Now!!! 

Yeah they got steamrolled by Mozgov's 28-10 performance... in a game that they (GS) won by 20 points.

I figured someone would bring that up. But GS led by only 6 after three quarters; they basically just wore down the shorthanded Cavs in the fourth. But two bigs like that on a legit team (not a one-man LeBron show) would wreak some serious havoc with any opponent. I'll still take legit size over any small-ball lineup.

So a legit team with two really good bigs would be preferable to Golden State-style small ball?  Like, say, Memphis?

I think that series is a lot more competitive with a healthy Mike Conley and Tony Allen, though.

Yeah, they're a shooter away from a title IMO. Assuming they're healthy of course(relatively as nobody is in the playoffs).

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Yeah I really love Marcus i do, but If we landed Demarcus and he had to go i'm sorry but you have to do it. With our Trade Exceptions and cap space we should be able to move on. I have the dream scenario of landing Boogie and getting either LMA or Love.

That would be the bomb-diggety. I'm tired of small-ball lineups, which only get you so far. Some will point to this year's Warriors to prove me wrong, but even though GS had some success with small ball, they still utilized David Lee and Festus Ezeli quite a bit, as the team got steamrolled whenever Draymond Green tried playing center against legit bigs such as Timofey Mozgov and Tristan Thompson.

I want frontcourt dominance. Now!!! 

Yeah they got steamrolled by Mozgov's 28-10 performance... in a game that they (GS) won by 20 points.

I figured someone would bring that up. But GS led by only 6 after three quarters; they basically just wore down the shorthanded Cavs in the fourth. But two bigs like that on a legit team (not a one-man LeBron show) would wreak some serious havoc with any opponent. I'll still take legit size over any small-ball lineup.

So a legit team with two really good bigs would be preferable to Golden State-style small ball?  Like, say, Memphis?

When I said "a legit team," I meant just that—a team full of good-to-great all-around players, not a team with a major offensive handicap (Tony Allen) and no legit wing threats. I also pointed out that GS didn't always go with small ball, often using David Lee or Festus Ezeli during key stretches. Not to mention the fact that "center" Draymond Green got murdered.

Using small-ball lineups is different from being a small-ball team; some teams have won titles utilizing the former, but no team (at least in recent memory) has ever won a title as the latter.

[walker834]

I think we are going to trade up and get a player to go with Smart.  I think that's the smartest course of action.  Possibly trade for or sign a player later on.  I don't think Cousins is happening at least not now but could be wrong.

If it equals cousins tomorrow something to think about though.  I don't want to trade Smart. I'll be the first to admit that.

Cousins is a beast. There is no denying that.  I just am not going to sell the farm for him today.

[GreenWarrior]

I'm pretty convinced we aren't getting Cousins. knowing that we made Smart available for Noel, I think it's pretty safe to assume we made an offer that included Smart for Cousins.

and if trading all our assets does get us Cousins, what's the point if we don't have other players to surround him with?