Zach Lowe Speculates the Jazz could want Bradley. Would you trade him for #12 ?

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

pick twelve for bradley sends this team in a horrible direction. we are not the sixers

You've traded 2 HOF, an all-star and your leading scorer for draft picks within the past few years. Let's not act like this is unconscionable.

I don't mean this to sound harsh but why are you here?

Why not. I like to talk about basketball.

Because you are a philly fan who seems I have no intention of contributing outside of tellin is we have done a terrible job rebuildin and philly is awesome and perfect and fantastic.

I suppose it's nice to get another teams perspective but I don't get it from your perspective.

Where have I said any of that?

I think Ainge is a very good GM and Stevens is a very good coach.

[Ilikesports17]

pick twelve for bradley sends this team in a horrible direction. we are not the sixers

You've traded 2 HOF, an all-star and your leading scorer for draft picks within the past few years. Let's not act like this is unconscionable.

I don't mean this to sound harsh but why are you here?

Why not. I like to talk about basketball.

Because you are a philly fan who seems I have no intention of contributing outside of tellin is we have done a terrible job rebuildin and philly is awesome and perfect and fantastic.

I suppose it's nice to get another teams perspective but I don't get it from your perspective.

Where have I said any of that?

I think Ainge is a very good GM and Stevens is a very good coach.

Well then, this is awkward. I must have gotten you confused with another poster.

Apologies and a TP for dealing with my douchiness

[slamtheking]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/pick-or-trade-what-should-the-jazz-do-to-make-the-leap/

" Avery Bradley

Again: Utah may look at wing players before point guards, since you need two of them on the court at once. Bradley is perfect. He’s about the same age as Favors and Hayward, he’s content working for off-ball jumpers at the shooting-guard spot while Hayward works the pick-and-roll, and he would give Utah a third vicious defender in the starting lineup.

He’s also locked up on a nice contract through 2017-18.

The Celtics turned down offers of a late first-round pick for Bradley at the deadline, but perhaps a pick about 10 spots higher than that would tempt Danny Ainge. What if Utah tossed in Hood?

It’s a long shot. Boston has too many first-round picks as it is, and Ainge adores Bradley. The Celtics are more likely to package some of their own late first-round picks to try to move up in the draft. "

Would Utah give up their #12 pick for Avery Bradley + the Clippers pick?

Would we be happy with a return like this for Bradley? I would be VERY happy with this, I think a top 15 pick for Avery Bradley is a nice return.

If we ended up with the 13th pick, and Utah gets the 12th pick, I'd honestly rather do whatever we have to do to move up and secure Heznoja or Porzingis if they are still at #8 and #9.
I think with a Brooklyn pick we should be able to move up from #12 or #13 into the top 10.

Charlotte, Detroit, Denver or Atlanta should have a shot at getting either one of those guys.
ie:
Celtics send:
2015 pick#12
Clippers pick#26
Brooklyn pick 2016

Celtics receive #7 or #8 pick +a future 2nd round pick.

I believe that Ainge will do this for Heznoja (after reports said he was watching him at a Barcelona game recently and supposedly loves Heznoja). I personally would love Porzingis above all else but he may go top 5 or 6.

So if we could get our hands on the #8 pick AND the Jazz #12 pick, which two players would you take with them?

why are you always so eager to overpay in trades?   you consistently like to throw away picks like they're pennies.

If Utah wants to give up #12 for AB straight up I'd probably take it.   AB and Clips pick for #12 and Hood?  maybe.  not sold on Hood yet.

[vjcsmoke]

#12 is not a good enough pick for Bradley.

IMO drafting late lottery is a big risk.

Here are all the #12 picks since 2000:

2014 Dario Saric
2013 Steven Adams
2012 Jeremy Lamb
2011 Alec Burks
2010 Xavier Henry
2009 Gerald Henderson
2008 Jason Thompson
2007 Thaddeus Young
2006 Hilton Armstrong
2005 Yaroslav Korolev
2004 Robert Swift
2003 Nick Collison
2002 Melvin Ely
2001 Vladimir Radmanovic
2000 Etan Thomas

Not exactly a list of worldbeaters taken at the #12 spot.
Now if we trade Bradley plus something else for a top 8 pick, I'm on board with that scenario.

