Marc Stein on C's (Cousins, Love, etc.)

[ben_from_boston]

Isaiah THomas and DeMarcus Cousins tweeting back and fourth, probably just to troll all the C's fans that want Boogie in Boston.

Haha what are they saying? I can't find what you're talking about.

Isaiah ThomasVerified account
?@Isaiah_Thomas
@boogiecousins appreciate the signed jersey you sent me family...

DeMarcus Cousins ?@boogiecousins  1h1 hour ago
@Isaiah_Thomas fasho

Nothing really deep, but that isn't going to stop me from pretending they are BFFs and IT is going to bring Boogie here haha.

If IT is the force that brings Cousins to Boston, then IT has got to be one of Ainge's greatest ever trades/thieveries, esp given IT's own cheap contract.

[jpotter33]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=no9xjzh

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n8s3o3l

I think a trade solely between Sacramento and Boston would have to look something similar to the first link above. Cousins, Thompson, and Stauskas for Wallace, Turner, Smart, Young, Sully, and our pick this year. Wallace and Turner are purely expiring contracts, but Smart, Young, and Sully gives Sacramento young good prospects at the 1, 2, 3, and 4. They could then nab WCS in this draft and have a GREAT young core of Smart, Mcelmore, Young, Sully, and WCS. For us, Thompson would be us absorbing a bad contract, but we'd walk away with DMC and Stauskas (who they wouldn't exactly need with Mcelmore and Young). To me, this is a HUGE overpay that I'm not sure is worth it.

I think involving a third team is the way to go, and Denver is the most obvious choice. The 2nd link has the trade breakdown like this:
Boston: DMC, Chandler
Sacramento: Lawson, Olynyk OR Sully, Zeller, Boston OR Dallas 2016 1st, LA 2015 1st
Denver: Wallace, Turner, Young, Brooklyn 2016 1st, Boston 2015 1st

This is more realistic, decently fair to all involved, and better for us in my opinion. Sacramento would get a run-and-gun style of team that Karl loves while staying semi-competitive, Denver would bottom out to tank getting the picks they wanted and picking up a good prospect in Young, and Boston would get its star along with a serviceable three-man while keeping Smart.

[Endless Paradise]

The Kings were very much so on track to post a winning record or, at the very least, well over 30 wins to start the season -- before Cousins missed extended time with meningitis and the Kings went and Kinged around with the coach.

[Endless Paradise]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=no9xjzh

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n8s3o3l

I think a trade solely between Sacramento and Boston would have to look something similar to the first link above. Cousins, Thompson, and Stauskas for Wallace, Turner, Smart, Young, Sully, and our pick this year. Wallace and Turner are purely expiring contracts, but Smart, Young, and Sully gives Sacramento young good prospects at the 1, 2, 3, and 4. They could then nab WCS in this draft and have a GREAT young core of Smart, Mcelmore, Young, Sully, and WCS. For us, Thompson would be us absorbing a bad contract, but we'd walk away with DMC and Stauskas (who they wouldn't exactly need with Mcelmore and Young). To me, this is a HUGE overpay that I'm not sure is worth it.

That proposed Kings team isn't any better than the Celtics this year - and they play in the West. I don't think there's any shot you're getting Cousins - who's under contract for three more years - for some role players of varying quality and a single mediocre first rounder. If the Kings are going to trade Cousins any time soon, they absolutely don't need to settle because there's no shot of losing him for several years. Expect them to hold out for an amazing offer because... they have all of the leverage. No pressure on them whatsoever to trade him.

[byennie]

There is NO WAY I give more than 2 first round picks 3 at the most for Boogie. I like his game and he would definitely help but IF he doesn't work out all the work Danny has done the last year is thrown away if you give more than that in my opinion.  I don't think you give away THAT much for one player not named lebron or kd. Although Cousins is very good he isn't like those 2 in the sense he can carry a team almost by himself if he could Sac wouldn't be so bad.

 I also think if we somehow get him he will even be BETTER. I think the atmosphere in Boston will bring out even more of his talent. A solid front office down to a head coach would do wanders for him.

So a 24 year-old center on a very reasonable contract who averaged 26-13-4-2 *and* defends, is going to be even better in Boston... but you'd rather not trade more than 2 1st rounders for him?

Huh?

Cousins has been in the league for 5 years. The Kings have won 24, 22,28, 28, and 29 games over that period. If he's so great, how come he's never won 30 games? A great player should be able to carry you to at least some moderate level of success. Sure, he's been on some horrible teams, but even so something doesn't compute.

