Sources: 76ers center Joel Embiid suffers setback with right foot

[LarBrd33]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

How much better do you think Noel is compared to WCS. They are both athletic bigs from Kentucky who are tremendous defenders, bad offensive players, and surprisingly ineffective rebounders.

I'd guess Noel is significantly better.  I could be wrong.  Not at all sold on WCS.  They played together as freshman.  WCS didn't show much improvement over his 3 years of College ball.   Noel has incredible potential.

It is unbelievable how much you overrate Noel. Makes no sense. Defies Logic even. What is his upside, is he better than Anthony Davis at Defense? Nope...So I don't get your point. WCS and Noel both are the same in my eyes. Noel will not be good at Offense. He has no touch around the rim. So yes, WCS and Noel are the same bro. Sorry, but sometimes you can be a little ridiculous. I understand you don't want to sound bias, but please at least be fair. And again, why do you think players are going to go to Philly? Has Philly even attempted to trade for players? You do know players have control of where they go right?

I'm really looking forward to this off-season so the Celtics can shut up all the Philly fans around this board.

No offense but i get the sense you don't know what you are talking about.  We can chat again next season when the performances give you some clarity. In the meantime, feel free to google "Nerlens Noel defense" if you want to see the points I've made dozens of times of this forum already.

I am not sold on WCS. We will see what happens.

[tankcity!]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

How much better do you think Noel is compared to WCS. They are both athletic bigs from Kentucky who are tremendous defenders, bad offensive players, and surprisingly ineffective rebounders.

I'd guess Noel is significantly better.  I could be wrong.  Not at all sold on WCS.  They played together as freshman.  WCS didn't show much improvement over his 3 years of College ball.   Noel has incredible potential.

It is unbelievable how much you overrate Noel. Makes no sense. Defies Logic even. What is his upside, is he better than Anthony Davis at Defense? Nope...So I don't get your point. WCS and Noel both are the same in my eyes. Noel will not be good at Offense. He has no touch around the rim. So yes, WCS and Noel are the same bro. Sorry, but sometimes you can be a little ridiculous. I understand you don't want to sound bias, but please at least be fair. And again, why do you think players are going to go to Philly? Has Philly even attempted to trade for players? You do know players have control of where they go right?

I'm really looking forward to this off-season so the Celtics can shut up all the Philly fans around this board.

No offense but i get the sense you don't know what you are talking about.  We can chat again next season when the performances give you some clarity. In the meantime, feel free to google "Nerlens Noel defense" if you want to see the points I've made dozens of times of this forum already.

I am not sold on WCS. We will see what happens.

Um, a player can only be so good at defense in the NBA...His ceiling is Tyson Chandler and Deandre Jordan, both those guys are more role players than stars. So to me, it seems like you have no idea what you are talking about.

And I've read all your points before on Noel. He has good stats on defense. So what? His team sucks and it will continue to suck until they get a star. So they're banking on Embiid, who IMO will never overcome his injury concerns and the #3 pick in this draft. If they draft Porzingus, well then they'll have to wait 3-5 years until he reaches his potential.

Look, I typically agree with most of your points, but not when it comes to the Sixers. I don't think you can blatantly tank and be successful. For example, if Sixers drafted James Young, IMO, there is no way he would've gained fifteen pounds of muscle like he did with the Celtics. Culture is very important IMO.

[MBunge]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

As always, there are several levels to this debate.

1.  Literally anyone could do what Hinkie has done.  I could do it.  A ten year old could do it.  It doesn't take brains or wisdom or basketball knowledge.  It's the front office equivalent of flopping, trying to twist the rules to your advantage in a way that would damage the sport if everyone did it.

2.  Philly has now tanked for two straight years, both in-season and off-season, and it sure looks like a third is in the offing.  If all you've got for that is Noel and the #3 this year, a pick which some mock drafts have as Porzingis, that's horrible.

3.  I don't know what you mean by "foundational" when you use it to describe Noel.  Right now, the reasonable best case scenario for Noel is a more athletic Marcus Camby with better defense and less offense.  That would actually be a heck of a good player, but someone upon whom you build the "foundation" of a team?

