Sources: 76ers center Joel Embiid suffers setback with right foot

[LarBrd33]

Eddie you're trolling.  We will see what happens in a couple weeks.  If I'm wrong, I'll admit that I should have ignored every legitimate report and joined in with the conspiracy theorist palm-readers like yourself who interpreted "hasn't healed as quickly as expected" to mean, "he needs surgery".

Again, the irony. I'm "trolling", but you're the one waving the pom pomps on all things Sixers, Hinkie, Embiid, Noel, #3 pick, etc. on a C E L T I C S site.

I didn't start this thread.  If you have a problem with someone clarifying inaccurate opinions, start your own forum and ban people who don't think exactly like you.

Innaccurate? How do you know? Are you in the Sixers inner circle of medical consultants? What we do know is that he's sustained two different stress fractures, in a span of about 3 months, and the foot fracture is still not 100%. He's been shutdown from all basketball activity and they brought in 3 more doctors for opinion. If you think that's great news then so be it, but please don't act as your skewed opinion is a voice of reason.

Someone here claimed embiid was in a wheelchair.  The consensus here seems to be that embiid is going to need surgery because of his "set back".  This isn't an accurate representation of the situation as we know it right now.  I'm happy to clarify misinformation by sharing what philly has actually said.  I respect it if you want to come out with a conspiracy theory that claims that philly is withholding the truth and they are aware that embiid's situation is worse than they are letting on. Go ahead and pump up that conspiracy theory and I'll respect that you've taken a wild stance.  Just make sure you clarify that your conspiracy theory is rooted in baseless speculation and hunches.   When you cut through the speculation, the reality is that philly has said a routine checkup revealed less healing than they hoped at this point.  Seeing as all they have said is that it hasn't healed as quickly as they hoped, I don't see reason to panic.   Id give up smart, 16 and 28 for him right now based on the info I've read.  Possibly even more than that. 

[Eja117]

I am fine with saying I speculate that he is the next Oden and that this is based on a hunch (as well as comparisons to Oden's timeline of not playing and then playing). Not a doctor. Not a doctor. Just a hunch.

[LarBrd33]

I am fine with saying I speculate that he is the next Oden and that this is based on a hunch (as well as comparisons to Oden's timeline of not playing and then playing). Not a doctor. Not a doctor. Just a hunch.

it seems they are trying to prevent the oden situation ... Which is why Nerlens noel was kept out far longer than he needed... And why they are doing the same with embiid now.  A lot of people think oden was rushed back too soon and it cost him his career. 

The team has spent months telling everyone that embiid was definitely playing in summer league. Now he gets a routine checkup and they still aren't seeing it as fully healed.  They are having him slow down.  It's a set back... But whether or not it's a major set back or just a natural part of the recovery process is up for interpretation, I guess.  It's up for interpretation for a "couple weeks" and then they will probably publicly clarify his status heading forward.

As much as I have to agree the "draft posturing" theory is a little outlandish, I do agree that it's in philly's best interest to keep embiid's status questionable until after the draft. It  might not make a difference, but it doesn't help them at all to come out and say "embiid is good to go" when they are exploring draft day trade scenarios.   Even a tiny bit of leverage is leverage... And when all signs pointed to them taking Russell, it limited their options a bit.  At least now they can threaten to take pozingus (or a slipping Okafor in a very unlikely situation) and people will believe them when they claim they need a third big man.  The reaction in this thread proves it's believable.  So if they take a big (but really want to trade down for mudiay) they don't have to deal with GM's who say, "lol you obviously need a guard... There's no way you are keeping all three bigs."

[Eja117]

I'm not sure but I think I agree with you that a little pre draft gamesmanship was a good move on Phily's part in this case. But I also think it's a little odd to sorta publicly devalue the value of one of their major assets. Maybe if he were to be traded there would have to be a physical anyway and this way they can sorta control the message.

I admit it's fair to sorta wait till all the facts are out. I will broadly classify this as "Not good and scary" but I won't exactly call him a cripple whose career is over. Ilgauskas was bigger and older....and even though it took a loooooonnnggg time he eventually beat this kinda stuff and went to an all star game.

Yao....problems all the time...but multiple all star games. Maybe it will end up being more like that

[SHAQATTACK]

Hope he doesn't have

Marfans syndrome

[LarBrd33]

I'm not sure but I think I agree with you that a little pre draft gamesmanship was a good move on Phily's part in this case. But I also think it's a little odd to sorta publicly devalue the value of one of their major assets. Maybe if he were to be traded there would have to be a physical anyway and this way they can sorta control the message.