No doubt there's some risk there, but that's not what I was responding to. If he's going to be even better here, 2 picks is an absolute bargain. Even if he's not a great leader or has an MJ / LeBron type impact.

It's worth noting that Sacramento  outscored opponents last year with Cousins on the court. KG's teams were only around .500 his first 4 years, and didn't get out of the 1st round until his *ninth* season...

[jpotter33]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=no9xjzh

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n8s3o3l

I think a trade solely between Sacramento and Boston would have to look something similar to the first link above. Cousins, Thompson, and Stauskas for Wallace, Turner, Smart, Young, Sully, and our pick this year. Wallace and Turner are purely expiring contracts, but Smart, Young, and Sully gives Sacramento young good prospects at the 1, 2, 3, and 4. They could then nab WCS in this draft and have a GREAT young core of Smart, Mcelmore, Young, Sully, and WCS. For us, Thompson would be us absorbing a bad contract, but we'd walk away with DMC and Stauskas (who they wouldn't exactly need with Mcelmore and Young). To me, this is a HUGE overpay that I'm not sure is worth it.

That proposed Kings team isn't any better than the Celtics this year - and they play in the West. I don't think there's any shot you're getting Cousins - who's under contract for three more years - for some role players of varying quality and a single mediocre first rounder. If the Kings are going to trade Cousins any time soon, they absolutely don't need to settle because there's no shot of losing him for several years. Expect them to hold out for an amazing offer because... they have all of the leverage. No pressure on them whatsoever to trade him.

That particular move would obviously be more about the future than the present, because Young, Smart, and Sully are all really young guys who have a lot of potential. It's not about being good now; that trade is about being good in the future. And you can't tell me that a young core of Smart, Mcelmore, Young, Sully, and WCS isn't one of the better young cores in the NBA. They may say that they want to stay competitive even if trading DMC, but so did Minny and look how that turned out.

[FreddieJ]

Way too much I agree. Let's face it Ray Allen was traded to Boston for 1 1st round pick and some players. Granted it was the #5 pick, and granted DMC is better than Ray Allen, but he's not worth 5 more 1st round picks!

Ray Allen was also injured and had some injury plagued seasons... that can't be discounted.

However, Allen was known as a conditioning freak and more importantly that Seattle was looking to move him. 

If SAC is forced to move Cousins, they're not getting equivalent value and no real GM's giving them 7 equivalent first rounders and 3 young players still on rookie deals who were first rounders and who haven't reached their potential (I concede that Young may
be a bust.)

Danny's very much an opportunist and a value investor. If a potential trade partner is under duress to make a trade, Danny's going to have the leverage and win the trade. If a third party enters the bidding, Danny will set a limit beyond which he'll walk away from the table. I think experience and, I suspect, watching how the Patriots operate helped him grow.

There is some deal Danny can pull together that should be right for the value of Cousins and I do think SAC would angle for Smart as he looks as if he will be a very good player.  If so, he goes and the accompanying draft picks are reduced accordingly.  You can always get backcourt players elsewhere.

After Danny got some GM experience under his belt, I've seen very little that he's done wrong other than guessing at players in the crapshoot draft. In Danny I trust not to do stupid deals.

Kings aren't under duress. They have him three more years and the entire league would bid for him

[MJohnnyboy]

If there was any way the Celtics could get both Cousins and Love this summer without giving up Smart, it would be the perfect summer. Cousins and Love would be the 1-2 punch the Celtics desperately need. Combine that with the Celtics getting a legit wing like Lance Stephenson (he was awful this year but I think in Brad Stevens' system he would be Turner on steroids).

The odds of all that happening though... Well I can dream can't I?

[Endless Paradise]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=no9xjzh

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n8s3o3l

I think a trade solely between Sacramento and Boston would have to look something similar to the first link above. Cousins, Thompson, and Stauskas for Wallace, Turner, Smart, Young, Sully, and our pick this year. Wallace and Turner are purely expiring contracts, but Smart, Young, and Sully gives Sacramento young good prospects at the 1, 2, 3, and 4. They could then nab WCS in this draft and have a GREAT young core of Smart, Mcelmore, Young, Sully, and WCS. For us, Thompson would be us absorbing a bad contract, but we'd walk away with DMC and Stauskas (who they wouldn't exactly need with Mcelmore and Young). To me, this is a HUGE overpay that I'm not sure is worth it.

