The Celtics' search for a star

[greece66]

//The Celtics postseason is proving to be almost as exciting and unpredictable as their regular season. With talk of acquiring big name top tier stars, and just as much talk of acquiring a slew of next tier talents and plenty of talk about all the potential draft picks. With all this talk there is a lot being said about what this team needs to change to win a championship.

Yet for me I'm more concerned about what exactly the Celtics need to keep the same. The Celtics already have a winning basketball team. They might not be a championship team, yet, but they are a winning team.

So while the Celtics search for the next star it’s important they don’t lose sight of what they already have.

It’s safe to say that the Celtics have rebuilt quicker than anyone expected. After the now infamous Rondo trade many believed the Celtics would slide into the bottom half of the conference and stay there for at least a couple of years. (Few expected that it would actually be Rondo whose winning record would suffer.)

Tanking the season was considered a realistic possibility.

Somehow Stevens proved the doubters wrong and cobbled together a starting five out of what had mostly been considered role players. Together they began to deliver a winning record. With Isaiah Thomas joining as the enigmatic sixth man the Celtics rebuild was kicked into overdrive.

Things started to gel and seemingly out of nowhere the C’s established one of the best winning records in the conference during the latter half of the season. Best of all they were playing unselfish, pass first, team orientated, Celtics style basketball.

The playoffs came up fast on the recently rebuilt Celtics. They were just starting to establish their style and set a tone as a team when they were thrown into a first round contest against a squad that had exactly what they lacked, stars.

The playoff battle between the Cavs and the Celtics was more physical and contested than many expected, but it still ended as almost everyone had predicted.

The sweep seemed to prove that the Celtics were simply outclassed by the more stacked Cavs. Despite all of Stevens’ tactical acumen the C’s just didn’t have the talent to get over the likes of Lebron and Kyrie.

Now, like all the clubs sent away from the offseason prematurely the Celtics are asking themselves what missing ingredient will take us to the next level. Not surprisingly in the quest for championship glory the Celtics are looking to the stars.

With space in the salary cap and a warchest full of first round draft picks it seems likely that the Celtics management will aim for a high value trade acquisition. A guard with some shooting depth or a forward who can offer rim protection being highest on the agenda but finding the right fit will be paramount. Remember, the Celtics already have a winning basketball team.

Adding the wrong player to the roster could easily upset the delicate balance of what’s been built, while losing the wrong player could be equally damaging.

The Celtics built their season on the backs of players who probably wouldn’t even make the starting lineup on a lot of other teams. The players who were able to stick to Stevens’ set plays were given priority and a team of unlikely heroes emerged when their adherence to the gameplan paid off.

For me very little is missing from this Celtics roster at all. It’s a young team that is still coming together which is why any kind of major change in the lineup could be change for the worse.

Acquiring a next level big man would see Zeller and Sullinger given more time on the bench. Something that would be disappointing as these are two big men who I believe are just coming into their own.

Zeller is clearly one who has drunk the Stevens kool-aid because his rotations and ability to get open looks is amazing. Zeller’s biggest problem is that while the opposition rarely notices him sneaking into position his teammates seem to notice him just as rarely. This probably comes down to his overall lack of presence though, something he’ll need to work on in the break if he wants continued time in the regular rotation.

Sullinger is probably the Celtics most valuable rebounder, which is a worry because his athleticism has been called into question more than once. Nonetheless he’s a big man with depth from the field, which means he can be fit perfectly into any coaching strategy and should be considered an asset.

Jerebko is another big man who seems steeped in Stevens’ strategy and could prove invaluable for the Celtics frontcourt. Yet if the Celtics acquire another big Jerebko’s role would undoubtedly become more limited.

Meanwhile, Jae Crowder seems to have cemented his position as a starter after his brutal playoff performances. He brings the energy and intensity a strategy heavy team like the Celtics desperately need and all signs point to him occupying a big role in the team’s future.

Marcus Smart is a rookie who has performed exactly as well as he was expected to perform. Which is actually pretty amazing for a rookie. Going forward it seems likely he’s going to stick around and be trained up as Stevens’ padawan, meaning any potential star players would have to be at peace with the young court leader.

Avery Bradley and Evan Turner are probably the two members of the Celtics roster who have been the most heavily criticised. Which is surprising considering at times they seem like the glue that holds the whole unit together. Even so their below average shooting percentages mean that if the Celtics search for a shooter finds gold it’s almost certain that Turner and Bradley would be relegated back to being little more than role players.

