C's pursuing Cousins per Sam Smith

[KeepRondo]

I guess that depends on how you value Cousins. Here is a list of guys who were top 10 draft picks from 2007 to 2012.

Anthony Davis
Damian Lilliard
Bradley Beal
Andre Drummond
Kyrie Irving
Brandon Knight
Klay Thompson(11th)
John Wall
Cousins(himself)
Paul George
Blake Griffin
James Harden
Step Curry
Demar DeRozan
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Love
Kevin Durant
Mike Conley
Joakim Noah
Al Harford

That's 21 players in 6 draft classes. That is almost 4 players in the top 10 that were great picks. Unless I'm valuing Cousins at the top of this list, then I'm never giving up 2-3 chances at getting picks in this range.

It's a fair point, but I would counter a few things:

1) It's a strong list, but I think Cousins still goes top-10 in a redraft of those years. He's that good... 24-12-3-2-1 and strong defender. After Durant, Davis and maybe one or two other guys he's at least in the 2nd tier. Maybe top 4-8 with George, Westbrook, Curry, Harden. So out of 60 picks, I would say you have about a 1 in 7 shot of getting a player as good or better than Cousins. Picking 3 times less than 50%.

2) You conveniently ran your draft range from Kevin Durant to Anthony Davis. If you include 2004 and 2013 you might get two more guys on the list (Chris Paul and Dwight Howard). Suddenly it's more like 20 players out of 80. Add 2003 and you get that killer draft (LeBron, Carmelo, Wade, Bosh) but they all went top-5 and would be pursued by a major tankathon (see below).

3) The Nets picks are unlikely to be top-5. That would rule out Durant, Davis, Paul, Wall, Westbrook, Harden, Love, Conley, Rose, Irving, Howard and Beal. Brooklyn may be bad, but they are a major market team that doesn't own their own picks. They have no reason to tank and the money to win, despite their roster issues. Even if they are in the lottery every year, it's more likely to be in the 8-14 range. Top-5 would require around 25 wins and down for a team that's likely to be spending $100M with no incentive to lose.

Thx for the reasonable response.

I didn't conveniently leave out the drafts you mentioned. I left the last two years off due to it being too early to determine the value of the players. Also, the year that Lebron came out, you could say that the GMs, uncharacteristically, just got it right that year. And even that is incorrect to say because Joe Dumars missed badly on his pick.

Also, you might be right about Brooklyn. But they have an Owner who wants to sell and has been on the record saying he wants to trim the payroll. He basically can't sell this team for max value until he cleans up the mess he made. I can't see him attempting a second round of this.

[KeepRondo]

That's 21 players in 6 draft classes. That is almost 4 players in the top 10 that were great picks. Unless I'm valuing Cousins at the top of this list, then I'm never giving up 2-3 chances at getting picks in this range.

Your assuming that our picks will be in the top range, look at where we stand and where the clips stand our pick has a chance to be outside the top ten and so does the clippers.   In fact, the chances are much higher they will not be top ten.   Next year it may be different but we only have so many minutes to go around and not all the guys will get to develop even if we keep all the picks, which we will not I would wager.

hey man. The picks in question are the picks from Brooklyn.

[Endless Paradise]

Those Brooklyn picks could easily end up producing multiple players near or better then Cousins. I would give up one of them only.

Easily multiple players better than Cousins? All 3 picks could end up in the lottery and the odds would still be strongly against getting a single All-NBA center. Getting him for 1 of them is laughable.

This is over shooting for a very high risk player. And those Brooklyn picks could easily be top 5 picks. I don't see what's so unlikely that those picks couldn't produce more value then Cousins.

If we were talking about a Russell Westbrook type of player then I would make this trade.

This is what I was getting at when I suggested the fetishization of first rounders in recent times is absolutely ridiculous.

ok Steven A Smith

So disrespectful.

Absolutely just a joke 

As was my comment.

[KeepRondo]

I highly doubt Cousins is going anywhere, but my "all in" trade would be:

Wallace, Bradley, Zeller, and 5x 1st rounders
Brooklyn 2016, 2017, 2018, Cleveland (unprotected in 2019), Memphis (2017-2021 lesser protections)

AFAIK that would be the most picks ever traded for one player, and Bradley + Zeller are both useful players.