I admit it's fair to sorta wait till all the facts are out. I will broadly classify this as "Not good and scary" but I won't exactly call him a cripple whose career is over. Ilgauskas was bigger and older....and even though it took a loooooonnnggg time he eventually beat this kinda stuff and went to an all star game.

Yao....problems all the time...but multiple all star games. Maybe it will end up being more like that

Embiid is the face of their franchise. They expect him to develop into a megastar.  He was considered by scouts to be by far the best prospect heading into the draft.  If he pans out for them, he's there for the next 15+ years.  If they were concerned about devaluing him as an asset, they wouldn't have publicly commented about his work ethic and weight as a means of motivating him.  If they were even slightly considering moving him, they keep those concerns in-house and trade him discretely.

Unless you assume that franchise is complete morons (which you'd be fair to assume, I guess) they aren't concerned with "devaluing" him because their is no chance they are trading a generational talent they expect to build their dynasty around.

[Eddie20]

I'm not sure but I think I agree with you that a little pre draft gamesmanship was a good move on Phily's part in this case. But I also think it's a little odd to sorta publicly devalue the value of one of their major assets. Maybe if he were to be traded there would have to be a physical anyway and this way they can sorta control the message.

I admit it's fair to sorta wait till all the facts are out. I will broadly classify this as "Not good and scary" but I won't exactly call him a cripple whose career is over. Ilgauskas was bigger and older....and even though it took a loooooonnnggg time he eventually beat this kinda stuff and went to an all star game.

Yao....problems all the time...but multiple all star games. Maybe it will end up being more like that

Embiid is the face of their franchise. They expect him to develop into a megastar.  He was considered by scouts to be by far the best prospect heading into the draft.  If he pans out for them, he's there for the next 15+ years.  If they were concerned about devaluing him as an asset, they wouldn't have publicly commented about his work ethic and weight as a means of motivating him.  If they were even slightly considering moving him, they keep those concerns in-house and trade him discretely.

Unless you assume that franchise is complete morons (which you'd be fair to assume, I guess) they aren't concerned with "devaluing" him because their is no chance they are trading a generational talent they expect to build their dynasty around.

I really doubt anyone, including you, really thinks that Embiid is going to have a 15 year NBA career. The guy had trouble getting through 15 games in college.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

As always, there are several levels to this debate.

1.  Literally anyone could do what Hinkie has done.  I could do it.  A ten year old could do it.  It doesn't take brains or wisdom or basketball knowledge.  It's the front office equivalent of flopping, trying to twist the rules to your advantage in a way that would damage the sport if everyone did it.

2.  Philly has now tanked for two straight years, both in-season and off-season, and it sure looks like a third is in the offing.  If all you've got for that is Noel and the #3 this year, a pick which some mock drafts have as Porzingis, that's horrible.

3.  I don't know what you mean by "foundational" when you use it to describe Noel.  Right now, the reasonable best case scenario for Noel is a more athletic Marcus Camby with better defense and less offense.  That would actually be a heck of a good player, but someone upon whom you build the "foundation" of a team?

Mike

Judging by Danny's actions over the past two seasons, tanking for phenom prospects is a lot harder than it seems.  Hinkie deserves credit for pulling it off.  Now we have to see how these kids perform long-term. Should be a fun team to watch heading forward.

And Ainge got his team back into the playoffs in the second year of a rebuild where he got rid of the four best veterans on his roster.  But somehow that's LESS impressive than what Hinkie has done?

Mike

Yeah, Ainge tried to tank and the team fell azz-backwards into a sub 500 playoff sweep.   Take both of these rosters as-is, sprinkle water on them and wait a couple years, I believe the 76ers are closer to contending.   

Free agency might impact both teams. But philly is closer to having a Superstar simply by having better prospects arguably with Superstar potential.

If Ainge was trying to tank, he wouldn't have added Zeller and Turner to the roster.  He wouldn't have waited so long to trade Green.  He wouldn't have signed Bradley to that extension.  He wouldn't have held on to Crowder.  He certainly wouldn't have traded for IT and if he was tanking, he sure as hell would have gotten rid of Bass for a 2nd rounder.

Ainge did not trade KG and Pierce in order to tank.  He traded them because he got a phenomenal offer from the Nets he would have been an idiot to turn down.  Even in the best case scenario for NJ where they win a title, they would still have been giving us at least one or two unprotected 1st rounders after KG and Pierce had retired.