I think lotto picks are generally more valuable than good players on reasonable non-max deals. A guy like Bradley can slightly outperform his salary, but that's about it. You also have to factor in the risk that he gets injured, leaving you with lots of dead salary. On the other hand, a lotto pick with upside has potential to greatly outperform his rookie-scale salary, and even if he doesn't, you're not on the hook for much money at all. Then if you get really lucky, you end up with a guy that can continue providing great value even on his second, max contract.

Your theory works unless we draft a dud at #12.  And based on the list of players taken in the past.  We're not likely to draft a better player at #12 than Bradley, most likely he would be a worse player.  And besides that most players come into the NBA needing development time.  So even if the player had a higher 'ceiling' than Bradley, his actual NBA effectiveness would be significantly less until he had 'broken in'.

Like I said, it would have to be an early lottery pick with all-star potential for me to consider moving Bradley.  #12 or late lottery are borderline picks that turn into duds to mediocre players more often than note.  Perhaps 5 players taken in the 1st round each year are starters/impact players.  The rest turn into rotation/backup players or wash out of the league in a few years.

[chambers]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/pick-or-trade-what-should-the-jazz-do-to-make-the-leap/

" Avery Bradley

Again: Utah may look at wing players before point guards, since you need two of them on the court at once. Bradley is perfect. He’s about the same age as Favors and Hayward, he’s content working for off-ball jumpers at the shooting-guard spot while Hayward works the pick-and-roll, and he would give Utah a third vicious defender in the starting lineup.

He’s also locked up on a nice contract through 2017-18.

The Celtics turned down offers of a late first-round pick for Bradley at the deadline, but perhaps a pick about 10 spots higher than that would tempt Danny Ainge. What if Utah tossed in Hood?

It’s a long shot. Boston has too many first-round picks as it is, and Ainge adores Bradley. The Celtics are more likely to package some of their own late first-round picks to try to move up in the draft. "

Would Utah give up their #12 pick for Avery Bradley + the Clippers pick?

Would we be happy with a return like this for Bradley? I would be VERY happy with this, I think a top 15 pick for Avery Bradley is a nice return.

If we ended up with the 13th pick, and Utah gets the 12th pick, I'd honestly rather do whatever we have to do to move up and secure Heznoja or Porzingis if they are still at #8 and #9.
I think with a Brooklyn pick we should be able to move up from #12 or #13 into the top 10.

Charlotte, Detroit, Denver or Atlanta should have a shot at getting either one of those guys.
ie:
Celtics send:
2015 pick#12
Clippers pick#26
Brooklyn pick 2016

Celtics receive #7 or #8 pick +a future 2nd round pick.

I believe that Ainge will do this for Heznoja (after reports said he was watching him at a Barcelona game recently and supposedly loves Heznoja). I personally would love Porzingis above all else but he may go top 5 or 6.

So if we could get our hands on the #8 pick AND the Jazz #12 pick, which two players would you take with them?

why are you always so eager to overpay in trades?   you consistently like to throw away picks like they're pennies.

If Utah wants to give up #12 for AB straight up I'd probably take it.   AB and Clips pick for #12 and Hood?  maybe.  not sold on Hood yet.

Eager to overpay? That's a pretty generalized statement and it's not like I've suggested Marcus Smart and a Brooklyn pick... jesus lol.

 Perhaps I put a realistic price on trades as opposed to the majority of one sided homer trade scenarios you're used to fantasizing about. The Clippers pick is #25 at this stage, which is 5 spots away from being a second round pick.
 Did you see the reports that other teams offered late first round picks for Avery Bradley and Danny Ainge turned them down? Now throw in Clippers pick #25 and instead of a late first rounder you get a lottery pick in a deep draft. You also clear Avery's cap room and the log jam at the guard spot.
 
It also gives us the ability to move into the top 8 picks if we like a particular guy by either giving up a Brooklyn pick or combining picks #12 (Jazz) and #13 (our own if no playoffs). If Danny thinks that Mario Heznoja or Porzingris are significant risk worthy assets then why wouldn't he consider this? 

