Kyle Korver named to the All-Star game to replace Dwyane Wade ... really???

[Eja117]

All I know is if you want to look at certain statistically anomalous guys ....if I have to win a playoff game give me Rondo.

How's Korver's defense?

[Endless Paradise]

...of course, maybe I'm just excited to finally break out an Adam Silver conspiracy theory.  We miss ya, David.

You should do some research into how the apparent decrease in the value of home court advantage this season may be related to ref performance, which may be related to Silver replacing Stern.  Adam Silver may be part of a massive conspiracy involving the Bilderburg Group, the Stone Cutters, Opus Dei, the Skull and Bones fraternity, and the Elders of Zion in an attempt to create fairer games.

This (the first half) is really interesting - got a decent starting point?  I've heard of the drop in HCA, but Google isn't much help on the reffing connection.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12241619/home-court-advantage-decline

[moiso]

All I know is if you want to look at certain statistically anomalous guys ....if I have to win a playoff game give me Rondo.

How's Korver's defense?

Certainly not athletic but he always gives effort, he is smart and always in the right spot, and he has good size.  He is probably average overall.  Defense isn't a weakness like some people think.

[PhoSita]

All I know is if you want to look at certain statistically anomalous guys ....if I have to win a playoff game give me Rondo.

How's Korver's defense?

Underrated, as it turns out.  I remember reading before the start of this season that by some measures Korver is actually a decent perimeter defender, though certainly not elite by any stretch.

I know who I'd rather have on the floor in the fourth quarter.

[D.o.s.]

He's a better defender than Evan Turner

[JohnBoy65]

This point was brought up earlier, but the guy is on pace to put up the BEST shooting numbers in the HISTORY of the NBA. How isn't that worth of an All-Star selection?

[Donoghus]

I have no qualms with Korver being named to the all star team.  The guy has been shooting lights out this season (have you seen those shooting percentages?) and is a very important contributor to the team with the best record in the East.    He's deserving. 

[LooseCannon]

...of course, maybe I'm just excited to finally break out an Adam Silver conspiracy theory.  We miss ya, David.

You should do some research into how the apparent decrease in the value of home court advantage this season may be related to ref performance, which may be related to Silver replacing Stern.  Adam Silver may be part of a massive conspiracy involving the Bilderburg Group, the Stone Cutters, Opus Dei, the Skull and Bones fraternity, and the Elders of Zion in an attempt to create fairer games.

This (the first half) is really interesting - got a decent starting point?  I've heard of the drop in HCA, but Google isn't much help on the reffing connection.

Well, start looking at the relationship between reffing and home court advantage.  For example, the difference in free throws for home teams vs visiting teams.  See if that difference still exists this season, or if it has declined.

[crimson_stallion]

I think some people here are misinterpreting my original point that I was trying to make.

I don't by any means believe that you need to be a big time scorer to be worthy of an All-Star selection - not at all.  Dennis Rodman and Ben Wallace were about as far from 'scorers'
as you can get, but they both made the team and I believe they deserved it.

So, I hear you ask - if they deserved it, then why doesn't Korver?

Because Dennis Rodman and Ben Wallace were both elite at more than one thing - defence and rebounding.  I would argue that Dennis Rodman was the best defender in the league in his prime, and just about the best rebounder too.  I can say the same for Ben Wallace. They weren't great offensive players, but they dominated in every other facet of the game.

Same can be said for Jason Kidd and Rajon Rondo.  Neither of those guys was a big time scorer, but I believe they deserved their All-Star spots.  Why?  Because scoring was the only thing they didn't do.  Both of those guys in their primes were triple double machines who could be dominant on both ends of the floor.  Both guys were the best rebounders and passers in the league at their position, and among the best defenders too.

This outlines the big difference between those guys, and Kyle Korver.  If you read all of the comments here I think it only serves to emphasise my original point - the only thing Korver is really great at is shooting. If you look at him as a defender, rebounder, passer and overall scorer - he is average at best in all of those categories. 

If you're only good at one thing then that makes you, by definition, a role player.  Korver has only one role and that is to stretch the offense with his shooting.  He might be extremely good, elite, dominant even at that role...but the fact still remains that he's a "one-trick pony".

Personally, I don't believe that doing one thing well makes you a star.  Look at guys like Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Larry Bird.  Those guys were elite shooters, but that's not all they could do.  Ray Allen averaged closed to 4-5 assists and 4-5 rebounds his entire career and in his younger days was an elite athlete, very capable of creating offense off the dribble.  Larry Bird did absolutely everything and was a triple double machine.  Reggie Miller was in a similar deal to Ray except he was probably a better defender, but not as good at creating his own shot.  Even current elite shooters like Durant and Curry - those guys are amazing shooters, but that's not ALL they do. 

To me, voting Korver an all-star is insulting.

It's insulting to all of those players from the past who were elite at one part of the game, but who never even got mentioned for an All-Star game.  Guys like Shane Battier (defense), Steve Kerr (shooting), Bruce Bowen (defence). 

