Would you give up AB + 16 to get into the top 10 ?

[LilRip]

depends on who we're going to get. I love watching AB play though. IMO, he's an elite role player in the sense that he fills his role very well. It's only when he's asked to do things outside of his skillset (e.g. playmaking, ballhandling, etc.) that he looks like an extremely limited player.

Someone brought up Danny Green and co. If Danny Green were on this Celtics squad, he'd look like an extremely limited bench player as well. Put AB on the Spurs and I'm sure he'd flourish.

[BornReady]

Depends whose available

If top 8 prospects (except hezonja) or Stanley Johnson are still there
Will only trade up at least to 8 or 9 not 10

[Rida]

I would give AB away for nothing just to get hit salary off the books.

Not a fan of his game and he's redundant with Smart and Thomas on this team, i'd prefer to take his money and give it to Wes Matthews or Danny Green

[Who]

What is the point in talking about Bradley being a 16-17ppg per 36 scorer?

Avery Bradley has shown himself incapable of playing 36 minutes a night without a large drop-off in his defensive energy. 30-32 minutes is the most Bradley has shown himself able to play without losing too much defensive value. Bradley is a 14-15ppg in 30-32mpg while playing on one of the weaker offensive teams in the league with no real go-to guys. On a superior offensive team, Bradley would get less touches and less shot attempts. More of a 12ppg scorer in 30-32mpg on a top team.

[Birdman]

depends who is available but I wouldn't do it unless it involve Okafor or Towns

[Chief]

What is the point in talking about Bradley being a 16-17ppg per 36 scorer?

Avery Bradley has shown himself incapable of playing 36 minutes a night without a large drop-off in his defensive energy. 30-32 minutes is the most Bradley has shown himself able to play without losing too much defensive value. Bradley is a 14-15ppg in 30-32mpg while playing on one of the weaker offensive teams in the league with no real go-to guys. On a superior offensive team, Bradley would get less touches and less shot attempts. More of a 12ppg scorer in 30-32mpg on a top team.

Even more importantly, he has rarely played well in the playoffs.

[Greyman]

I'm not in because I'm not sure there is a player after 5 or 6 who is value for AB and 16. AB fits well with what CBS is doing and, despite his shortcomings, still has a skill set it would be difficult to replace. The 16 pick will still be a valuable asset, this draft is deep and CBS will have a better handle on the available players than most NBA coaches.

Moreover, you can trade up without trading AB. We have other assets who I would be more comfortable losing (Turner and Zeller for instance) who could be coupled with the 16 pick for a move up. Not that I don't value those guys, you just have to move assets to improve your roster and some players need upgrading more than others. I see AB contributing more on a competitive team than other players on the present squad who could still attract attention from other teams.

Is there a player in the top 6 worth the deal? Definitely if they become the elite franchise player you need. I think there are only two players you could confidently predict that for, and even then it isn't definite at the NBA level.

I want a lot to let go of AB and a lot more to include the 16th pick in a deep draft.

[gpap]

sry he is a 3+d role player with a 1 dribble jumper . Other than that tell me what he does above average ?

He can't create offense, and has 2 shots he is decent at 3pt shooting and long 2 pt shots )

He can't get to the rim, doesn't have a floater ,

Again, Bradley averaged 17 Points Per 36 while shooting 39% from three.  This year he averaged around 16 Points Per 36 while shooting around 35% from three. 

That's two seasons in a row that Bradley has put up Tobias Harris type scoring numbers - the type of numbers you expect from a #3 scoring option on a 3rd of 4th seed Eastern Conference playoff team.

Look at all of the Eastern Conference Playoff teams this year - outside of Cleveland (obviously) and maybe Chicago, which of those teams had a #3 scoring option who averaged significantly better than 17 points per 36 on 35%-39% three point shooting?

I'd say not many.

Avery Bradley is by no means an elite scorer - he's not a guy who can carry a team night in, night out with his scoring because he's just not skilled or consistent enough.  He is, however, a good offensive player and a pretty capable scorer.

Again, you just don't put up 17 Pts Per 36 on 44% / 39% / 80% shooting as a guard in this league unless you're a pretty capable scorer.  NBA defense is not that forgiving. 

can't guard legit guards with 6'5 or taller,

His defensive efforts against Dwyane Wade (back when Wade was in his prime) would suggest otherwise.  If you check Wade's college measurements he's 6'5" and 220 pounds with around a  6'10" wingspan and (in his prime) elite athleticism.