Mike

[LarBrd33]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

How much better do you think Noel is compared to WCS. They are both athletic bigs from Kentucky who are tremendous defenders, bad offensive players, and surprisingly ineffective rebounders.

I'd guess Noel is significantly better.  I could be wrong.  Not at all sold on WCS.  They played together as freshman.  WCS didn't show much improvement over his 3 years of College ball.   Noel has incredible potential.

It is unbelievable how much you overrate Noel. Makes no sense. Defies Logic even. What is his upside, is he better than Anthony Davis at Defense? Nope...So I don't get your point. WCS and Noel both are the same in my eyes. Noel will not be good at Offense. He has no touch around the rim. So yes, WCS and Noel are the same bro. Sorry, but sometimes you can be a little ridiculous. I understand you don't want to sound bias, but please at least be fair. And again, why do you think players are going to go to Philly? Has Philly even attempted to trade for players? You do know players have control of where they go right?

I'm really looking forward to this off-season so the Celtics can shut up all the Philly fans around this board.

No offense but i get the sense you don't know what you are talking about.  We can chat again next season when the performances give you some clarity. In the meantime, feel free to google "Nerlens Noel defense" if you want to see the points I've made dozens of times of this forum already.

I am not sold on WCS. We will see what happens.

Um, a player can only be so good at defense in the NBA...His ceiling is Tyson Chandler and Deandre Jordan, both those guys are more role players than stars. So to me, it seems like you have no idea what you are talking about.

And I've read all your points before on Noel. He has good stats on defense. So what? His team sucks and it will continue to suck until they get a star. So they're banking on Embiid, who IMO will never overcome his injury concerns and the #3 pick in this draft. If they draft Porzingus, well then they'll have to wait 3-5 years until he reaches his potential.

Look, I typically agree with most of your points, but not when it comes to the Sixers. I don't think you can blatantly tank and be successful. For example, if Sixers drafted James Young, IMO, there is no way he would've gained fifteen pounds of muscle like he did with the Celtics. Culture is very important IMO.

Look,  Nerlens noel's Freshman defensive stats were better than WCS's Junior defensive stats. The lack of improvement over WCS's three seasons of college ball should be fairly concerning for anyone drafting him.  Normally bigs have significant improvement each year they play in college ball. Significant. I've seen bigs go from averaging almost nothing to 20/10 productivity by year 3... Then they flop in the NBA.  I get that WCS is a favorite around here but I'm not sold on him. Can he be an effective rim protector?  Probably. I see him as comparable to Bismack biyombo with a worse case scenario as fab melo.  Noel, though, put up historic defensive numbers for a rookie and  is on pace to be a perennial defensive player of the year.  His offensive game showed improvement as the season progressed.  I'm high on him. We will see what happens.

As-is it sounds like WCS is going top 6. Not sure how we'd get him without giving up 16+28+oly or sully. I'd rather just keep the assets and sign biyombo as a free agent. 

[D.o.s.]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

How much better do you think Noel is compared to WCS. They are both athletic bigs from Kentucky who are tremendous defenders, bad offensive players, and surprisingly ineffective rebounders.

I'd guess Noel is significantly better.  I could be wrong.  Not at all sold on WCS.  They played together as freshman.  WCS didn't show much improvement over his 3 years of College ball.   Noel has incredible potential.

It is unbelievable how much you overrate Noel. Makes no sense. Defies Logic even. What is his upside, is he better than Anthony Davis at Defense? Nope...So I don't get your point. WCS and Noel both are the same in my eyes. Noel will not be good at Offense. He has no touch around the rim. So yes, WCS and Noel are the same bro. Sorry, but sometimes you can be a little ridiculous. I understand you don't want to sound bias, but please at least be fair. And again, why do you think players are going to go to Philly? Has Philly even attempted to trade for players? You do know players have control of where they go right?

I'm really looking forward to this off-season so the Celtics can shut up all the Philly fans around this board.