This would leave us with our own picks, plus a core of:
Smart, Young, Olynyk, Sullinger, Turner, Cousins @ $27M

We could sign 2 max free agents in the offseason, and likely gear up for another S&T the next summer. Let's say Butler & Green, and we draft Cauley-Stein as a high value defensive role player:

Smart / (vet min / exception?)
J Butler / Young
D Green / Turner
Sullinger / Olynyk
Cousins / Cauley-Stein

That team would be scary defensively with up to 5 All-Defensive caliber players (Smart, Butler, Green, Cousins, Cauley-Stein), and multiple scorers (Cousins, Sullinger, Butler, Olynyk and hopefully Young).

We would *still* own all of our own picks, plus anything we get for Bass or Prince or Thornton.

Those Brooklyn picks could easily end up producing multiple players near or better then Cousins. I would give up one of them only.

Two quick points:
1)  We don't have Brooklyn's 2017 draft pick.  Instead, we have the possibility to swap our pick with theirs.

2)  The Brooklyn picks, however you look at it, don't easily have a probability of producing multiple players near or better than Cousins.  This is very wishful thinking.  Having said that...

...I would agree that Bradley, Zeller & 5 1sts is probably too steep for someone.  But I do want to see Cousins.  I'd rather trade our own #1 pick in 2016/2018 than the Brooklyn picks.  I'd be up for something like:

Sullinger, Wallace, Clippers #1, Dallas' pick (from Rondo trade), Celtics 2016 pick, Cleveland pick, and Memphis pick.  If I had to trade a Brooklyn pick I'd trade the 2018 pick.

For Sacramento to consider moving one of the best talents in the league I'm assuming they'd want major assets. Those look like periphery assets.

Kings hold leverage. He is under contract for three more years and the rest of the league would give quality offers

Right so don't trade with a team who has the upper hand. You will get fleeced. No way should we give up all those picks we get from Brooklyn.

[manl_lui]

I highly doubt Cousins is going anywhere, but my "all in" trade would be:

Wallace, Bradley, Zeller, and 5x 1st rounders
Brooklyn 2016, 2017, 2018, Cleveland (unprotected in 2019), Memphis (2017-2021 lesser protections)

AFAIK that would be the most picks ever traded for one player, and Bradley + Zeller are both useful players.

This would leave us with our own picks, plus a core of:
Smart, Young, Olynyk, Sullinger, Turner, Cousins @ $27M

We could sign 2 max free agents in the offseason, and likely gear up for another S&T the next summer. Let's say Butler & Green, and we draft Cauley-Stein as a high value defensive role player:

Smart / (vet min / exception?)
J Butler / Young
D Green / Turner
Sullinger / Olynyk
Cousins / Cauley-Stein

That team would be scary defensively with up to 5 All-Defensive caliber players (Smart, Butler, Green, Cousins, Cauley-Stein), and multiple scorers (Cousins, Sullinger, Butler, Olynyk and hopefully Young).

We would *still* own all of our own picks, plus anything we get for Bass or Prince or Thornton.

Those Brooklyn picks could easily end up producing multiple players near or better then Cousins. I would give up one of them only.

Two quick points:
1)  We don't have Brooklyn's 2017 draft pick.  Instead, we have the possibility to swap our pick with theirs.

2)  The Brooklyn picks, however you look at it, don't easily have a probability of producing multiple players near or better than Cousins.  This is very wishful thinking.  Having said that...

...I would agree that Bradley, Zeller & 5 1sts is probably too steep for someone.  But I do want to see Cousins.  I'd rather trade our own #1 pick in 2016/2018 than the Brooklyn picks.  I'd be up for something like:

Sullinger, Wallace, Clippers #1, Dallas' pick (from Rondo trade), Celtics 2016 pick, Cleveland pick, and Memphis pick.  If I had to trade a Brooklyn pick I'd trade the 2018 pick.

For Sacramento to consider moving one of the best talents in the league I'm assuming they'd want major assets. Those look like periphery assets.