Most Cetics fans will probably recall that Bradley gave Wade a LOT trouble in a past matchups.   

is a turnover machine if he takes more than 1 or 2 dribbles , can't pass .

If you use the term 'turnover machine' in connection with Avery Bradley in any possible way, then you immediately lose all credibility by jumping on the 'make up random crap to diss Bradley' bandwagon that so many CB people love to jump on.

With the exception of his rookie year (where he barely played and was incredibly raw) Bradley has never averaged more than 2 Turnovers Per 36 Minutes in his entire career.  Over the past three seasons he averaged 1.8, 1.9 and 1.6 TO Per 36.  Those are VERY low numbers for a starting guard who is a #2 scoring option for his team, and who has the ball in his hands as often as Bradley does. 

Bradley is needs to improve his passing and ball handling to elevate his game to the next level, we all know that.  But labeling him as a turnover machine is just plain wrong.  His career TO rate (which measures turnovers relative to the number of possessions a player has) of 11.1% is actually extremely good, as can be seen via the link below:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/tov_pct_career.html

Bradley's career number of 11.1% is on par with Danny Granger, who ranks who ranks top 80 all-time) in turnover percentage. 

His numbers over the past two seasons (9.9 and 9.4) are exceptional and up there with some of the very lowest numbers in history. 

Avery Bradley turnovers are dramatically overblown based on the fact that most of the time when he DOES turn the ball over, it's due to unforced error - a bad dribble, a bad pass, etc.  Because of that every time he makes a turnover, it stands out more than with other guys.  However if you actually really watch him play and look at the NUMBER of turnovers he gets, it's actually extremely low.

If you want to use the term ' Turnover machine' that you should save that for somebody like Evan Turner, who's turnover percentage of 19.7% is just downright frightening.

We can easily replace him through free agency or trades .

Avery Bradley is:

1) A former All-Defensive team selection and top 12 defender at his position (according to Defensive RPM stat)

2) Averaged 16 Point Per 36 on 43% / 35% / 79% shooting

3) Averaged only 1.6 Turnovers Per 36 on a turnover rate of 9.6%

4) Averaged 3.5 Rebounds Per 36

5) Is an excellent-to-elite athletic

6) Is 6'3" with a 6'7" wingspan

7) Is 24.2 years old

Off you go, find me a player we can gain (either through trade or free agency) who you believe we have a legit ability to acquire and who can meet or exceed all of the above criteria. 

In fact since you said easily acquire, find me five.

Danny Green
Afflalo
wes Matthews

all could easily replace bradley and probably be an upgrade this off-season

Just off the top of my head.

I am not saying Bradley is a bad player , he is just a bench player IMO  and too limited offensively and too undersized defensively  to be a starter on a contending team .

plus you have to take the free throw shooting for what it is, he averages 1 ft attempt per game for his career.

All of them older... 3.5-5 years older.

All of them potentially will be more expensive than Bradley.

Matthews will be 29 by the start of the season, and and teared his Achilles tendon. Is that someone you want to invest in?

Afflalo had quite a down year last season, worse than Bradley and having a good role in Portland, he'll be 30 by the start of the season. Not sure that's where I want to look for. Though it's a good fallback option if you manage to bring in other talent by trading Bradley. But even so...

Green, will be 28 by the start of the season and his success with the Spurs will surely find him getting a pretty good contract somewhere. I'd honestly would be very very very cautious of throwing money at him. He seems to me like the player that has benefited a great deal from Pop's great system, and I think if he leaves that environment he'll find himself struggling. That's my opinion though. But certainly an option like explained with Afflalo if you manage to get value for Bradley.

Of course, the old important factor of these players actually wanting to come here... and the aforementioned price tag, all potentially more expensive than Bradley (who's locked in on a [dang] good contract for a few years more).

All in all, the only player of those 3 that I might be tempted by would be Matthews, but the Achilles tendon is a no-go for me, and I think his price tag will be quite steep as well.

Younger doesn't always mean better. You're thinking way too much about age and who the younger player is.

Also, I'd rather have Green, Afflalo and especially Wes Matthews over Bradley.

Players do recover from injuries and personally, I have no reason to believe Matthews won't be 100 percent come opening night.

I am just not a big Bradley fan. He improved his shot this year but is still to streaky for me and was awful in the playoffs. We need a more consistent shooter.