No offense but i get the sense you don't know what you are talking about.  We can chat again next season when the performances give you some clarity. In the meantime, feel free to google "Nerlens Noel defense" if you want to see the points I've made dozens of times of this forum already.

I am not sold on WCS. We will see what happens.

Um, a player can only be so good at defense in the NBA...His ceiling is Tyson Chandler and Deandre Jordan, both those guys are more role players than stars. So to me, it seems like you have no idea what you are talking about.

And I've read all your points before on Noel. He has good stats on defense. So what? His team sucks and it will continue to suck until they get a star. So they're banking on Embiid, who IMO will never overcome his injury concerns and the #3 pick in this draft. If they draft Porzingus, well then they'll have to wait 3-5 years until he reaches his potential.

Look, I typically agree with most of your points, but not when it comes to the Sixers. I don't think you can blatantly tank and be successful. For example, if Sixers drafted James Young, IMO, there is no way he would've gained fifteen pounds of muscle like he did with the Celtics. Culture is very important IMO.

Oklahoma City, San Antonio, and Golden State are really feeling the long-term cultural effects of tanking.

Houston, too. Can't forget Houston.

[MBunge]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

How much better do you think Noel is compared to WCS. They are both athletic bigs from Kentucky who are tremendous defenders, bad offensive players, and surprisingly ineffective rebounders.

I'd guess Noel is significantly better.  I could be wrong.  Not at all sold on WCS.  They played together as freshman.  WCS didn't show much improvement over his 3 years of College ball.   Noel has incredible potential.

It is unbelievable how much you overrate Noel. Makes no sense. Defies Logic even. What is his upside, is he better than Anthony Davis at Defense? Nope...So I don't get your point. WCS and Noel both are the same in my eyes. Noel will not be good at Offense. He has no touch around the rim. So yes, WCS and Noel are the same bro. Sorry, but sometimes you can be a little ridiculous. I understand you don't want to sound bias, but please at least be fair. And again, why do you think players are going to go to Philly? Has Philly even attempted to trade for players? You do know players have control of where they go right?

I'm really looking forward to this off-season so the Celtics can shut up all the Philly fans around this board.

No offense but i get the sense you don't know what you are talking about.  We can chat again next season when the performances give you some clarity. In the meantime, feel free to google "Nerlens Noel defense" if you want to see the points I've made dozens of times of this forum already.

I am not sold on WCS. We will see what happens.

From basketball-reference.com

Defensive Rating
1.   Kawhi Leonard ? SAS   96.4
2.   Andrew Bogut ? GSW   96.8
3.   Tim Duncan ? SAS   96.9
4.   Draymond Green ? GSW   97.2
5.   Rudy Gobert ? UTA   98.0
6.   Tony Allen ? MEM   98.2
7.   DeAndre Jordan ? LAC   98.5
8.   Nerlens Noel ? PHI   99.2
9.   Paul Millsap ? ATL   99.2
10.   Marc Gasol ? MEM   99.6
11.   Andre Drummond ? DET   100.0
12.   Anthony Davis ? NOP   100.2
13.   Marcin Gortat ? WAS   100.3
14.   Al Jefferson ? CHO   100.3
15.   Zaza Pachulia ? MIL   100.4
16.   Danny Green ? SAS   100.5
17.   Roy Hibbert ? IND   100.6
18.   Zach Randolph ? MEM   100.6
19.   Pau Gasol ? CHI   100.6
20.   Luis Scola ? IND   100.8


They do rank Noel quite high on defense.  Of course, he's below a guy who couldn't play in the NBA Finals because his offense is so terrible and this defensive metric also names Al Jefferson and Luis Scola as among the 20 best defenders in the league, which seems a little odd.

The point being that you can't just waive around stats as through they're the Word of Basketball Yahweh.

Mike

[LarBrd33]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

As always, there are several levels to this debate.

1.  Literally anyone could do what Hinkie has done.  I could do it.  A ten year old could do it.  It doesn't take brains or wisdom or basketball knowledge.  It's the front office equivalent of flopping, trying to twist the rules to your advantage in a way that would damage the sport if everyone did it.