Ainge didn't trade Rondo in order to tank.  He traded Rondo because the team sucked with him and Ainge was disappointed in his play and leadership and decided he didn't want to give him a big contract.

Getting rid of Green is the only tanking move Ainge has made.

If Ainge was tanking he wouldn't have made most of the moves he made.  If he was hyper-tanking like Hinkie, he would have traded KO and Sully.

Rebuilding is not the same thing as tanking, though both usually involve your team losing a lot of games.

Ainge has built a MUCH better team than Hinkie and Boston has MANY more ways to improve than Philly.  You don't have one intelligible argument to dispute that.  All you can do is repeat the same whine that it's possible things might turn out better for Philly at some undetermined point in some unspecified future.  That's the same logic people use to justify buying $50 in lottery tickets every week.

Mike

Sam Hinkie:
-Tried to sign Bradley this past offseason
-Didn't trade Jrue Holiday because he was tanking, he traded him because he got blown away by a ridiculous offer
-Was in on the IT trade until the Bucks/Suns deal became available
-Didn't trade MCW because he was tanking, he traded him because he was disappointed in his play and got a great offer

By your logic Hinkie isn't tanking. But he obviously is, so your argument doesn't really hold much water.

And seriously, Ainge isn't tanking because he signed a below average Turner and took on Zeller in a salary dump?

Please.

[Eja117]

I'm not sure but I think I agree with you that a little pre draft gamesmanship was a good move on Phily's part in this case. But I also think it's a little odd to sorta publicly devalue the value of one of their major assets. Maybe if he were to be traded there would have to be a physical anyway and this way they can sorta control the message.

I admit it's fair to sorta wait till all the facts are out. I will broadly classify this as "Not good and scary" but I won't exactly call him a cripple whose career is over. Ilgauskas was bigger and older....and even though it took a loooooonnnggg time he eventually beat this kinda stuff and went to an all star game.

Yao....problems all the time...but multiple all star games. Maybe it will end up being more like that

Embiid is the face of their franchise. They expect him to develop into a megastar.  He was considered by scouts to be by far the best prospect heading into the draft.  If he pans out for them, he's there for the next 15+ years.  If they were concerned about devaluing him as an asset, they wouldn't have publicly commented about his work ethic and weight as a means of motivating him.  If they were even slightly considering moving him, they keep those concerns in-house and trade him discretely.

Unless you assume that franchise is complete morons (which you'd be fair to assume, I guess) they aren't concerned with "devaluing" him because their is no chance they are trading a generational talent they expect to build their dynasty around.

I really doubt anyone, including you, really thinks that Embiid is going to have a 15 year NBA career. The guy had trouble getting through 15 games in college.

That's fair

[Eja117]

I'm not sure but I think I agree with you that a little pre draft gamesmanship was a good move on Phily's part in this case. But I also think it's a little odd to sorta publicly devalue the value of one of their major assets. Maybe if he were to be traded there would have to be a physical anyway and this way they can sorta control the message.

I admit it's fair to sorta wait till all the facts are out. I will broadly classify this as "Not good and scary" but I won't exactly call him a cripple whose career is over. Ilgauskas was bigger and older....and even though it took a loooooonnnggg time he eventually beat this kinda stuff and went to an all star game.

Yao....problems all the time...but multiple all star games. Maybe it will end up being more like that

Embiid is the face of their franchise. They expect him to develop into a megastar.  He was considered by scouts to be by far the best prospect heading into the draft.  If he pans out for them, he's there for the next 15+ years.  If they were concerned about devaluing him as an asset, they wouldn't have publicly commented about his work ethic and weight as a means of motivating him.  If they were even slightly considering moving him, they keep those concerns in-house and trade him discretely.

Unless you assume that franchise is complete morons (which you'd be fair to assume, I guess) they aren't concerned with "devaluing" him because their is no chance they are trading a generational talent they expect to build their dynasty around.

I think my only issue there is that there are also other generational talents...like maybe Jahil Okafor. And they're healthy.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

I'm not sure but I think I agree with you that a little pre draft gamesmanship was a good move on Phily's part in this case. But I also think it's a little odd to sorta publicly devalue the value of one of their major assets. Maybe if he were to be traded there would have to be a physical anyway and this way they can sorta control the message.

I admit it's fair to sorta wait till all the facts are out. I will broadly classify this as "Not good and scary" but I won't exactly call him a cripple whose career is over. Ilgauskas was bigger and older....and even though it took a loooooonnnggg time he eventually beat this kinda stuff and went to an all star game.

