Simmons/Windhorst Podcast

[celticsclay]

I think making the playoffs has done weird things to people's minds not just in terms of the tank vs no tank debate, but on the actual quality of the team.

All year long, it seemed perfectly reasonable and "part of the plan" that the Cs were in the bottom 10 (or even 5) of the league. Suddenly our boys make an inspired run and grab the 7th seed and they start getting evaluated like the 14th best team. They draw a title contender with a "Big 3" in their prime right now and of course it's not going to go well.

Whoa, slow down with the common sense. How are people supposed to look smarter than others with this narrative?

It seems like sometimes this board becomes less about talking about the celtics, their players, and their games and more about people wanting to prove they were right in some opinion they held or posted in the past. I wish there was some way to cut that down.

[greece66]

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=12781423

Lot's of good Celtic talk there.  Some highlights.


On the series: 

-Windhorst:  "The Cavs margin of error against the Celtics was ENORMOUS.  They could play a C-level game and still win" (he goes on to say they could still probably beat the Bulls without Kevin Love since they still have the two best players in the series)

-Simmons:  "The Celtics were really well coached, they were totally outmatched from a talent standpoint, and Cleveland was bored playing them almost immediately.   They would get bored, Boston would claw back, and the Cleveland would be like "Ah... alright... Kyrie's going to score 10 points in 3 minutes"

Spot on.  I was saying pretty much the same thing in the threads and getting ripped apart for it. 

Sports journalists say these things because they desperately need attention.

[celticsclay]

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=12781423

Lot's of good Celtic talk there.  Some highlights.


On the series: 

-Windhorst:  "The Cavs margin of error against the Celtics was ENORMOUS.  They could play a C-level game and still win" (he goes on to say they could still probably beat the Bulls without Kevin Love since they still have the two best players in the series)

-Simmons:  "The Celtics were really well coached, they were totally outmatched from a talent standpoint, and Cleveland was bored playing them almost immediately.   They would get bored, Boston would claw back, and the Cleveland would be like "Ah... alright... Kyrie's going to score 10 points in 3 minutes"

Spot on.  I was saying pretty much the same thing in the threads and getting ripped apart for it. 

Sports journalists say these things because they desperately need attention.

TP

[PhoSita]

It seems like sometimes this board becomes less about talking about the celtics, their players, and their games and more about people wanting to prove they were right in some opinion they held or posted in the past.

Welcome ... to the Internet.

[LarBrd33]

Couldn't it be argued that Allen was a superior offensive player? 

Yes, which is why I noted that Marcus has a long way to go in order to become the finisher that TA is (and was).

Still, I just find it kind of amusing when people use the term "Rich Mans' Tony Allen" as some sort of derogatory statement about Marcus Smart's potential.  I'd LOVE to have a Rich Man's Tony Allen on my team.

Simmons said Smart could end up being a rich man's Tony Allen some day.  To me, it didn't sound like he was being derogatory.  Simmons likes Allen.  He was being generous and saying that Smart could end up being a really effective defensive role player that could someday make an impact on a contender.   

Basically they were saying that currently the team is filled with guys who wouldn't start on a good team.  WIndhorst doubted there was anyone on the roster that could even develop into a starter.   Simmons' comment was intended as a compliment for Smart.  Sure, he doesn't have star potential, but he could have a future as a key defensive role player.  I think it's a realistic hope.

[cb8883]

I'd say after year one Banks 2.0 is looking like a massive bust. Randle was the pick and Ainge blew it. Even Exum has a much higher ceiling but trader Danny was too scared to roll the dice. He picked the worst player out of the top 10! Banks is horrible and has no shooting touch much like his predecessor. Homeless man's Tony Allen indeed.

[greece66]

It seems like sometimes this board becomes less about talking about the celtics, their players, and their games and more about people wanting to prove they were right in some opinion they held or posted in the past.

Welcome ... to the Internet.

Have I told you the story of me predicting Philly was going to beat the Cavs?

[PhoSita]

Sure, he doesn't have star potential, but he could have a future as a key defensive role player.  I think it's a realistic hope.

Yeah, agreed.

[LarBrd33]

I think making the playoffs has done weird things to people's minds not just in terms of the tank vs no tank debate, but on the actual quality of the team.

