Simmons/Windhorst Podcast

[LarBrd33]

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=12781423

Lot's of good Celtic talk there.  Some highlights.


On the series: 

-Windhorst:  "The Cavs margin of error against the Celtics was ENORMOUS.  They could play a C-level game and still win" (he goes on to say they could still probably beat the Bulls without Kevin Love since they still have the two best players in the series)

-Simmons:  "The Celtics were really well coached, they were totally outmatched from a talent standpoint, and Cleveland was bored playing them almost immediately.   They would get bored, Boston would claw back, and the Cleveland would be like "Ah... alright... Kyrie's going to score 10 points in 3 minutes"

Spot on.  I was saying pretty much the same thing in the threads and getting ripped apart for it.  Cavs were sleepwalking through most of that series.  Whenever Boston would go on a run, they'd wake up a bit and knock us back a few possessions to give themselves a nice buffer.  There was never a threat of Boston actually winning.  Cavs were always in control.

On our talent:

-Windhorst:  "The Celtics are an EON away from being a real team... They overachieved this year... Brad Stevens is a great coach... but the Celtics don't have anybody who honestly would be in the top 3 on a good team"

-Simmons:  "If you look at the top 9 playoff teams, I'm not positive any Celtic starts for them"

-Windhorst:  "It's not like there's a guy on the roster who is coming in that direction"

-Simmons:  "It's a beautiful meal that doesn't have an entree... just a ton of appetizers"

-Simmons:  "I learned that Marcus Smart has a long way to go, but at the very least can be a rich man's Tony Allen" 

-Simmons:  "I learned that Isaiah Thomas has limitations... Iman Shumpert shut him down"

Neither sounded too optimistic about Danny's chances of landing legitimate talent here.  They weren't completely negative on our players.  They had nice things to say about role players like Crowder and what he can provide to a team's bench, but were quick to point out how unlikely it is that Ainge will be able to trade a package of Jae Crowder and draft picks for a star.

Lots of comments about Olynyk/Love.  Simmons doesn't think he's a dirty player... just uncoordinated.  The players were told by Stevens to be aggressive with offensive rebounds and that play was partially a reaction to that.

There's also some interesting stuff in there about the origin of the Pierce/LeBron rivalry... going back to a preseason game in 2004 where Pierce spat at the Cavs bench and the two players almost got into a fight after the game.  Here's a related old Grantland article about the rivalry:  http://grantland.com/the-triangle/a-brief-history-of-lebron-james-vs-paul-pierce/

Nice podcast.  Worth a listen.

[j804]

I wanna see a wiz cavs ECF

[LarBrd33]

I wanna see a wiz cavs ECF

would be fun to see another pierce vs LeBron matchup.

[cb8883]

Absolutely agree with Windhorst. The Celtics are a long way away with no plan in sight to change this. No big free agents will ever come to Boston. They need to Tank! Tank really hard next year after they screwed this tank up royally this year. 2017 they actually need to make the playoffs to swap the Brooklyn pick but hopefully after next years tank they'll get that star that's needed to compete.

[Mike]

I agree that the Celtics lack talent and overachieved.

I entirely disagree, however, that the Cavs were bored most of the time and played with an "enormous" margin of error.  It seemed like the Cavs hit every big shot when they needed to, got calls from the refs down the stretch (in the first two games, at least), and still weren't blowing the Cetlcis out of the water.  A missed shot by the Cavs here, an open make for the Celtics there, along with even officiating down the stretch, and the Celtics may have pulled out a game or two. 

I also got the sense that the Cavs were playing all-out the entire series; it just never seemed like they were coasting.  I wouldn't call that an "enormous" margin of error.

[The One]

Being an eon away is very discouraging. 

[e4sym0de]

Absolutely agree with Windhorst. The Celtics are a long way away with no plan in sight to change this. No big free agents will ever come to Boston. They need to Tank! Tank really hard next year after they screwed this tank up royally this year. 2017 they actually need to make the playoffs to swap the Brooklyn pick but hopefully after next years tank they'll get that star that's needed to compete.

If we rip this team apart further and tank hard next year, where is this star coming from that puts us  in the Playoffs in 2017?

[jambr380]

Being an eon away is very discouraging.

Yeah, but that is just because we have really young players. Guys like Smart, Sully, and Thomas can still develop or at least be huge pieces used to get a star. I don't particularly like this conversation between Simmons and Windhorst and the thread is going to turn into an 'I told you so' kind-of thing with others being forced to defend what we have. A FA acquisition, big trade, early lottery pick (BKN), etc could turn this team into something legitimate. And there's no reason any of those things can't happen.