Just because Danny likes to make bargain deals, doesn't mean that every team is going to agree to getting hosed- they have to see potential value too.

So no, this isn't an overpay by any means. Bradley is an undersized, solid role player on a mediocre/bad team with a career rating of -9 when he's on the court. Great defender, loves to put up inefficient long two point shots and is okay shooting the three.

What else would you expect to get for the guy? If you're going to suggest such scenarios as 'overpays' then I suggest you take off the green glasses for criticizing what most people would consider a high value, fair trade idea.... and about the most we could ever hope to get for Avery Bradley. Plenty of people would actually consider this an underpay or 'selling high' on an ultimately limited role player.

[Kuberski1]

In a word...NO.  AB has developed into a very nice player (who would have thought it watching his rookie year).  His defense, while maybe not as intense as when he first started, is still very good, especially when it needs to be.  Where he has really turned the corner is offense....he has a nice mid-range jumper, can hit the corner 3, is a decent (though not great) passer, and has reduced his turnovers.  No guarantee you'd get better, even as good, at 12.  Definitely pass....assuming the rumor has legs....AB could be a solid rotation player on a good to very good team.

[Chief Macho]

No way Ainge does that. 

[Csfan1984]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Celtics will only have that cap space if they renounce not only the rights to Bass and Jerebko, but also the MLE, and the two large TPEs ($12.9 mil, $7.7 mil) from the Rondo and Prince trades.

I'd much rather Ainge use those other assets, rather than chase cap space this offseason.

Returning to the Bradley to Utah scenario, I'd much rather send Bradley, Sullinger, and picks to Utah for Derrick Favors. A long shot, perhaps, but Sullinger as a stretch four next to Gobert, plus Bradley, plus picks, seems like a decent haul for Utah if they decide that Favors isn't untouchable.

AB, Sully and picks for Favors is huge over pay even if you take picks out. Perhaps if the teams swapped their picks and C's also got Hood. Say AB, Sully, Philly 2015 2nd and 15th pick for Favors, Hood and 12.

You are vastly underrating Favors.  Favors is a 23 year old averaging 16.4 points, 8.2 boards, and 1.4 blocks a game playing only 31 minutes a game, based on 36 minutes a game his numbers go to 18.8/9.4/2.  Again he is only 23 but he has 5 Offensive Win Share and a 3.1 Defensive Win Share for a total of 8.1 Win Share (which is great!!!!) this season.  He would be a huge addition for the Celtics as a scorer and rim protector, especially because he is now signed long term to an affordable deal.  There is no way Utah would trade him in my opinion.

I honestly don't care much about his numbers. I have actually watched a bunch of Jazz games this year and he has not impressed me at all. His offense and D are average, though there is some credit to having both be respectable given today bad big men. It's an overpay.

[kozlodoev]

Bradley may be limited and/or overpaid, but I'd rarely trade a known commodity for a pick unless it's daylight robbery

[MikeJelly]

What about this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qa8fgzh

Sully, AB, Jerekbo and pick(s) for Favors and #12

I'd say its pretty fair.
Jazz still have a starting PF, they get their AB and hustle player in Jerekbo (also expiring) also pick(s)
C's get Favor's and the #12 pick

THEN: Package: #12 (Or our pick) with the Clips pick and a second rounder (Poss Philli's if need be) for around the #8 pick. Pick Winslow or Johnson. Hopefully use the first rounder we didn't trade to take Turner.

Future:
Smart
Young (Give him a change to blossom)
Winslow
Favors (Only 23!!!!)
Turner

LOADS of potential. and this is without any free agent we could get

[Csfan1984]

What about this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qa8fgzh

Sully, AB, Jerekbo and pick(s) for Favors and #12

I'd say its pretty fair.
Jazz still have a starting PF, they get their AB and hustle player in Jerekbo (also expiring) also pick(s)
C's get Favor's and the #12 pick

THEN: Package: #12 (Or our pick) with the Clips pick and a second rounder (Poss Philli's if need be) for around the #8 pick. Pick Winslow or Johnson. Hopefully use the first rounder we didn't trade to take Turner.

