Author Topic: Rajon Rondo shows Boston  (Read 33782 times)

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Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #135 on: January 03, 2015, 01:04:40 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I do think Rondo "padded stats" to a degree.  Those wide open shots he would pass up to thread a pass to someone were not intended to make the other player better or help the team win.  They were because missing shots was in his head and he preferred from a personal perspective to get an assist added to his stats over a missed shot.


  This is basically all in your head though. You don't have any real idea whether it's true or not, and you have to ignore the much more likely explanation (Rondo knows enough about basketball to realize that a made basket (even one that comes from a pass) helps the team more than a missed shot does). It's fairly interesting the number of contrived reasons you see here that are meant to put Rondo in a bad light for doing what anyone would tell you is the correct basketball play. The number of people that buy into that nonsense because they read it on the internet is probably more interesting though.

BballTim is correct, I don't "know" what Rondo is thinking but it is my opinion and what is in my head is there based on what I see on the court.  Clearly BballTim does not give much credence to my observations but I can get over that.

Sometimes you make a pass that is not necessary to reward a big man for running.  Sometimes it could make sense to get a player going out of a slump by giving him an easy basket even though you had a layup yourself.  So there are times when passing for the sake of passing can be strategic.

In Rondo's case, there were times (and a lot this season) where it seemed to me that he was passing just to get an assist or to avoid shooting himself.  Passing up a really good shot, wide open usually, for what was not necessarily a better shot.  At times it seemed he did this because he was afraid to shoot, other times it seemed like he was doing it to "pad" his assists.  (Along the way, Rondo made plenty of really good passes too of course).

He does not seem to be doing the unnecessary passing so far in Dallas and certainly didn't do it last night (although I did not see the whole game).  His new team's results are better for it as would have the Celtic's results have.

  Aside from FT shooting, your two main criticisms of Rondo seem to be that he's not a great shooter and that he passes up too many shots in order to get assists. These two complaints are clearly at odds with each other.

  The team scored at a higher rate off of passes from Rondo than the off of shots from Rondo. That's fairly undeniable. If we have a choice between Rondo taking a fairly open jump shot or someone else taking a fairly open shot we're probably better off with the other shooter. That's the basis for your criticisms of Rondo's shooting, and other teams not respecting Rondo's jumper.

  Yet at the same time you want to criticize Rondo for passing up those shots and creating better scoring chances with his passing. That doesn't make a lot of basketball sense. You seem to reconcile this by assigning ulterior motives to Rondo's actions. Like it's somehow a coincidence that Rondo's "selfish stat padding" results in a better scoring opportunity. While you're right that the pass doesn't always lead to a better shot, you also have to consider the possibility that he's miss the open shot that he passed up. Based on everything you've ever said about his shooting, you probably think that miss is a pretty likely outcome.

Yes, my main criticisms of Rondo are that he is a poor shooter and that at times, he over-passes or holds on to the ball too long waiting for the perfect pass, sacrificing ball movement.

Some players shoot too much and don't pass enough.  This season especially, Rondo was passing up too many wide open shots when the team needed him to look for his shot more.  Apparently, he felt that he was not being asked to play defense (which is ludicrous) so maybe in his mind some how he didn't think he as being asked to score either.

In any event, now that he is on another team and being coached by another coach, suddenly he is rolling out a much more balanced game.  More points, fewer assists, fewer rebounds.  This is the Rondo that I wanted in Boston but for some reason, Rondo chose not play that way.  He is the same talented player, shooting is still his biggest weakness, he is still missing free throws, but he is looking for his shot more and his team is benefiting from this. 

Isn't this proving that he should have been doing this all along in spite of your stat mining that says other people taking contested shots is better than Rondo taking open shots?

Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #136 on: January 03, 2015, 01:07:12 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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He showed Boston and the NBA as a whole that yes, Rondo is mercurial.  I don't think he does it on purpose, at least not entirely.  For example, he certainly doesn't miss free throws on purpose just because he is dogging it.  I doubt he misses 3s on purpose either.  Not shooting when he has a shot is on purpose and believing that he was not expected to play defense may be somewhere in between.