Yao....problems all the time...but multiple all star games. Maybe it will end up being more like that

Embiid is the face of their franchise. They expect him to develop into a megastar.  He was considered by scouts to be by far the best prospect heading into the draft.  If he pans out for them, he's there for the next 15+ years.  If they were concerned about devaluing him as an asset, they wouldn't have publicly commented about his work ethic and weight as a means of motivating him.  If they were even slightly considering moving him, they keep those concerns in-house and trade him discretely.

Unless you assume that franchise is complete morons (which you'd be fair to assume, I guess) they aren't concerned with "devaluing" him because their is no chance they are trading a generational talent they expect to build their dynasty around.

I think my only issue there is that there are also other generational talents...like maybe Jahil Okafor. And they're healthy.

I think Towns is legit, but Okafor is one of the worst defensive Centers in the draft...

[celticsclay]

Eddie you're trolling.  We will see what happens in a couple weeks.  If I'm wrong, I'll admit that I should have ignored every legitimate report and joined in with the conspiracy theorist palm-readers like yourself who interpreted "hasn't healed as quickly as expected" to mean, "he needs surgery".

Again, the irony. I'm "trolling", but you're the one waving the pom pomps on all things Sixers, Hinkie, Embiid, Noel, #3 pick, etc. on a C E L T I C S site.

I didn't start this thread.  If you have a problem with someone clarifying inaccurate opinions, start your own forum and ban people who don't think exactly like you.

Innaccurate? How do you know? Are you in the Sixers inner circle of medical consultants? What we do know is that he's sustained two different stress fractures, in a span of about 3 months, and the foot fracture is still not 100%. He's been shutdown from all basketball activity and they brought in 3 more doctors for opinion. If you think that's great news then so be it, but please don't act as your skewed opinion is a voice of reason.

Someone here claimed embiid was in a wheelchair. The consensus here seems to be that embiid is going to need surgery because of his "set back".  This isn't an accurate representation of the situation as we know it right now.  I'm happy to clarify misinformation by sharing what philly has actually said.  I respect it if you want to come out with a conspiracy theory that claims that philly is withholding the truth and they are aware that embiid's situation is worse than they are letting on. Go ahead and pump up that conspiracy theory and I'll respect that you've taken a wild stance.  Just make sure you clarify that your conspiracy theory is rooted in baseless speculation and hunches.   When you cut through the speculation, the reality is that philly has said a routine checkup revealed less healing than they hoped at this point.  Seeing as all they have said is that it hasn't healed as quickly as they hoped, I don't see reason to panic.   Id give up smart, 16 and 28 for him right now based on the info I've read.  Possibly even more than that.

Lol Lardbrd you had me laughing on that one. I was obviously joking. How can you use that as a serious point debating with these people. I am actually laughing out loud that you said that. Cheers

[D.o.s.]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

As always, there are several levels to this debate.

1.  Literally anyone could do what Hinkie has done.  I could do it.  A ten year old could do it.  It doesn't take brains or wisdom or basketball knowledge.  It's the front office equivalent of flopping, trying to twist the rules to your advantage in a way that would damage the sport if everyone did it.

2.  Philly has now tanked for two straight years, both in-season and off-season, and it sure looks like a third is in the offing.  If all you've got for that is Noel and the #3 this year, a pick which some mock drafts have as Porzingis, that's horrible.

3.  I don't know what you mean by "foundational" when you use it to describe Noel.  Right now, the reasonable best case scenario for Noel is a more athletic Marcus Camby with better defense and less offense.  That would actually be a heck of a good player, but someone upon whom you build the "foundation" of a team?

Mike

Judging by Danny's actions over the past two seasons, tanking for phenom prospects is a lot harder than it seems.  Hinkie deserves credit for pulling it off.  Now we have to see how these kids perform long-term. Should be a fun team to watch heading forward.

And Ainge got his team back into the playoffs in the second year of a rebuild where he got rid of the four best veterans on his roster.  But somehow that's LESS impressive than what Hinkie has done?

Mike

Yeah, Ainge tried to tank and the team fell azz-backwards into a sub 500 playoff sweep.   Take both of these rosters as-is, sprinkle water on them and wait a couple years, I believe the 76ers are closer to contending.   

Free agency might impact both teams. But philly is closer to having a Superstar simply by having better prospects arguably with Superstar potential.

If Ainge was trying to tank, he wouldn't have added Zeller and Turner to the roster.  He wouldn't have waited so long to trade Green.  He wouldn't have signed Bradley to that extension.  He wouldn't have held on to Crowder.  He certainly wouldn't have traded for IT and if he was tanking, he sure as hell would have gotten rid of Bass for a 2nd rounder.