[gpap]

sry he is a 3+d role player with a 1 dribble jumper . Other than that tell me what he does above average ?

He can't create offense, and has 2 shots he is decent at 3pt shooting and long 2 pt shots )

He can't get to the rim, doesn't have a floater ,

Again, Bradley averaged 17 Points Per 36 while shooting 39% from three.  This year he averaged around 16 Points Per 36 while shooting around 35% from three. 

That's two seasons in a row that Bradley has put up Tobias Harris type scoring numbers - the type of numbers you expect from a #3 scoring option on a 3rd of 4th seed Eastern Conference playoff team.

Look at all of the Eastern Conference Playoff teams this year - outside of Cleveland (obviously) and maybe Chicago, which of those teams had a #3 scoring option who averaged significantly better than 17 points per 36 on 35%-39% three point shooting?

I'd say not many.

Avery Bradley is by no means an elite scorer - he's not a guy who can carry a team night in, night out with his scoring because he's just not skilled or consistent enough.  He is, however, a good offensive player and a pretty capable scorer.

Again, you just don't put up 17 Pts Per 36 on 44% / 39% / 80% shooting as a guard in this league unless you're a pretty capable scorer.  NBA defense is not that forgiving. 

can't guard legit guards with 6'5 or taller,

His defensive efforts against Dwyane Wade (back when Wade was in his prime) would suggest otherwise. 

The NBA lists Wade at 6'4" but if you check Wade's college measurements he actually measured 6' 4.75" (so realistically, closer to 6'5") with a 6' 10.5" wingspan.  During their best battles Wade was still in his prime, during which he was an elite athlete and (at around 225 pounds) one of the most physically imposing guards of the past decade.

I think many Cetics fans will probably recall that Bradley has given him a LOT trouble in a past matchups.   

is a turnover machine if he takes more than 1 or 2 dribbles , can't pass .

If you use the term 'turnover machine' in connection with Avery Bradley in any possible way, then you immediately lose all credibility by jumping on the 'make up random crap to diss Bradley' bandwagon that so many CB people love to jump on.

With the exception of his rookie year (where he barely played and was incredibly raw) Bradley has never averaged more than 2 Turnovers Per 36 Minutes in his entire career.  Over the past three seasons he averaged 1.8, 1.9 and 1.6 TO Per 36.  Those are VERY low numbers for a starting guard who is a #2 scoring option for his team, and who has the ball in his hands as often as Bradley does. 

Bradley is needs to improve his passing and ball handling to elevate his game to the next level, we all know that.  But labeling him as a turnover machine is just plain wrong.  His career TO rate (which measures turnovers relative to the number of possessions a player has) of 11.1% is actually extremely good, as can be seen via the link below:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/tov_pct_career.html

Bradley's career number of 11.1% is on par with Danny Granger, who ranks who ranks top 80 all-time) in turnover percentage. 

His numbers over the past two seasons (9.9 and 9.4) are exceptional and up there with some of the very lowest numbers in history. 

Avery Bradley turnovers are dramatically overblown based on the fact that most of the time when he DOES turn the ball over, it's due to unforced error - a bad dribble, a bad pass, etc.  Because of that every time he makes a turnover, it stands out more than with other guys.  However if you actually really watch him play and look at the NUMBER of turnovers he gets, it's actually extremely low.

If you want to use the term ' Turnover machine' that you should save that for somebody like Evan Turner, who's turnover percentage of 19.7% is just downright frightening.

We can easily replace him through free agency or trades .

Avery Bradley is:

1) A former All-Defensive team selection and top 12 defender at his position (according to Defensive RPM stat)

2) Averaged 16 Point Per 36 on 43% / 35% / 79% shooting

3) Averaged only 1.6 Turnovers Per 36 on a turnover rate of 9.6%

4) Averaged 3.5 Rebounds Per 36

5) Is an excellent-to-elite athletic

6) Is 6'3" with a 6'7" wingspan

7) Is 24.2 years old

Off you go, find me a player we can gain (either through trade or free agency) who you believe we have a legit ability to acquire and who can meet or exceed all of the above criteria. 

In fact since you said easily acquire, find me five.

You are REALLY overrating Bradley.

[gpap]

This site over values draft picks. Bradley's going nowhere.

this site over values 3+d role players

Avery Bradley is not (by definition of the term) a 3+D role player, so your argument is invalid.