2.  Philly has now tanked for two straight years, both in-season and off-season, and it sure looks like a third is in the offing.  If all you've got for that is Noel and the #3 this year, a pick which some mock drafts have as Porzingis, that's horrible.

3.  I don't know what you mean by "foundational" when you use it to describe Noel.  Right now, the reasonable best case scenario for Noel is a more athletic Marcus Camby with better defense and less offense.  That would actually be a heck of a good player, but someone upon whom you build the "foundation" of a team?

Mike

Judging by Danny's actions over the past two seasons, tanking for phenom prospects is a lot harder than it seems.  Hinkie deserves credit for pulling it off.  Now we have to see how these kids perform long-term. Should be a fun team to watch heading forward.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

How much better do you think Noel is compared to WCS. They are both athletic bigs from Kentucky who are tremendous defenders, bad offensive players, and surprisingly ineffective rebounders.

I'd guess Noel is significantly better.  I could be wrong.  Not at all sold on WCS.  They played together as freshman.  WCS didn't show much improvement over his 3 years of College ball.   Noel has incredible potential.

It is unbelievable how much you overrate Noel. Makes no sense. Defies Logic even. What is his upside, is he better than Anthony Davis at Defense? Nope...So I don't get your point. WCS and Noel both are the same in my eyes. Noel will not be good at Offense. He has no touch around the rim. So yes, WCS and Noel are the same bro. Sorry, but sometimes you can be a little ridiculous. I understand you don't want to sound bias, but please at least be fair. And again, why do you think players are going to go to Philly? Has Philly even attempted to trade for players? You do know players have control of where they go right?

I'm really looking forward to this off-season so the Celtics can shut up all the Philly fans around this board.

No offense but i get the sense you don't know what you are talking about.  We can chat again next season when the performances give you some clarity. In the meantime, feel free to google "Nerlens Noel defense" if you want to see the points I've made dozens of times of this forum already.

I am not sold on WCS. We will see what happens.

Look, I typically agree with most of your points, but not when it comes to the Sixers. I don't think you can blatantly tank and be successful.

I cannot fathom how you could have paid any attention to basketball from 2006-2008 and come away with this conclusion...

And spare me on the culture piece, that's one of the Sixers strengths not one of it's weaknesses. The entire organization revolves around player development.

[slamtheking]

I think "the mess that is Philly" is largely incorrect, by the way. They have a good coach. They are creating a system on the court. They are losing a lot of games, sure, but it isn't like they're the Kings. The 76ers aren't flailing around rudderlessly.

if you consider a plan of creating a roster to be as bad as possible in order to increase the odds of winning the lottery to not be 'rudderless' then, sure, they have a plan. 

Thing is, they're already 2 years into Noel's rookie deal--the top player on the team that's actually seen court time so far.  Philly doesn't figure to be close to competing for a playoff spot during the rest of his contract.  What's his incentive to stay for another contract as opposed to going to another team that has a culture (or likelihood) of winning during his next deal?

If people are talking about maxing out a player like Middleton, Noel could get a max deal now if he were eligible.  Money won't be an issue for this kid.  I just don't see a reason why he wouldn't choose to move to a franchise that has more to offer than just money (which he will get from anyone)

[celticsclay]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

How much better do you think Noel is compared to WCS. They are both athletic bigs from Kentucky who are tremendous defenders, bad offensive players, and surprisingly ineffective rebounders.

I'd guess Noel is significantly better.  I could be wrong.  Not at all sold on WCS.  They played together as freshman.  WCS didn't show much improvement over his 3 years of College ball.   Noel has incredible potential.

It is unbelievable how much you overrate Noel. Makes no sense. Defies Logic even. What is his upside, is he better than Anthony Davis at Defense? Nope...So I don't get your point. WCS and Noel both are the same in my eyes. Noel will not be good at Offense. He has no touch around the rim. So yes, WCS and Noel are the same bro. Sorry, but sometimes you can be a little ridiculous. I understand you don't want to sound bias, but please at least be fair. And again, why do you think players are going to go to Philly? Has Philly even attempted to trade for players? You do know players have control of where they go right?