Ainge did not trade KG and Pierce in order to tank.  He traded them because he got a phenomenal offer from the Nets he would have been an idiot to turn down.  Even in the best case scenario for NJ where they win a title, they would still have been giving us at least one or two unprotected 1st rounders after KG and Pierce had retired.

Ainge didn't trade Rondo in order to tank.  He traded Rondo because the team sucked with him and Ainge was disappointed in his play and leadership and decided he didn't want to give him a big contract.

Getting rid of Green is the only tanking move Ainge has made.

If Ainge was tanking he wouldn't have made most of the moves he made.  If he was hyper-tanking like Hinkie, he would have traded KO and Sully.

Rebuilding is not the same thing as tanking, though both usually involve your team losing a lot of games.

Ainge has built a MUCH better team than Hinkie and Boston has MANY more ways to improve than Philly.  You don't have one intelligible argument to dispute that.  All you can do is repeat the same whine that it's possible things might turn out better for Philly at some undetermined point in some unspecified future.  That's the same logic people use to justify buying $50 in lottery tickets every week.

Mike

Sam Hinkie:
-Tried to sign Bradley this past offseason
-Didn't trade Jrue Holiday because he was tanking, he traded him because he got blown away by a ridiculous offer
-Was in on the IT trade until the Bucks/Suns deal became available
-Didn't trade MCW because he was tanking, he traded him because he was disappointed in his play and got a great offer

By your logic Hinkie isn't tanking. But he obviously is, so your argument doesn't really hold much water.

And seriously, Ainge isn't tanking because he signed a below average Turner and took on Zeller in a salary dump?

Please.

I don't agree with Randy all the time, but this is a fairly correct assessment.

[GC003332]

Hopefully for Joel's sake he can resume normal activities soon enough and have a lengthy career in the league.
Not trying to be a wise guy but growing up in Cameroon is it possible that the vital calcium and vitamin d that people need for strong bones was not up to scratch.?
Yes he did live in Yaounde which is the second biggest city in Camerron, but depending where he got his dairy products delivered from could have impacted on the quality of his food.
Here is a study of milk from Cameroon.
http://www.sdiarticle1.org/prh/JSRR_22/2013/1377861327-7-Revised-manuscript_version2_templet.pdf
Interesting reading.
Also the average life expectancy living in Cameroon is roughly 54 years of age compared to 79 in the U.S. So that first 16 years living in Cameroon is more than a quarter of his life gone become he came to the U.S.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cameroon-life-expectancy
Interesting stuff.
As I said I hope he has a lengthy career in the NBA.
Is any of this stuff a factor in his overall health?

[Eddie20]

LarBrd33, now would you admit there is cause for concern? Unless they're still sending smokescreens or Embiid, apparently the ultimate team guy, is willing to sit out the year, under the false pretense of injury, for another high pick.


http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20150627_Embiid_s_last_CT_scan_raised_red_flag__Hinkie_says.html

The 76ers are close to making a decision that will dictate center Joel Embiid's immediate and long-term future, general manager Sam Hinkie said in a news conference Friday morning.

Hinkie said that another surgery has not been ruled out as an option, and that he can't see Embiid playing in either of the Sixers' two summer league teams.

Embiid, 21, missed all of what would have been his rookie season after surgery last June to repair the navicular bone in his right foot.

In March, nine months after his injury, Hinkie said Embiid had a CT scan that "looked right on schedule." Embiid started running, playing and doing more by the day, according to Hinkie.

Then Embiid underwent one more MRI as a precaution before summer league play.

"And it just looked different," Hinkie said, dropping his voice. ". . . And so it caused the surgeon to say, 'Well, that's different, that's different. What is that?' So let's get to the bottom of this, and that's the thing we've been working on."

Embiid was the third overall pick in the draft last year after playing one injury-shortened season at Kansas.

"He feels really good. That's part of what makes this - maybe confusing's the right word - confusing for him," Hinkie said, adding that Embiid is symptom-free. "Maybe confusing because he feels great, in fact he says, like, 'I can't believe how good I feel. I felt great for a while.' It seems hard to believe someone could be wrong."

Hinkie said that he had a meeting about Embiid on Friday morning and that the next step is to consult surgeon Robert Anderson in Charlotte, N.C. Hinkie said a decision on Embiid's treatment will include input from Embiid's representatives, the team's performance staff and medical experts.