Across the bench players like Bass, Young, Olynyk, Pressey, Babb, Datome and Wallace have all given solid contributions. The biggest issue for this Celtics roster isn’t a lack of talent it’s that there is so much proven potential. The genius of this Celtics team has meant that even mid level layers have been able to put in admirable performances when they have stuck to the gameplan and played as a team. Regardless, many of these players will be considered little more than trading pieces when it comes to building a championship lineup.

This is a young team and despite what’s been said there is a lot of talent on this roster. The management have shown vision and purpose in getting this team together so it seems unlikely they will abandon the foresight they've shown so far. Obviously acquiring a top tier player like Kevin Love or LaMarcus Aldridge should only serve to compliment this team, but extreme care has to be taken in which pieces are moved around in order to add new ones. The addition of a couple of big names could do more to damage what’s been accomplished than it does to help win a championship. Of course rosters change, players are traded and teams grow but while the Celtics search for the stars it might be worth looking at what they’ve already got.

The Celtics have already proven they are a playoff worthy team. With a little bit more experience and hell of a lot of dedication they could be a championship team if only they can get the stars out of their eyes.//

From CelticsBlog user  LachlanMarr
Source http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/4/8549329/the-search-for-a-star

[greece66]

Personally, I *feel* exactly the same way and I'm happy someone said it so well. The key thing is to improve what we have and add a few extra pieces. But rumours  about trading IT for Ty Lawson or us targeting Cousins/Love/LBJ (facepalm/ Leonard are almost certainly nothing but hot air. 

[Future Celtics Owner]

We are not going to get a star if we keep up what we did this season. I'd trade Avery etc for a pick that nabbed us Myles Turner. With the East getting better we prob won't even make the playoffs next year. IND MIA are two teams that will be getting make superstar players....we barely beat them into the playoffs.

Im sick of the Green Teamers who only watch when we are good and liken the NBA DRAFT to the NFL NHL or MLB. The drafts are completely dif and the NBA is a star ran league.

Sorry for being off topic. I only watch the Celtics and nothing else. So while many have moved onto baseball I'm still plugging away researching the draft.

[Eddie20]

We are not going to get a star if we keep up what we did this season. I'd trade Avery etc for a pick that nabbed us Myles Turner. With the East getting better we prob won't even make the playoffs next year. IND MIA are two teams that will be getting make superstar players....we barely beat them into the playoffs.

Im sick of the Green Teamers who only watch when we are good and liken the NBA DRAFT to the NFL NHL or MLB. The drafts are completely dif and the NBA is a star ran league.

Sorry for being off topic. I only watch the Celtics and nothing else. So while many have moved onto baseball I'm still plugging away researching the draft.

You're going to have to turn down the negativity when you own the C's. You could alienate the fanbase and be the new Gaston.

[Rosco917]

Greece666...Nice grasp of what this team is, and what it needs.

A championship team is the blend of the correct amount talent and a right balance of chemistry.
Within this chemistry "thing" are words like character, desire, work ethic, proper ego, dedication, etc

Red was a basketball legend, he knew how to build a team where the sum of the parts were better than it's individual players. He had his core players, "stars" if you will, but they believed in his formula. He knew how to plug in certain players and get great results.

In this world of sneaker deals, outrageous pays, and crazy egos, his way of building a team is getting more and more difficult. We live in an instant gratification society, we want stars wether they fit or not.

[D.o.s.]

Greece666...Nice grasp of what this team is, and what it needs.

A championship team is the blend of the correct amount talent and a right balance of chemistry.
Within this chemistry "thing" are words like character, desire, work ethic, proper ego, dedication, etc

Red was a basketball legend, he knew how to build a team where the sum of the parts were better than it's individual players. He had his core players, "stars" if you will, but they believed in his formula. He knew how to plug in certain players and get great results.

In this world of sneaker deals, outrageous pays, and crazy egos, his way of building a team is getting more and more difficult. We live in an instant gratification society, we want stars wether they fit or not.

Aren't you afraid that all the sepia is going to stain your monitor?

Red traded for the franchise's greatest player sight unseen. It was, basically, the biggest crapshoot in the history of the game. He refused to draft Bob Cousy, and wound up with him only after a team imploded.

He's one of the greats, but don't misconstrue it -- without the Ice Capades, there is no Celtics dynasty (that no one saw, in a city that hated the sport).

Or, in the fashion of greece666:

[greece66]

@D.o.s.
I am not even sure what we are arguing about, but this is fun 


As for Red being lucky-->

[D.o.s.]

Oh, no, I was answering Roscoe with a GIF, inspired by you.

[greece66]

You know I love GIFs  but we also need a topic for this conversation

[PhoSita]

The article in the OP is a nice sentiment, but as I've stated plenty of times elsewhere, I pretty strongly disagree with the premise.