Future:
Smart
Young (Give him a change to blossom)
Winslow
Favors (Only 23!!!!)
Turner

LOADS of potential. and this is without any free agent we could get

Which picks? And Jerekbo will be a FA.

[mef730]

What about this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qa8fgzh

Sully, AB, Jerekbo and pick(s) for Favors and #12

I'd say its pretty fair.
Jazz still have a starting PF, they get their AB and hustle player in Jerekbo (also expiring) also pick(s)
C's get Favor's and the #12 pick

THEN: Package: #12 (Or our pick) with the Clips pick and a second rounder (Poss Philli's if need be) for around the #8 pick. Pick Winslow or Johnson. Hopefully use the first rounder we didn't trade to take Turner.

Future:
Smart
Young (Give him a change to blossom)
Winslow
Favors (Only 23!!!!)
Turner

LOADS of potential. and this is without any free agent we could get

Sure, I'd do either of those trades (with option #1 depending on what picks we'd give up).  But I'm a Celtics fan.  I think the first one is unlikely, the second virtually impossible.  If we could pull that second off, I'd personally dress up like Biff from Back to the Future and wax/wash DA's car every week for a year.

Mike

[arctic 3.0]

If WCS is available at 12 then yes.
We have D dogs who can fill Bradley's role and we get a mobile shot swatting center to address our biggest need.
I'm sure we can more than fill Bradley's offensive contribution through FA.
Smart, IT
Turner, crowder
FA, crowder, turner
Sully, Oly (or better)
WCS, Zeller

[Moranis]

#12 is not a good enough pick for Bradley.

IMO drafting late lottery is a big risk.

Here are all the #12 picks since 2000:

2014 Dario Saric
2013 Steven Adams
2012 Jeremy Lamb
2011 Alec Burks
2010 Xavier Henry
2009 Gerald Henderson
2008 Jason Thompson
2007 Thaddeus Young
2006 Hilton Armstrong
2005 Yaroslav Korolev
2004 Robert Swift
2003 Nick Collison
2002 Melvin Ely
2001 Vladimir Radmanovic
2000 Etan Thomas

Not exactly a list of worldbeaters taken at the #12 spot.
Now if we trade Bradley plus something else for a top 8 pick, I'm on board with that scenario.

I think lotto picks are generally more valuable than good players on reasonable non-max deals. A guy like Bradley can slightly outperform his salary, but that's about it. You also have to factor in the risk that he gets injured, leaving you with lots of dead salary. On the other hand, a lotto pick with upside has potential to greatly outperform his rookie-scale salary, and even if he doesn't, you're not on the hook for much money at all. Then if you get really lucky, you end up with a guy that can continue providing great value even on his second, max contract.

Your theory works unless we draft a dud at #12.  And based on the list of players taken in the past.  We're not likely to draft a better player at #12 than Bradley, most likely he would be a worse player.  And besides that most players come into the NBA needing development time.  So even if the player had a higher 'ceiling' than Bradley, his actual NBA effectiveness would be significantly less until he had 'broken in'.

Like I said, it would have to be an early lottery pick with all-star potential for me to consider moving Bradley.  #12 or late lottery are borderline picks that turn into duds to mediocre players more often than note.  Perhaps 5 players taken in the 1st round each year are starters/impact players.  The rest turn into rotation/backup players or wash out of the league in a few years.

5 players are starters/impact players each draft.  Since when?  Even terrible drafts like 2000 had more than 5 players from the 1st round go on to be effective starters (though no impact players from that draft).  Now whether or not you get someone better than Bradley can certainly be debated, but if Boston thinks this is one of those deeper drafts where they can get a real talent at 12, then that is a trade Ainge would consider. 

[Irish Stew]

Bradley's contract will be a bargain in two summers when money floods the free agent market so I would only trade him for Utah's pick to combine with our other two 1st round picks and trade for Noel. I would then also make an above market offer for Khris Middleton who can play both the the 2 and 3. Stevens would love him with his 40+% 3 point shooting. Combine these two moves with a slimmed down Sullinger, a 4th seed in the East might not be out of reach.