I'm really looking forward to this off-season so the Celtics can shut up all the Philly fans around this board.

No offense but i get the sense you don't know what you are talking about.  We can chat again next season when the performances give you some clarity. In the meantime, feel free to google "Nerlens Noel defense" if you want to see the points I've made dozens of times of this forum already.

I am not sold on WCS. We will see what happens.

Um, a player can only be so good at defense in the NBA...His ceiling is Tyson Chandler and Deandre Jordan, both those guys are more role players than stars. So to me, it seems like you have no idea what you are talking about.

And I've read all your points before on Noel. He has good stats on defense. So what? His team sucks and it will continue to suck until they get a star. So they're banking on Embiid, who IMO will never overcome his injury concerns and the #3 pick in this draft. If they draft Porzingus, well then they'll have to wait 3-5 years until he reaches his potential.

Look, I typically agree with most of your points, but not when it comes to the Sixers. I don't think you can blatantly tank and be successful. For example, if Sixers drafted James Young, IMO, there is no way he would've gained fifteen pounds of muscle like he did with the Celtics. Culture is very important IMO.

Oklahoma City, San Antonio, and Golden State are really feeling the long-term cultural effects of tanking.

Houston, too. Can't forget Houston.

DOS San Antontio is really a horrible example and you significantly weaken the point you are making by including them. They "tanked" something like 17 seasons ago and everyone that was on their roster for that season has been retired from the NBA a minimum of 5 years (looking at that roster I would even say 10 is possible). Even the most anti-tank people don't view at is as some voodoo curse that haunts your roster 20 years down the line.

If you have one season where your star player gets injured and you don't get him back as quickly as possible this is not the same as having three consecutive  20 win seasons. It is entirely possibly that the whole culture of losing thing is sports talk myth. However, saying there can be an impact on young players going through long term losing for multiple seasons is at least a plausible point. Saying a team will have a long term negative impact where they didn't do everything they could to win games in a single season seems like a completely different, and fairly ridiculous point.

[tankcity!]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

How much better do you think Noel is compared to WCS. They are both athletic bigs from Kentucky who are tremendous defenders, bad offensive players, and surprisingly ineffective rebounders.

I'd guess Noel is significantly better.  I could be wrong.  Not at all sold on WCS.  They played together as freshman.  WCS didn't show much improvement over his 3 years of College ball.   Noel has incredible potential.

It is unbelievable how much you overrate Noel. Makes no sense. Defies Logic even. What is his upside, is he better than Anthony Davis at Defense? Nope...So I don't get your point. WCS and Noel both are the same in my eyes. Noel will not be good at Offense. He has no touch around the rim. So yes, WCS and Noel are the same bro. Sorry, but sometimes you can be a little ridiculous. I understand you don't want to sound bias, but please at least be fair. And again, why do you think players are going to go to Philly? Has Philly even attempted to trade for players? You do know players have control of where they go right?

I'm really looking forward to this off-season so the Celtics can shut up all the Philly fans around this board.

No offense but i get the sense you don't know what you are talking about.  We can chat again next season when the performances give you some clarity. In the meantime, feel free to google "Nerlens Noel defense" if you want to see the points I've made dozens of times of this forum already.

I am not sold on WCS. We will see what happens.

Um, a player can only be so good at defense in the NBA...His ceiling is Tyson Chandler and Deandre Jordan, both those guys are more role players than stars. So to me, it seems like you have no idea what you are talking about.

And I've read all your points before on Noel. He has good stats on defense. So what? His team sucks and it will continue to suck until they get a star. So they're banking on Embiid, who IMO will never overcome his injury concerns and the #3 pick in this draft. If they draft Porzingus, well then they'll have to wait 3-5 years until he reaches his potential.

Look, I typically agree with most of your points, but not when it comes to the Sixers. I don't think you can blatantly tank and be successful. For example, if Sixers drafted James Young, IMO, there is no way he would've gained fifteen pounds of muscle like he did with the Celtics. Culture is very important IMO.