How many championships did the Spurs win, and how much of a difference maker was Bruce Bowen in helping them win those titles? How many All-Star games did he make?

That's the part I don't agree with.  You make this guy an All-Star when all he can do is shoot, and suddenly you're spitting on every other player in the past who excelled at one area of their game...yet never got recognised for it.

The next question I need to ask.  IF Kyle Korver was putting up the same exact stats but he was playing on the Timberwolves, do you think he'd still have gotten that All-Star vote?  I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the answer to that question is "no".

That pretty much proves it.  Korver isn't on this team based on his own individual merits, he's on the team because the league believed the Hawks should have another player, and he made the most sense.  End of story.

If the league wants to make that type of change then fine, but then you need to change your All-Star voting system.  You can't vote for 80% of your roster based on their start talents, then completely change the way you vote with the last few guys - if you did then guys like Tim Duncan (he has a -2 on/of rating this year, so the Spurs are better when he's NOT on the court) and Kevin Durant (his team is out of the playoffs right now) wouldn't be on the team.

[crimson_stallion]

He's a better defender than Evan Turner

That wouldn't be especially hard.

I think Danny Ainge RIGHT NOW probably plays defence better than Turner lol he is certainly the worst player on this team in terms of his ability to both turn the ball over at a ridiculous rate AND then let the opponent score at a similarly high rate lol

[crimson_stallion]

This point was brought up earlier, but the guy is on pace to put up the BEST shooting numbers in the HISTORY of the NBA. How isn't that worth of an All-Star selection?

Manute Bol averaged 5 blocks per game in his ROOKIE YEAR, and did so in only 26 minutes per game.  His career average of 3.34 blocks per game is the second highest in league history, while his career 6.4 blocks per 36 minutes is beyond ridiculous.

Did Manute Bol ever make an All-Star team as a result of him being quite possibly the best shot blocker who ever played? Hmm...no.

Would I vote Bol as an All-Star?  No. Why?  Same reason, he was only good at one thing.  No matter how good he was as a shot blocker, nothing changes the fact that blocking shots is really the only thing he was good at - he was just one hell of a role player.

Oh and one more thing.  In 1994-95 Steve Kerr shot 50.6% from the field, 51.5% from three and 92.9% from the foul line.  You could say that his Chicago team was...fairly successful.  I'll let you do your research and let me know if he ever made an All-Star team.

Korver is one and the same...just that his dominance is in a different area. 

I totally understand what you're saying and there is no question that Korver's achievements this season as a shooter have been phenomenal.  I also understand that his vote was helped by the fact that the Eastern conference is historically weak this year.

But this is not team captain voting, or a community assist award, or a sportsmanship award, or a "ultimate glue guy" award, or a nomination for the three point contest - this is the All-Star game.  The intention of this game is basically to nominate the 12 or so greatest players in the league from each conference.

[krumeto]

I think some people here are misinterpreting my original point that I was trying to make.

I don't by any means believe that you need to be a big time scorer to be worthy of an All-Star selection - not at all.  Dennis Rodman and Ben Wallace were about as far from 'scorers'
as you can get, but they both made the team and I believe they deserved it.

So, I hear you ask - if they deserved it, then why doesn't Korver?

Because Dennis Rodman and Ben Wallace were both elite at more than one thing - defence and rebounding.  I would argue that Dennis Rodman was the best defender in the league in his prime, and just about the best rebounder too.  I can say the same for Ben Wallace. They weren't great offensive players, but they dominated in every other facet of the game.

Same can be said for Jason Kidd and Rajon Rondo.  Neither of those guys was a big time scorer, but I believe they deserved their All-Star spots.  Why?  Because scoring was the only thing they didn't do.  Both of those guys in their primes were triple double machines who could be dominant on both ends of the floor.  Both guys were the best rebounders and passers in the league at their position, and among the best defenders too.

This outlines the big difference between those guys, and Kyle Korver.  If you read all of the comments here I think it only serves to emphasise my original point - the only thing Korver is really great at is shooting. If you look at him as a defender, rebounder, passer and overall scorer - he is average at best in all of those categories. 

If you're only good at one thing then that makes you, by definition, a role player.  Korver has only one role and that is to stretch the offense with his shooting.  He might be extremely good, elite, dominant even at that role...but the fact still remains that he's a "one-trick pony".

Personally, I don't believe that doing one thing well makes you a star.  Look at guys like Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Larry Bird.  Those guys were elite shooters, but that's not all they could do.  Ray Allen averaged closed to 4-5 assists and 4-5 rebounds his entire career and in his younger days was an elite athlete, very capable of creating offense off the dribble.  Larry Bird did absolutely everything and was a triple double machine.  Reggie Miller was in a similar deal to Ray except he was probably a better defender, but not as good at creating his own shot.  Even current elite shooters like Durant and Curry - those guys are amazing shooters, but that's not ALL they do. 

To me, voting Korver an all-star is insulting.

It's insulting to all of those players from the past who were elite at one part of the game, but who never even got mentioned for an All-Star game.  Guys like Shane Battier (defense), Steve Kerr (shooting), Bruce Bowen (defence). 

