What do Pro Tankers want?

[thirstyboots18]

I hope all the young guys turn out to be enormously talented, are willing to wait a few years to get good playoff results, and are willing (because of team loyalty) to disregard the lure of max contracts by other teams.

I hope that Danny, showing great wisdom,  gets great trade value for his possible misses while managing to hang on to his jackpot hits.

[Irish Stew]

I was thinking about how there are a number of posters that are fearing the celtics entering NBA purgatory and saying we are really screwing up by winning these games. At this point, I really wonder what the pro-tanking thinks the celtics can do?

We are actually playing better than when we had Jeff Green and Rondo starting right now.
If you look at the box score from last night we had two players play that were over 26 (Bass and Thornton)

Bass played 23 minutes, Thornton 20. Prince and Wallace did not play. If the celtics win games with sullinger, bradley, smart, young and zeller playing over 20-30 minutes, what more can they do to tank?

What I want is to have Bass, Prince, and Thornton moved. This should have happened already. Holding out for a possible late 1st round pick while lowering the value of our own pick has never made sense to me. Statistical studies have shown that the higher the pick, the more likely you are to draft an All-Star player. There are always exceptions to the rule but the logic of picking later in the draft escapes me unless you're a contender. The young players need to play as much as possible. Bass, Thornton, and Prince will not be part of our future. Our young players may be able to win the occasional game but other wins have come and will come from our veterans bailing out the kids. Those are the kind of wins that I would like to avoid.

[celticsclay]

I was thinking about how there are a number of posters that are fearing the celtics entering NBA purgatory and saying we are really screwing up by winning these games. At this point, I really wonder what the pro-tanking thinks the celtics can do?

We are actually playing better than when we had Jeff Green and Rondo starting right now.
If you look at the box score from last night we had two players play that were over 26 (Bass and Thornton)

Bass played 23 minutes, Thornton 20. Prince and Wallace did not play. If the celtics win games with sullinger, bradley, smart, young and zeller playing over 20-30 minutes, what more can they do to tank?

What I want is to have Bass, Prince, and Thornton moved. This should have happened already. Holding out for a possible late 1st round pick while lowering the value of our own pick has never made sense to me. Statistical studies have shown that the higher the pick, the more likely you are to draft an All-Star player. There are always exceptions to the rule but the logic of picking later in the draft escapes me unless you're a contender. The young players need to play as much as possible. Bass, Thornton, and Prince will not be part of our future. Our young players may be able to win the occasional game but other wins have come and will come from our veterans bailing out the kids. Those are the kind of wins that I would like to avoid.

I guess this is pretty futile, or you didn't read the rest of the thread. You realize that Prince has not played in the last 3 games? You realize with Powell and subsequently Wright traded, and KO injured, we have three healthy bigs (Bass, Zeller and Sullinger). Bass has only been playing 20 minutes a game. I guess there really isn't a reasonable answer asides from just cutting thornton

[LooseCannon]

What I want is to have Bass, Prince, and Thornton moved. This should have happened already. Holding out for a possible late 1st round pick while lowering the value of our own pick has never made sense to me.

It's more likely that Ainge is holding out for not having to take on salary commitments for next season.  He might prefer to keep them and let them expire instead of picking up a couple of seconds and a bad player who still has another year on his contract.  He probably should prefer to keep them.

[nickagneta]

What I want is to have Bass, Prince, and Thornton moved. This should have happened already. Holding out for a possible late 1st round pick while lowering the value of our own pick has never made sense to me.

It's more likely that Ainge is holding out for not having to take on salary commitments for next season.  He might prefer to keep them and let them expire instead of picking up a couple of seconds and a bad player who still has another year on his contract.  He probably should prefer to keep them.

I agree. Posters here just can't see the entire picture sometimes and Ainge has to weigh player development through game time(which I am pretty sure neither he nor Stevens believes in) with trying to maximize value in trades with trying to get as much salary cap space as possible while not going over the tax threshold......etc. etc.

The vets aren't winning us any games all by themselves and every coach needs vets so as to keep structure in the locker room and use the vets as solid examples of how to be a pro to the young guys.

I have no problem with keeping and playing 3 middle of the road vets. Its not costing us losses and its keeping the financial end in a healthy situation and, as I said, I think that Ainge and Stevens, like most NBA professionals, feel player development comes from way way more than just playing time. Also, they probably think playing time should be earned and not given. That's a smart policy to have on any team from youth ball to the NBA.