Kings hold leverage. He is under contract for three more years and the rest of the league would give quality offers

Right so don't trade with a team who has the upper hand. You will get fleeced. No way should we give up all those picks we get from Brooklyn.

sorry I'm late to this

I do not think we can even get SacTown to listen unless we include either Sully or KO in the deal. Also, if we get Cousins, I believe him alone with whoever left on our roster (assuming Turner and Smart or Bradley are still here), can get us to the 8th seed. With that being said, Cauley Stein is projected to go in the top 10, so if we make 8th seed, we don't get into the lottery, unless we trade up.

I'm all for gutting the entire roster (with Smart and Young still on board) and giving SacTown like 3-5 of our 1st round picks like you suggested for Cousins. I'd do it in a heartbeat but not sure if SacTown would

[ssspence]

I stated a few days ago that the never ending "Blame Bradley" threads are the most annoying theme of this blog this year.

I take it back: the "Get Boogie Cousins" threads are worse. Someone posts one every darn day. SAC has zero reason to trade him. It's not happening. Stop.

[loco_91]

Ainge would be silly not to try, you never know. How about KO, Bass, our 2015, Clippers pick, and a Bkn's 2016 or 2018, all unprotected?

[D.o.s.]

I stated a few days ago that the never ending "Blame Bradley" threads are the most annoying theme of this blog this year.

I take it back: the "Get Boogie Cousins" threads are worse. Someone posts one every darn day. SAC has zero reason to trade him. It's not happening. Stop.

Compelling stuff, real conversation starter material.

[spikelovetheCelts]

I stated a few days ago that the never ending "Blame Bradley" threads are the most annoying theme of this blog this year.

I take it back: the "Get Boogie Cousins" threads are worse. Someone posts one every darn day. SAC has zero reason to trade him. It's not happening. Stop.

Compelling stuff, real conversation starter material.

Man I come here everyday to see if we will be getting the boogie woogie MOJO going today or not. I guess I will have to look for it somewhere else. 

[KeepRondo]

I stated a few days ago that the never ending "Blame Bradley" threads are the most annoying theme of this blog this year.

I take it back: the "Get Boogie Cousins" threads are worse. Someone posts one every darn day. SAC has zero reason to trade him. It's not happening. Stop.

not cool.

[KG_ended_Bias]

Would anybody besides me like to trade Smart & Olynyk & a 1st, and then on flip side just go back hard after Rondo this summer to play with Cousin's? I think its something Ainge may be thinking about & we would be the most attractive team for Rondo do to the history here & assets we have going forward.

[SHAQATTACK]

Karl was a failure with Lakers ...Nuggets tossed him

Nothing's going to change ....

[manl_lui]

Would anybody besides me like to trade Smart & Olynyk & a 1st, and then on flip side just go back hard after Rondo this summer to play with Cousin's? I think its something Ainge may be thinking about & we would be the mist attractive team for Rondo do to the history here & assets we have going forward.

but Rondo is a free agent this summer no? If we are able to snatch Cousins, with whatever assets we have, can't we try to convince Rondo to come back

[KG_ended_Bias]

Would anybody besides me like to trade Smart & Olynyk & a 1st, and then on flip side just go back hard after Rondo this summer to play with Cousin's? I think its something Ainge may be thinking about & we would be the mist attractive team for Rondo do to the history here & assets we have going forward.

but Rondo is a free agent this summer no? If we are able to snatch Cousins, with whatever assets we have, can't we try to convince Rondo to come back

Yes  that's exactly what I'm trying to say. I say go after Boogie at all costs & then try t to sway Rondo back if need be.

[manl_lui]

Would anybody besides me like to trade Smart & Olynyk & a 1st, and then on flip side just go back hard after Rondo this summer to play with Cousin's? I think its something Ainge may be thinking about & we would be the mist attractive team for Rondo do to the history here & assets we have going forward.

but Rondo is a free agent this summer no? If we are able to snatch Cousins, with whatever assets we have, can't we try to convince Rondo to come back

Yes  that's exactly what I'm trying to say. I say go after Boogie at all costs & then try t to sway Rondo back if need be.

o whoops, sorry, I read that wrong. My apologies...but in my honest opinion, as much as I love Rondo, I want to try to get Cousins with all our assets but if possible, not include Smart