How many championships did the Spurs win, and how much of a difference maker was Bruce Bowen in helping them win those titles? How many All-Star games did he make?

That's the part I don't agree with.  You make this guy an All-Star when all he can do is shoot, and suddenly you're spitting on every other player in the past who excelled at one area of their game...yet never got recognised for it.

The next question I need to ask.  IF Kyle Korver was putting up the same exact stats but he was playing on the Timberwolves, do you think he'd still have gotten that All-Star vote?  I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the answer to that question is "no".

That pretty much proves it.  Korver isn't on this team based on his own individual merits, he's on the team because the league believed the Hawks should have another player, and he made the most sense.  End of story.

If the league wants to make that type of change then fine, but then you need to change your All-Star voting system.  You can't vote for 80% of your roster based on their start talents, then completely change the way you vote with the last few guys - if you did then guys like Tim Duncan (he has a -2 on/of rating this year, so the Spurs are better when he's NOT on the court) and Kevin Durant (his team is out of the playoffs right now) wouldn't be on the team.

I do not think anybody compares Korver to Ray, Reggie etc. We are talking AS 2015.

Is Wade really elite at something at all in 2014/2015? One can argue for and against. Same for Knight and other guards. Fact is, we have no Ray, Reggie, Klay Thompson, etc.. in the East.

My point is Korver with the best shooting season in the history of the game has as much credit (although not that much compared to all-time greats) as any guard in the poor east. That's it.

[crimson_stallion]

I do not think anybody compares Korver to Ray, Reggie etc. We are talking AS 2015.

Is Wade really elite at something at all in 2014/2015? One can argue for and against. Same for Knight and other guards. Fact is, we have no Ray, Reggie, Klay Thompson, etc.. in the East.

My point is Korver with the best shooting season in the history of the game has as much credit (although not that much compared to all-time greats) as any guard in the poor east. That's it.

Absolutely...Wade is an elite scorer (21.5 PPG @ 49% FG) while also being an above average passer and rebounder for his position.  He excels at more than just one thing - that's why I consider him a star.

[krumeto]

I do not think anybody compares Korver to Ray, Reggie etc. We are talking AS 2015.

Is Wade really elite at something at all in 2014/2015? One can argue for and against. Same for Knight and other guards. Fact is, we have no Ray, Reggie, Klay Thompson, etc.. in the East.

My point is Korver with the best shooting season in the history of the game has as much credit (although not that much compared to all-time greats) as any guard in the poor east. That's it.

Absolutely...Wade is an elite scorer (21.5 PPG @ 49% FG) while also being an above average passer and rebounder for his position.  He excels at more than just one thing - that's why I consider him a star.

Again, nothing against Wade and I am not hijacking the thread to talk about him. The debate is clear - one side points to PPG, rebounds, etc... The other points to TOV, high usage, missed games, etc... D Wade is still a good player. Probably, better than Korver. That is probably why he was the starter.

My point is - a relatively easy case could be made against ANY guard replacement (or even against DWade). We do not have a clear cut 100% no-debate alternative to Korver.

[crimson_stallion]

I do not think anybody compares Korver to Ray, Reggie etc. We are talking AS 2015.

Is Wade really elite at something at all in 2014/2015? One can argue for and against. Same for Knight and other guards. Fact is, we have no Ray, Reggie, Klay Thompson, etc.. in the East.

My point is Korver with the best shooting season in the history of the game has as much credit (although not that much compared to all-time greats) as any guard in the poor east. That's it.

Absolutely...Wade is an elite scorer (21.5 PPG @ 49% FG) while also being an above average passer and rebounder for his position.  He excels at more than just one thing - that's why I consider him a star.

Again, nothing against Wade and I am not hijacking the thread to talk about him. The debate is clear - one side points to PPG, rebounds, etc... The other points to TOV, high usage, missed games, etc... D Wade is still a good player. Probably, better than Korver. That is probably why he was the starter.

My point is - a relatively easy case could be made against ANY guard replacement (or even against DWade). We do not have a clear cut 100% no-debate alternative to Korver.

Why does it have to be a guard?

These are injury replacement votes.  Demarcus Cousins was chosen to replace Kobe Bryant.  There is no rule that states that an injury replacement for the All-Star games needs to be the same position as the guy he's replacing. 

Lets just keep this simple. 

PER (Player Efficiency Rating) is a stat that is designed to estimate a player's overall contribution across all statistical areas.  Nikola Vucevic currently ranks 15th in the NBA in PER.  I'm going to be diplomatic here and say that Kyle Korver does not. 

Also you still haven't answered one of my key questions - if Korver was putting up the same numbers for the Magic, and Vucevic was putting up his same numbers for Atlanta, do you believe Korver would have made the team over Vucevic?

Because if he is truly on the team because of his own capabilities (rather than largely due to his team's success) the answer to that question should be yes. 

I think we both know that's not the real answer.

Anywhoo I think we'll all have to agree to disagree on this because I think the perspective is very different lol