[celticsclay]

What I want is to have Bass, Prince, and Thornton moved. This should have happened already. Holding out for a possible late 1st round pick while lowering the value of our own pick has never made sense to me.

It's more likely that Ainge is holding out for not having to take on salary commitments for next season.  He might prefer to keep them and let them expire instead of picking up a couple of seconds and a bad player who still has another year on his contract.  He probably should prefer to keep them.

I agree. Posters here just can't see the entire picture sometimes and Ainge has to way player development through game time(which I am pretty sure neither he nor Stevens believes in) with trying to maximize value in trades with trying to get as much salary cap space as possible while not going over the tax threshold......etc. Etc.

The vets are winning us any games all by themselves and every coach needs vets so as to keep structure in the locker room and use the vets as solid examples of how to be a pro to the young guys.

I have no problem with keeping and playing 3 middle of the road vets. Its not costing us losses and its keeping the financial end in a healthy situation and as I said, I think that Ainge and Stevens, like most NBA professionals feel player development comes from way way more than just playing time. Also, they probably think playing time should be earned and not given. That's a smart policy to have on any team from youth ball to the NBA.

+1

[Celtics4ever]

I hope all the young guys turn out to be enormously talented,

  We already know the limitations of some of them already.

[libermaniac]

Are there still any pro tankers left?  I was squarely in the pro-tanking camp, but this team is clearly going to win another 8-10 games, at least, and that means, at best, they'll be in the 7th or 8th slot.  That doesn't skew the odds enough to root for losses anymore, IMO.  So, go get 'em C's ... win some games!

I suppose, one might root for them to miss the playoffs so they have a sliver of hope at some miracle, but as many have pointed out, the taste of the playoffs for the youngsters might outweigh that tiny chance of striking lottery gold.

[Irish Stew]

I was thinking about how there are a number of posters that are fearing the celtics entering NBA purgatory and saying we are really screwing up by winning these games. At this point, I really wonder what the pro-tanking thinks the celtics can do?

We are actually playing better than when we had Jeff Green and Rondo starting right now.
If you look at the box score from last night we had two players play that were over 26 (Bass and Thornton)

Bass played 23 minutes, Thornton 20. Prince and Wallace did not play. If the celtics win games with sullinger, bradley, smart, young and zeller playing over 20-30 minutes, what more can they do to tank?

What I want is to have Bass, Prince, and Thornton moved. This should have happened already. Holding out for a possible late 1st round pick while lowering the value of our own pick has never made sense to me. Statistical studies have shown that the higher the pick, the more likely you are to draft an All-Star player. There are always exceptions to the rule but the logic of picking later in the draft escapes me unless you're a contender. The young players need to play as much as possible. Bass, Thornton, and Prince will not be part of our future. Our young players may be able to win the occasional game but other wins have come and will come from our veterans bailing out the kids. Those are the kind of wins that I would like to avoid.

I guess this is pretty futile, or you didn't read the rest of the thread. You realize that Prince has not played in the last 3 games? You realize with Powell and subsequently Wright traded, and KO injured, we have three healthy bigs (Bass, Zeller and Sullinger). Bass has only been playing 20 minutes a game. I guess there really isn't a reasonable answer asides from just cutting thornton

My point was that you would move three productive veterans like Prince, Thornton, and Bass for less productive expiring contracts plus future 2nd round picks, in three separate trades of course. For example, Prince for Fields and a future 2nd round pick (even a conditional 2nd round pick). The less productive players would be getting the Bass/Thornton/Prince minutes when needed because of injuries and play even less when our young players are healthy. Perhaps, Thornton could have been bought out because of his large salary and replaced with a minimum wage guy if there was no realistic expectation of a trade. Our schedule is full of potential, and even likely, wins. To endure two terrible seasons and not extract maximum value for our own picks is the worst sin of all.

[celticsclay]

I was thinking about how there are a number of posters that are fearing the celtics entering NBA purgatory and saying we are really screwing up by winning these games. At this point, I really wonder what the pro-tanking thinks the celtics can do?

We are actually playing better than when we had Jeff Green and Rondo starting right now.
If you look at the box score from last night we had two players play that were over 26 (Bass and Thornton)

Bass played 23 minutes, Thornton 20. Prince and Wallace did not play. If the celtics win games with sullinger, bradley, smart, young and zeller playing over 20-30 minutes, what more can they do to tank?