The 2015 Celts were a team of scrappy, mostly bench-caliber guys who were able to adapt to Stevens' system and take a lot of teams by surprise in the regular season.  Then the lack of shooting ability, size, and general talent caught up with them in the playoffs; a star-laden opponent that had time to scout and prepare for the matchup bulldozed them in four games.

I think this year's team is a good blueprint for future success in terms of style of play and roles, but the top 4 or 5 players need to be upgraded, with an emphasis on improving shooting, interior defense, and defensive rebounding.

[BDeCosta26]

We are not going to get a star if we keep up what we did this season. I'd trade Avery etc for a pick that nabbed us Myles Turner. With the East getting better we prob won't even make the playoffs next year. IND MIA are two teams that will be getting make superstar players....we barely beat them into the playoffs.

Im sick of the Green Teamers who only watch when we are good and liken the NBA DRAFT to the NFL NHL or MLB. The drafts are completely dif and the NBA is a star ran league.

Sorry for being off topic. I only watch the Celtics and nothing else. So while many have moved onto baseball I'm still plugging away researching the draft.

I'll never understand this. Why are we going to be worse next year, or not even make the playoffs. We went something like 24-11 over our last 35 games with a core of guys all 26 or younger and even after that horrific start to the season we managed to reach 40 wins. Even assuming we don't make any moves (which I highly doubt), just bringing this group back with some development from Smart, Young, AB, Sully, etc. should get us to a few games over 500. Even if Indiana and Miami improve, Toronto looks like they're ready to blow it up, Milwaukee seemed like a much different team after the MCW trade and Brooklyn is MUCH more likely than us to fall out of the playoff picture, certainly if Lopez opts out.

I get that young teams take steps back some times, and I surely don't expect this group to keep up a 56 win pace all year. But still, in a season where we made 1000 trades and had a multitude of injuries amidst a bunch of other obstacles we still managed to just about reach .500, including that great stretch once this group came together. I'd be absolutely shocked if we won less than 38 games this year, and I'll be disappointed with anything less than 43-39. Besides, do you really think Ainge doesn't make any moves?

Tanking isn't the only way to become good, and if your smart about it, you don't even have to tank to get a high draft pick. It's pretty clear now that we're going forward trying to win games. We'd have to nearly gut the roster to tank at this point, which would alienate Stevens and put us right back at square one. That ship has sailed my friend.

[alewilliam789]

We are not going to get a star if we keep up what we did this season. I'd trade Avery etc for a pick that nabbed us Myles Turner. With the East getting better we prob won't even make the playoffs next year. IND MIA are two teams that will be getting make superstar players....we barely beat them into the playoffs.

Im sick of the Green Teamers who only watch when we are good and liken the NBA DRAFT to the NFL NHL or MLB. The drafts are completely dif and the NBA is a star ran league.

Sorry for being off topic. I only watch the Celtics and nothing else. So while many have moved onto baseball I'm still plugging away researching the draft.

   Completely agree with you on this team. The only reason that we made the playoffs is because the East was historically bad. The only keepers that I see on this team are Thomas and Sullinger because both are young, highly skilled when healthy, and have potential to still get better in their respective games. Sell high on Smart while he still seems like he has potential because teams are going to start catching onto the fact that Smart is an average NBA player and not a point guard. Sell high on Bradley while he's flashed his ability as an off ball player, durability, and that renowned defense which are highly prized traits to playoff teams in the lottery or in the first round. Thomas may not be the best all- around point guard, but he has shown that he is more than capable as a starting point guard and should be ours.

     I might be the only one, but I really like Thomas and think he has proved that he should be starting for us. He has earned to start and it's just that simple. I'm sick of Ainge not starting him over Smart who hasn't earned anything. It is Ainge because Stevens knows Thomas is the better player, but doesn't want to alienate Ainge and his draft pick. The single and only reason Smart is getting 20+ minutes per game on our basketball team is because he was the 6th overall pick. He in no way has earned his starting spot in the way Thomas has. I think Celtics fans need to see the roses. Smart hasn't proven to be anything more than an average basketball talent. He is absolutely a good defensive player, but in every other aspect of the game he is average or below average and that is not encouraging for a player that's already spent 2 full years in college. Isaiah's all around offensive skill and mental impact on our team outweighs what Smart contributes on the defensive side of the ball. You may say that starting isn't that important, but I will absolutely dispute this claim. You ask any basketball player out there whether they would rather get 30 minutes per game starting or 30 minutes as a 6th man and majority of basketball players will say starting. It's not as much about the minutes, but the mindset. It's about the fact that the franchise and head coach have enough confidence in your ability to go pull wins out each and every night by placing you in their best starting lineup. Thomas has proved this time and time over. How can some fans be down on Thomas after the Cavs series? Isaiah isn't the type of player you can expect to go in and carry his team over players like James, Irving, and Love? The only reason he was exposed was because he is literally the only player that can create for others and himself on the Celtics besides maybe Turner. He literally carried our team in Game 1 and 2 it's just he didn't have the personnel around him to finish the job. If we put the right personnel around Thomas we will win games. You put Thomas in the starting lineup with Bradley which is a great fit for both players, a SF that can get his own and defend, maybe Middleton or RHJ , can keep Sullinger in the starting lineup at PF if healthy, and a rim protector like WCS or DJ and we will make the playoffs. Of course you can say that with any player, but I think people are overemphasizing his defensive woes. It's rare to have a playmaker of his caliber and we need to take advantage of it.