That proposed Kings team isn't any better than the Celtics this year - and they play in the West. I don't think there's any shot you're getting Cousins - who's under contract for three more years - for some role players of varying quality and a single mediocre first rounder. If the Kings are going to trade Cousins any time soon, they absolutely don't need to settle because there's no shot of losing him for several years. Expect them to hold out for an amazing offer because... they have all of the leverage. No pressure on them whatsoever to trade him.

That particular move would obviously be more about the future than the present, because Young, Smart, and Sully are all really young guys who have a lot of potential. It's not about being good now; that trade is about being good in the future. And you can't tell me that a young core of Smart, Mcelmore, Young, Sully, and WCS isn't one of the better young cores in the NBA. They may say that they want to stay competitive even if trading DMC, but so did Minny and look how that turned out.

Young is a nonfactor; he's shown absolutely nothing yet to suggest that he's a viable NBA player, let's not kid ourselves. Sully's an iffy prospect with health/weight concerns and limited athleticism. Smart's still largely an unknown: he's shown nothing to indicate he'll be a bust, but he's also shown nothing to indicate he'll be more than a role player.

Phil Jackson's already said he'd be willing to trade the Knicks pick in this draft if the right situation presented itself (i.e. if Cousins suddenly became available). There's not a chance Sacramento would pass on the chance to draft the next potential Cousins with a top lottery pick for a pu pu platter of role players from a mediocre Celtics team and a middling draft prospect in WCS. Again, they absolutely do not have to settle for anything given his contract situation.

[Who]

Phil Jackson's already said he'd be willing to trade the Knicks pick in this draft if the right situation presented itself (i.e. if Cousins suddenly became available). There's not a chance Sacramento would pass on the chance to draft the next potential Cousins with a top lottery pick for a pu pu platter of role players from a mediocre Celtics team and a middling draft prospect in WCS.

Cousins would be a great fit in the Triangle offense. I'd like to see that.

[Vermont Green]

I can't see Sac trading Cousins. More likely, they package their young players and picks for some veteran talent to put around Cousins.  Cousins can't really force a trade. He will still be pretty young when he reaches UFA.   

[gpap]

If there was any way the Celtics could get both Cousins and Love this summer without giving up Smart, it would be the perfect summer. Cousins and Love would be the 1-2 punch the Celtics desperately need. Combine that with the Celtics getting a legit wing like Lance Stephenson (he was awful this year but I think in Brad Stevens' system he would be Turner on steroids).

The odds of all that happening though... Well I can dream can't I?

My dream as well!!(even though I wouldn't mind giving up Smart to get Cousins.)

[Hemingway]

If he could be had, I'd prefer to pay in lotto picks and keep the team together as much as possible. 6 picks sounds like a lot, but we would have: Smart/IT, AB, Turner/Crowder, Sully, DMC. plus we could still sign a max player. With DMC 1st tier freee agents would take us seriously. So 6 picks might sound like to much for DMC it is fair enough for Cousins and LMA/Lenard/Love. And with the cap jump next year we could add another max guy. 

[BDeCosta26]

I can't see Sac trading Cousins. More likely, they package their young players and picks for some veteran talent to put around Cousins.  Cousins can't really force a trade. He will still be pretty young when he reaches UFA.

I can see it going either way. And DA can benefit regardless. If they wanna build a team that can compete, so they can convince DMC to stay, we could give them some nice pieces that fit their team for #6. Or if Cousins wants out, we can give them a fair deal for him too.

And I'm not so sure Sacto has all the leverage. Everyone always says "Oh, well he's under contract so they don't have to trade him if they don't want to". Not 100% true. It becomes a huge circus around your team when someone says "trade me" and you don't do it . Then they threaten to hold out, you threaten them, they don't play, you don't pay and all the while that players trade value plummets. No team wants that mess, the all-powerful league office doesn't want that mess. If Cousins wants out, he can force his way out. If wants to force his way to a certain few teams (Please God!!), he can do that too. Maybe you can call their bluff if they're older and less productive (ala Stephon Marbury) but prob not with a guy like Cousins. The past few years have made it pretty clear that the players have the best leverage.

C'mon IT, tell him how awesome Stevens is and how much you love Boston. Or about how great your teammates are. Help us build this team to a chip!

[MikeJelly]

When can offseason trades start going down?