All year long, it seemed perfectly reasonable and "part of the plan" that the Cs were in the bottom 10 (or even 5) of the league. Suddenly our boys make an inspired run and grab the 7th seed and they start getting evaluated like the 14th best team. They draw a title contender with a "Big 3" in their prime right now and of course it's not going to go well.

Whoa, slow down with the common sense. How are people supposed to look smarter than others with this narrative?

It seems like sometimes this board becomes less about talking about the celtics, their players, and their games and more about people wanting to prove they were right in some opinion they held or posted in the past. I wish there was some way to cut that down.

You cut it down by being less dismissive of opinions that you don't agree with.  When Celtic fans come here and share unpopular opinions, they are usually met with comments like, "TROLL!  HATER!! IDIOTIC!! ATTENTION-SEEKER!!, OUTLANDISH!!"... When the unpopular opinion is eventually proven right (like in the case of fans who pointed out Rondo's flaws), you can't blame those fans for wanting to point out their opinion wasn't outlandish. 

I've been on both sides of it.   There was a fan earlier this season who posted something like, "Celtics should sign Hassan Whitesite".  I was entirely dismissive of that fan.  Whiteside was just some random d-leaguer.  I think I posted something to the extent of "  " ...  I was one of the first to applaud that fan when he bumped the thread months later.   Just the nature of forum community.   It's all in good fun. 

[BitterJim]

I'd say after year one Banks 2.0 is looking like a massive bust. Randle was the pick and Ainge blew it. Even Exum has a much higher ceiling but trader Danny was too scared to roll the dice. He picked the worst player out of the top 10! Banks is horrible and has no shooting touch much like his predecessor. Homeless man's Tony Allen indeed.

How did Randle play this season? I must have missed him outplaying Smart

[greece66]

Couldn't it be argued that Allen was a superior offensive player? 

Yes, which is why I noted that Marcus has a long way to go in order to become the finisher that TA is (and was).

Still, I just find it kind of amusing when people use the term "Rich Mans' Tony Allen" as some sort of derogatory statement about Marcus Smart's potential.  I'd LOVE to have a Rich Man's Tony Allen on my team.

Simmons said Smart could end up being a rich man's Tony Allen some day.  To me, it didn't sound like he was being derogatory.  Simmons likes Allen.  He was being generous and saying that Smart could end up being a really effective defensive role player that could someday make an impact on a contender.   

Basically they were saying that currently the team is filled with guys who wouldn't start on a good team.  WIndhorst doubted there was anyone on the roster that could even develop into a starter.   Simmons' comment was intended as a compliment for Smart.  Sure, he doesn't have star potential, but he could have a future as a key defensive role player.  I think it's a realistic hope.

The underpinning of this discussion is that the C's are in trouble bcs they have no future all star.
IMO what we need now is a cohesive team (look how far Atlant went without having an all star calibre player): a core of players that work well together. And we have all the picks and salary cap in the world to add 1 or 2 all star caliber players who will turn this team in a contender in two, three years from now.
Btw, Allen played 26 mpg in a team with a 55-27 record and which is on its way to the second round of the playoffs. If Smart is going to turn out that bad lol then, Cheers to that!

[LarBrd33]

Couldn't it be argued that Allen was a superior offensive player? 

Yes, which is why I noted that Marcus has a long way to go in order to become the finisher that TA is (and was).

Still, I just find it kind of amusing when people use the term "Rich Mans' Tony Allen" as some sort of derogatory statement about Marcus Smart's potential.  I'd LOVE to have a Rich Man's Tony Allen on my team.

Simmons said Smart could end up being a rich man's Tony Allen some day.  To me, it didn't sound like he was being derogatory.  Simmons likes Allen.  He was being generous and saying that Smart could end up being a really effective defensive role player that could someday make an impact on a contender.   

Basically they were saying that currently the team is filled with guys who wouldn't start on a good team.  WIndhorst doubted there was anyone on the roster that could even develop into a starter.   Simmons' comment was intended as a compliment for Smart.  Sure, he doesn't have star potential, but he could have a future as a key defensive role player.  I think it's a realistic hope.