So we don't have a particular direction right now - oh well, we have so many options and I think Danny likes it that way. I do agree that we need to hold on to Crowder, although his short playoff stint probably got him an extra couple million/yr.

[Greyman]

Didn't enjoy the conversation much. Everybody knows the Cavs are better than the C's, so the question became, 'how much better'? They swept the series, they had plenty in reserve and this was a weak East where nobody expected any upsets in the first round of playoff games V the Cavs.

We know very little more about how the Cavs will perform in the future from this series. But we really knew this would be the case prior to the Celtics - Cavs series starting.

For Celtics fans we have confirmation that we really need two or three players. The real question is, can we make the moves with current assets this offseason?

The team showed that we have a number of competitive pieces but also that it could be blown up if the right players were available. No player is really safe. An unusual place to be in considering the team made the playoffs.

The conversation predicted that the Celtics would do little this off season and certainly not enough to be a contender next season. They may be right, the C's may have to stockpile and wait another season to really improve. I can live with that, because the reward is still just around the corner. I also have a sneaky feeling DA has something up his sleeve that results in success coming sooner rather than later.

To sum up, the experts told us very little that fans could not assess for themselves.

[GC003332]

If you think guys playing in the first playoff series(love,Irving,Thompson, Dellavedova) Mosgov only second ever playoff series and  their head coach are going to sleepwalk through it well there is really nothing left to be said. That is just insulting to their integrity as a professional NBA basketball players.

[JohnBoy65]

I think Simmons was spot on. I agree the Cavs seemed bored at times. Taking 3s early in the shot clock they didn't need to take, had comfortable lead at 10-14 then the Celts would go on a run due to the lackluster play of the Cavs. Once the C's got it down to 5 or so the Cavs swarmed all over the place on D, and picked up the offensive intensity.

Problem is, hopefully they think they can do that all playoffs long and get hit hard in one of the next 2 series.

[D.o.s.]

Didn't enjoy the conversation much. Everybody knows the Cavs are better than the C's, so the question became, 'how much better'? They swept the series, they had plenty in reserve and this was a weak East where nobody expected any upsets in the first round of playoff games V the Cavs.

We know very little more about how the Cavs will perform in the future from this series. But we really knew this would be the case prior to the Celtics - Cavs series starting.

For Celtics fans we have confirmation that we really need two or three players. The real question is, can we make the moves with current assets this offseason?

The team showed that we have a number of competitive pieces but also that it could be blown up if the right players were available. No player is really safe. An unusual place to be in considering the team made the playoffs.

The conversation predicted that the Celtics would do little this off season and certainly not enough to be a contender next season. They may be right, the C's may have to stockpile and wait another season to really improve. I can live with that, because the reward is still just around the corner. I also have a sneaky feeling DA has something up his sleeve that results in success coming sooner rather than later.

To sum up, the experts told us very little that fans could not assess for themselves.

Simmons and Windhost are experts?

[PhoSita]

I agree, the Cavs were bored.  The Celts didn't truly challenge the Cavs, and they are an eon away.  Not just because they are young.

Bill made the point that all a team really needs is two superstars and then after that everybody else is a role player, even if they'd be a star on another team.  In that sense, I think the Celtics do have a few guys (Thomas, Smart, Sullinger) who could, if they continue to improve and refine their games, be that top role player / third banana on a good team with the right top two.


Paul Pierce sounds like an epic, historically annoying tool when it comes to on court bravado and trash-talking.  Glad he and KG were on my team.  Would have despised them otherwise.

[MBunge]

If Boston is an eon away, where is Toronto?  Or New Orleans?  Or Dallas?

Mike

[PhoSita]

If Boston is an eon away, where is Toronto?  Or New Orleans?  Or Dallas?

Mike

In order -- 

on the precipice of either making a big move to take the next step, or tearing it all down;

on the up and up with a generational talent, but more moves needed to create a supporting cast;

and finally, still competitive but on the verge of a rebuild, with the possibility of one or two quality seasons with the core star still possible (similar to where the Celts were in 2012-2013).



Each of those teams is a significant distance from being a contender, but it's not hard to see how a few moves, if they all go right, could vault that team into the top 6 or 7 in the league.  So, definitely not an eon away.