Oklahoma City, San Antonio, and Golden State are really feeling the long-term cultural effects of tanking.

Houston, too. Can't forget Houston.

Right...Houston tanked for Hakeem the dream you mean. Otherwise, no idea why you threw Houston in there. And the other teams tanked like the Celtics, it's just unfortunate the Celtics have a great coach. I never said you shouldn't tank. Look at my name. I was only saying blatantly tanking kills the culture. Do you even remember the culture of the Warriors and the Thunder? I actually watched those teams played when they sucked. They were trying to win. They were just young and didn't have great coaching. I don't understand how people can't tell the difference on this board. What Philly is doing is egregious.

[tankcity!]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

How much better do you think Noel is compared to WCS. They are both athletic bigs from Kentucky who are tremendous defenders, bad offensive players, and surprisingly ineffective rebounders.

I'd guess Noel is significantly better.  I could be wrong.  Not at all sold on WCS.  They played together as freshman.  WCS didn't show much improvement over his 3 years of College ball.   Noel has incredible potential.

It is unbelievable how much you overrate Noel. Makes no sense. Defies Logic even. What is his upside, is he better than Anthony Davis at Defense? Nope...So I don't get your point. WCS and Noel both are the same in my eyes. Noel will not be good at Offense. He has no touch around the rim. So yes, WCS and Noel are the same bro. Sorry, but sometimes you can be a little ridiculous. I understand you don't want to sound bias, but please at least be fair. And again, why do you think players are going to go to Philly? Has Philly even attempted to trade for players? You do know players have control of where they go right?

I'm really looking forward to this off-season so the Celtics can shut up all the Philly fans around this board.

No offense but i get the sense you don't know what you are talking about.  We can chat again next season when the performances give you some clarity. In the meantime, feel free to google "Nerlens Noel defense" if you want to see the points I've made dozens of times of this forum already.

I am not sold on WCS. We will see what happens.

Look, I typically agree with most of your points, but not when it comes to the Sixers. I don't think you can blatantly tank and be successful.

I cannot fathom how you could have paid any attention to basketball from 2006-2008 and come away with this conclusion...

And spare me on the culture piece, that's one of the Sixers strengths not one of it's weaknesses. The entire organization revolves around player development.

Okay....The only year I remember the Celtics tanking was the year Pierce and Tony Allen got hurt. It's not like they sold everyone and blatantly tanked like the Sixers so I don't get your point.

[MBunge]

The lack of improvement over WCS's three seasons of college ball should be fairly concerning for anyone drafting him. 

According to the stats, WCS did improve a lot defensively.

Mike

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

I think "the mess that is Philly" is largely incorrect, by the way. They have a good coach. They are creating a system on the court. They are losing a lot of games, sure, but it isn't like they're the Kings. The 76ers aren't flailing around rudderlessly.

if you consider a plan of creating a roster to be as bad as possible in order to increase the odds of winning the lottery to not be 'rudderless' then, sure, they have a plan. 

Thing is, they're already 2 years into Noel's rookie deal--the top player on the team that's actually seen court time so far.  Philly doesn't figure to be close to competing for a playoff spot during the rest of his contract.  What's his incentive to stay for another contract as opposed to going to another team that has a culture (or likelihood) of winning during his next deal?

Well, to answer your last question... money.

But the idea this team can't compete for the playoffs a year from now in the East is a bit absurd. The 8th seed in the East is not particularly difficult to attain.

And when you look at the landscape it's not like there will be a monumental shift in the league's talent any time soon. The Knicks and Nets are spinning their wheels, Detroit is Sacramento East, the Magic are 3 years into the rebuild and have built around a backcourt that can't shoot and a front court that can't defend, the Raptors could go firesale, Chicago is treading water, Chalotte is a mess and Miami might lose Wade.

Washington, Milwaukee, Boston, Indiana w/ a healthy George are the only competitive teams on the upswing.