The underpinning of this discussion is that the C's are in trouble bcs they have no future all star.
IMO what we need now is a cohesive team (look how far Atlant went without having an all star calibre player): a core of players that work well together. And we have all the picks and salary cap in the world to add 1 or 2 all star caliber players who will turn this team in a contender in two, three years from now.
Btw, Allen played 26 mpg in a team with a 55-27 record and which is on its way to the second round of the playoffs. If Smart is going to turn out that bad lol then, Cheers to that!

How far did Atlanta go without an all-star caliber player?  Is your point that they needed 4 all-stars until they were relevant... and even then, nobody really took them seriously?    If-so, I agree.  The main message from the Simmons/Windhorst podcast seems to be that Boston is "Eyons away from being a real team" and it's going to take some kind of real trickery/luck for Ainge to dig us out of irrelevance.   As byennie pointed out, this is a 20-30 win team that won 40.   They are almost entirely devoid of real NBA talent.  It was admirable how much they overachieved.   Boston is in a tough position now.  No clear path towards landing star talent, but lots and lots and lots of hypothetical options.   We could be a contender next year with the right moves and a lot of luck.  We could be back in the lotto.  It could go either way, really.  This should be a really interesting Summer.

[celticsclay]

I think making the playoffs has done weird things to people's minds not just in terms of the tank vs no tank debate, but on the actual quality of the team.

All year long, it seemed perfectly reasonable and "part of the plan" that the Cs were in the bottom 10 (or even 5) of the league. Suddenly our boys make an inspired run and grab the 7th seed and they start getting evaluated like the 14th best team. They draw a title contender with a "Big 3" in their prime right now and of course it's not going to go well.

Whoa, slow down with the common sense. How are people supposed to look smarter than others with this narrative?

It seems like sometimes this board becomes less about talking about the celtics, their players, and their games and more about people wanting to prove they were right in some opinion they held or posted in the past. I wish there was some way to cut that down.

You cut it down by being less dismissive of opinions that you don't agree with.  When Celtic fans come here and share unpopular opinions, they are usually met with comments like, "TROLL!  HATER!! IDIOTIC!! ATTENTION-SEEKER!!, OUTLANDISH!!"... When the unpopular opinion is eventually proven right (like in the case of fans who pointed out Rondo's flaws), you can't blame those fans for wanting to point out their opinion wasn't outlandish. 

I've been on both sides of it.   There was a fan earlier this season who posted something like, "Celtics should sign Hassan Whitesite".  I was entirely dismissive of that fan.  Whiteside was just some random d-leaguer.  I think I posted something to the extent of "  " ...  I was one of the first to applaud that fan when he bumped the thread months later.

Your way of writing this is pretty confusing. If this is directed at me I am near positive I pretty much never call people haters or idiotic (that stuff isn't even within the forum rules). I certainly don't write posts in all caps or with lots of exclamation points. I have called a few things outlandish, but generally in these cases if you  sat the person down they would probably admit that they were trying to be provacative or promote a response and the idea was actually a little outlandish. For example, the point I raised the other day where you said you predicted Lebron would average 15 assists as a 46 year old I think is fair to call outlandish because you later said it was tongue in cheek, though at the time you passed it off as serious.

Generally, I think thread bumping is really poor form and also am not sure it is even allowed here either. You have to think that if everyone did this and tried to prove they were right about things, the board would be absolutely nothing but that. This board is people constantly expressing opinions and other people disagreeing with them and explaining why. So someone is always going to be right (or more right) and someone will also be a little more wrong if they disagree. That is kind of the point. But if it devolves into people just rehashing old arguments forever (the rondo debate) than it is probably a lot less pleasant for the average fan here to discuss celtics basketball.

[greece66]

I'd say after year one Banks 2.0 is looking like a massive bust. Randle was the pick and Ainge blew it. Even Exum has a much higher ceiling but trader Danny was too scared to roll the dice. He picked the worst player out of the top 10! Banks is horrible and has no shooting touch much like his predecessor. Homeless man's Tony Allen indeed.

Exum was the 5th pick

[greece66]

@LarBrd33
No, the point was that Atlanta went as far as it did because it had a good team not stars.