   As for stars I say go after any stars/semi-stars under 28 that isn't a PG. I like Lawson, and he is a better all around point guard then both Thomas and Smart, but we will have to give up too much to get him with many questions. Also try and keep 16 in any trade because there is still tons of talent at 16 including Portis, RHJ, maybe Dekker, Devin Booker, and maybe RJ Hunter and could fill hole by a player that we sent off in a trade.

[greece66]

The article in the OP is a nice sentiment, but as I've stated plenty of times elsewhere, I pretty strongly disagree with the premise.

The 2015 Celts were a team of scrappy, mostly bench-caliber guys who were able to adapt to Stevens' system and take a lot of teams by surprise in the regular season.  Then the lack of shooting ability, size, and general talent caught up with them in the playoffs; a star-laden opponent that had time to scout and prepare for the matchup bulldozed them in four games.

I think this year's team is a good blueprint for future success in terms of style of play and roles, but the top 4 or 5 players need to be upgraded, with an emphasis on improving shooting, interior defense, and defensive rebounding.

Agreed. We'll need to trade or get through FA a couple of top players at some point.
But not 4-5: some of these 5 top players will be developed from within the team -maybe Smart or Young or the guy we  get this or the next year through the draft. Point is: this team still has a lot of time before maturing.
IMO looks like this season we'll get one or two solid role players (eg Tobias Harris or Biyombo). No top players for now.

[PhoSita]

The article in the OP is a nice sentiment, but as I've stated plenty of times elsewhere, I pretty strongly disagree with the premise.

The 2015 Celts were a team of scrappy, mostly bench-caliber guys who were able to adapt to Stevens' system and take a lot of teams by surprise in the regular season.  Then the lack of shooting ability, size, and general talent caught up with them in the playoffs; a star-laden opponent that had time to scout and prepare for the matchup bulldozed them in four games.

I think this year's team is a good blueprint for future success in terms of style of play and roles, but the top 4 or 5 players need to be upgraded, with an emphasis on improving shooting, interior defense, and defensive rebounding.

Agreed. We'll need to trade or get through FA a couple of top players at some point.
But not 4-5: some of these 5 top players will be developed from within the team -maybe Smart or Young or the guy we  get this or the next year through the draft. Point is: this team still has a lot of time before maturing.
IMO looks like this season we'll get one or two solid role players (eg Tobias Harris or Biyombo). No top players for now.

I should point out I didn't mean that we need to add 4 or 5 top players i.e. All-Stars / Superstars.

Rather, the roster already looks pretty good in terms of the effectiveness of the guys in the 6-10 spots.  But the team will need 2 or 3 really good players and 1 or 2 additional above average contributors in order to be where we all want them to be, I think.

We're in agreement that a couple of the guys already on the team could improve enough to be one of those upgrades, Smart being the prime candidate.  Sullinger and Olynyk still have it in them, I believe, to take another step, but I'm not counting on it.

[greece66]

@PhoSita
Then we agree.

I also think Smart has the highest ceiling of the three players you mention.
Kelly and Sully can IMO develop in good rotation players, but I would be surprised if either ever becomes a starter in a contender.
Sully has to become faster/improve his stamina and  his 3pt, but he already has a strong body and a  good instinct for rebounding.
Kelly can become a lethal weapon offensively. I really hope CBS fixes the obvious psychological issue: he does not believe enough in himself.
For the rest: I really hope we resign Crowder. I am lukewarm about Jerebko and Datome probably goes- at best he is a good spot up shooter with no D and rebounding.
As for Pressey, I expect him to be gone every summer and then here is... They might keep him as a reserve in case of injuries, but he is not among our 12 guys.