It'd surprise me if Cleveland wasn't still the dominant force in the East, but I'm not really sure where Atlanta goes from here.

[tankcity!]

Hinkie understands what a lot of people here don't:  Superstars win titles. 

The vast majority of superstars DON'T win titles.

And what Hinkie understood is that he could follow a strategy that screwed over his own fan base and sponged off the rest of the least for several years and, as long as there were plenty of folks like you around to defend him, he could get away with it.

Mike

Embiid or no Embiid, I still take their two top assets over any two of ours combined... possibly even 3.

A defensive phenom like Nerlens Noel and whatever they get at #3... That's foundation-building cornerstones. 

After Marcus Smart, what's our best asset here?  Brooklyn's unprotected 2016?  That pick might end up 12-17.   I'd surely trade both of those "assets" for either Noel or the #3 pick.

How much better do you think Noel is compared to WCS. They are both athletic bigs from Kentucky who are tremendous defenders, bad offensive players, and surprisingly ineffective rebounders.

I'd guess Noel is significantly better.  I could be wrong.  Not at all sold on WCS.  They played together as freshman.  WCS didn't show much improvement over his 3 years of College ball.   Noel has incredible potential.

It is unbelievable how much you overrate Noel. Makes no sense. Defies Logic even. What is his upside, is he better than Anthony Davis at Defense? Nope...So I don't get your point. WCS and Noel both are the same in my eyes. Noel will not be good at Offense. He has no touch around the rim. So yes, WCS and Noel are the same bro. Sorry, but sometimes you can be a little ridiculous. I understand you don't want to sound bias, but please at least be fair. And again, why do you think players are going to go to Philly? Has Philly even attempted to trade for players? You do know players have control of where they go right?

I'm really looking forward to this off-season so the Celtics can shut up all the Philly fans around this board.

No offense but i get the sense you don't know what you are talking about.  We can chat again next season when the performances give you some clarity. In the meantime, feel free to google "Nerlens Noel defense" if you want to see the points I've made dozens of times of this forum already.

I am not sold on WCS. We will see what happens.

Um, a player can only be so good at defense in the NBA...His ceiling is Tyson Chandler and Deandre Jordan, both those guys are more role players than stars. So to me, it seems like you have no idea what you are talking about.

And I've read all your points before on Noel. He has good stats on defense. So what? His team sucks and it will continue to suck until they get a star. So they're banking on Embiid, who IMO will never overcome his injury concerns and the #3 pick in this draft. If they draft Porzingus, well then they'll have to wait 3-5 years until he reaches his potential.

Look, I typically agree with most of your points, but not when it comes to the Sixers. I don't think you can blatantly tank and be successful. For example, if Sixers drafted James Young, IMO, there is no way he would've gained fifteen pounds of muscle like he did with the Celtics. Culture is very important IMO.

Look,  Nerlens noel's Freshman defensive stats were better than WCS's Junior defensive stats. The lack of improvement over WCS's three seasons of college ball should be fairly concerning for anyone drafting him.  Normally bigs have significant improvement each year they play in college ball. Significant. I've seen bigs go from averaging almost nothing to 20/10 productivity by year 3... Then they flop in the NBA.  I get that WCS is a favorite around here but I'm not sold on him. Can he be an effective rim protector?  Probably. I see him as comparable to Bismack biyombo with a worse case scenario as fab melo.  Noel, though, put up historic defensive numbers for a rookie and  is on pace to be a perennial defensive player of the year.  His offensive game showed improvement as the season progressed.  I'm high on him. We will see what happens.

As-is it sounds like WCS is going top 6. Not sure how we'd get him without giving up 16+28+oly or sully. I'd rather just keep the assets and sign biyombo as a free agent.

I don't understand why WCS keeps being thrown into this. There is only one way to win in the NBA, and it's if you have a player who can flat out score. But you make Noel sound like he is this unbelievable player when in fact he is basically a future role player like Deandre Jordan. And that is if he reaches his potential.

My main point is, Philly really needs Embiid to be good and this #3 pick to pan out, because if they don't, they will not be contenders in 7 years.