What I want is to have Bass, Prince, and Thornton moved. This should have happened already. Holding out for a possible late 1st round pick while lowering the value of our own pick has never made sense to me. Statistical studies have shown that the higher the pick, the more likely you are to draft an All-Star player. There are always exceptions to the rule but the logic of picking later in the draft escapes me unless you're a contender. The young players need to play as much as possible. Bass, Thornton, and Prince will not be part of our future. Our young players may be able to win the occasional game but other wins have come and will come from our veterans bailing out the kids. Those are the kind of wins that I would like to avoid.

I guess this is pretty futile, or you didn't read the rest of the thread. You realize that Prince has not played in the last 3 games? You realize with Powell and subsequently Wright traded, and KO injured, we have three healthy bigs (Bass, Zeller and Sullinger). Bass has only been playing 20 minutes a game. I guess there really isn't a reasonable answer asides from just cutting thornton

My point was that you would move three productive veterans like Prince, Thornton, and Bass for less productive expiring contracts plus future 2nd round picks, in three separate trades of course. For example, Prince for Fields and a future 2nd round pick (even a conditional 2nd round pick). The less productive players would be getting the Bass/Thornton/Prince minutes when needed because of injuries and play even less when our young players are healthy. Perhaps, Thornton could have been bought out because of his large salary and replaced with a minimum wage guy if there was no realistic expectation of a trade. Our schedule is full of potential, and even likely, wins. To endure two terrible seasons and not extract maximum value for our own picks is the worst sin of all.

Again I am not sure if you are just super high on thornton or bass (or when he plays, prince)
Thornton is a chucker. He is as likely to shoot us out of a game as he is into one. If he gets traded we most likely just see a few more minutes for turner, maybe a smidge more for dawkins or young. Those guys are also shooters that can get hot. Cutting thornton or not, its not really going to move the needle on us winning or losing a bunch of games.

Again with Bass, he gets bought out/cut we play sully a few more minutes and maybe give a few spot minutes to a d-league bruiser. Does that move the needle?

If we cut all those guys today we may win like two less games for the rest of the year. Maybe 7 instead of 9. It may not impact our draft position even one slot. Is that small amount worth giving up having sullinger and ko a professional big man to go up against in practice? Is that worth having prince giving some defensive advice to young, bradley and sully? To me it seems like it definitely isn't, but i guess the debate is kind of petering out.

[Rosco917]

Are there still any pro tankers left?  I was squarely in the pro-tanking camp, but this team is clearly going to win another 8-10 games, at least, and that means, at best, they'll be in the 7th or 8th slot.  That doesn't skew the odds enough to root for losses anymore, IMO.  So, go get 'em C's ... win some games!

I suppose, one might root for them to miss the playoffs so they have a sliver of hope at some miracle, but as many have pointed out, the taste of the playoffs for the youngsters might outweigh that tiny chance of striking lottery gold.

If Tanking is loosing on purpose for the sake of draft placement, then I'm out. If tanking means developing young talent, while happening to loose then I'm OK.

If this team plays the young developing kids, and they still get into the playoffs..I'll eat my hat!

[jonaslopes]

Poor, poor, POOR tankers. We're winning. But don't give up! You'll always have Philly.

[Smokeeye123]

Poor, poor, POOR tankers. We're winning. But don't give up! You'll always have Philly.

We value championships not wins over the 76ers. If you want the celtics to win another championship as soon as possible you should be pro tanking.

[jonaslopes]

Poor, poor, POOR tankers. We're winning. But don't give up! You'll always have Philly.

We value championships not wins over the 76ers. If you want the celtics to win another championship as soon as possible you should be pro tanking.

For the last time: you'll always have Philly. Good luck, goodbye.

[indeedproceed]

Poor, poor, POOR tankers. We're winning. But don't give up! You'll always have Philly.

We value championships not wins over the 76ers. If you want the celtics to win another championship as soon as possible you should be pro tanking.

For the last time: you'll always have Philly. Good luck, goodbye.

Lol, and you'll always have the 2010 Bucks. Well, they were way better than we are now. But pick a really bad team from a worse conference that squeaks into the playoffs and then gets completely annihilated. Cuz if the C's keep winning, that's what everyone will have.