The perfect example of a 3+D player is Bruce Bowen.  He had zero ZERO offensive game outside of their ability to knock down threes, as evidenced by the fact that he shot 39% from three for his career, yet averaged only 8 points per 36 minutes.    Almost half (46%) of all his career field goal attempts were three point shots.  71% of his 2 point shots were assisted, and 99% of his 3 point shots were assisted - he was ultimately completely incapable of creating offense.

He was a '3+d' player because he was a pure role players who's only talents were lock down defense and knocking down spot up threes.

This is vastly different to Avery Bradley who's averages of 17 and 16 points per 36 over the past two seasons indicate that he is clearly more than just a spot up three point shooter on offense.  As does the fact that only about 50% of his field goal attempts were assisted - so he's actually quite capable of creating his own offense. 

So again, Avery Bradley is NOT a 3+D role player.  He'd a good defender and he's a solid three point shooter, but that's not ALL he does.

sry he is a 3+d role player with a 1 dribble jumper . Other than that tell me what he does above average ?

He can't create offense, and has 2 shots he is decent at 3pt shooting and long 2 pt shots )

He can't get to the rim, doesn't have a floater , can't guard legit guards with 6'5 or taller, is a turnover machine if he takes more than 1 or 2 dribbles , can't pass .

We can easily replace him through free agency or trades .

Well said Rondohondo.  Bradley is by no means irreplaceable. He's also not someone I'd want starting in a 7 game series. He just doesn't have "it" factor you want your shooting guards to have like Ray Allen did with the Celtics where Ray just kinda had ice cold water running through his veins.  Bradley sometimes looks like a deer in the headlights and was awful in the playoffs. As a backup, maybe, but I just don't think Bradley should be our starting 2.

I also can't believe some would rather have Bradley than Wes Matthews.

[gpap]

What is the point in talking about Bradley being a 16-17ppg per 36 scorer?

Avery Bradley has shown himself incapable of playing 36 minutes a night without a large drop-off in his defensive energy. 30-32 minutes is the most Bradley has shown himself able to play without losing too much defensive value. Bradley is a 14-15ppg in 30-32mpg while playing on one of the weaker offensive teams in the league with no real go-to guys. On a superior offensive team, Bradley would get less touches and less shot attempts. More of a 12ppg scorer in 30-32mpg on a top team.

Even more importantly, he has rarely played well in the playoffs.

EXACTLY!!!

[gpap]

I think this is way to steep. I say trade AB for Whiteside and 10.

Lol, why on earth would Miami do this?

[oldtype]

It's interesting to think where this could possibly land us. I don't think AB is good enough to get us 1~4, and Orlando at 5 probably has no interest in AB.

Sacramento has McLemore so I don't think they'd be interested. Ditto Denver because they're in rebuild mode.

Detroit at 8, Charlotte at 9, and perhaps Miami at 10 all seem like solid possibilities, but at that point is the pick even worth dumping both AB and 16? Maybe if someone we really like such as WCS is available on draft night. Otherwise, I don't think so.

[Boris Badenov]

Bradley is only 4 years older than most guys in this draft and he still has a lot of upside despite what he has already accomplished.

Bradley has zero upside, he is what he is , a 3+d role player . If you can't dribble , pass , reboud , or create a shot other than a 1 dribble J 5+ seasons into your career, it's not going to happen .

That is ridiculous.  Players improve constantly well into their early 30's.  What is Bradley, 25ish?  He isn't even in his prime years yet, which would be around 27-33.   Look at Jordan, he took five years to get to 30ppg, then in year 7 is when he really took off.  You mean he wasn't getting better.  His 13th year was his best scoring wise.

Errr....Jordan's scoring peak (37ppg) was in his second full season, when he was 23. His best statistical seasons came between 23 and 26. He didn't "take off" in year 7, he scored less than he'd done in the previous four years. And his 13th year wasn't his "best scoring wise," it was worse than any of his previous nine healthy seasons.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

You're also incorrect about when players peak. Most studies find that 24-25 is the peak. Here's one example.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703478704574612553424283372

Bradley is, if he follows the typical course of events, unlikely to improve from this point onward.

[PhoSita]

I'd do it without thinking twice.

Bradley is what he is -- borderline starter.  Doesn't have the kind of size or ball-handling / playmaking ability that I'd like the Celtics to have at the two-guard, especially playing next to Smart.

His scoring is fine, for what it is.  The issue for me is that he doesn't add much else in other areas, and his defense is fairly matchup dependent due to his size.