I do think Rondo "padded stats" to a degree. Those wide open shots he would pass up to thread a pass to someone were not intended to make the other player better or help the team win.  They were because missing shots was in his head and he preferred from a personal perspective to get an assist added to his stats over a missed shot.

Rondo had a great game.  That is the Rondo we all dreamed of for the Celtics (and I think Danny dreamed of when he said this was going to be Rondo's best season ever).  Rondo making those shots is lethal NBA weapon (as Tommy has said).  He just never made them for the Celtics.  Maybe he really had a problem with Stevens, maybe is was coasting to get to his next contract, maybe what you surround Rondo with makes a huge difference, maybe he is just mercurial, I don't' know but he was not doing it here, that is for sure.

Ironically, it appears that Danny may be right, Rondo may have his best season ever.  Unfortunately, it is not going to happen in a Celtics uniform.  He had his chance to do it here but didn't.  Now he is in Dallas and doing it (at least sometimes).  Let the debate rage on.

Wow, you have more insight into the inner thoughts of Rajon Rondo than anyone else. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #137 on: January 03, 2015, 01:11:01 PM »

Offline Jonny CC

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you don't need a bunch of HoF for Rondo to make him good

he needs a reason to compete - Dallas does that

why should he risk getting injured in Boston while taking the ball to the rim several times each night - I still remember the many times he got hammered in the past - so why taking that risk on a team without the mindset to win each and every night and without the talent to do so

I don't blame him - all the guys who wanted to tank and dump Rondo are now pointing at him saying he was coasting - make up your minds


He needs a reason to compete? The reason is that it's his JOB and that's what he is paid to do.  If anyone else in the working world only gave a decent effort when they felt like it, they would be fired.  As a PROFESSIONAL, he is expected to give his best EVERY NIGHT. 

Why should he risk being injured taking the ball to the rim?  Same answer....it's his JOB. 

Stop making excuses for Rondo and his lack of heart.  Tonight's game was a perfect example of Rondo's (lack of) dedication to his profession, his team, and the fans.  He only plays hard when HE thinks it's worthy of his extra effort...and that is a kick in the balls to every fan who ever paid a penny to watch him play.

1st - lighten up.  Rondo having a 6th gear to his game shouldn't be a personal affront to you and all these "fans" that you claim are so freaking ball sore.  I am so sick of all the high horse moaning about this.  Rondo has been doing this his whole career.  So all of the sudden now it is a criminal offense.  It shouldn't be a surprise that sometimes good players have really good games and sometimes really bad games.  And yes, sometimes that impacts motivation and effort.  Literally every pro player goes through it during a long season.  God forbid someone should follow you around at your job and nitpick every word that ever came out of your mouth that wasn't 100% positive and completely unselfish and every time you took a 5 min too long coffee break.  I doubt a lot of us would come out looking perfect either.

2nd - a lot of people have a pretty short memory about how much 'heart' Rondo showed over his career with the C's.  Just check out the video tribute if you need a refresher.  It seems like literally thousands of fans at the game tonight didn't feel like they got kicked in the balls by Rondo.  I know I didn't.

1st - I don't need to lighten up just because I disagree with a post and point out that Rondo has been a lazy player.  As you said, he's been doing it his whole career (as if that makes it ok that he's been dogging it because he has always dogged it...which makes no sense).  It happens all the time in a lot of sports where players kick it up a notch for a big game, playoffs, etc.  Nobody can play at 110% every game...it's a very long season and there are a lot of factors (travel, health, family, personal issues, etc, etc.  That's not news. But there is a big difference between having a 6th gear when needed and putting in an honest effort on a consistent basis.  My reaction was due to all the Rondo apologists who used this game as their justification to say that Rondo is a superstar, max contract player.  He's not. 

2nd - The video tribute is irrelevant.  Did you think they were going to show all the times where he didn't play defense or missed open shots and free throws?!? They could put together a video tribute of Acie Earl's greatest moment too but it wouldn't have changed history.  But feel free to sit there in your lightened state of delusion and watch the video tribute over and over with your pants off if it makes you happy. 
Before a game on Christmas against the Pacers, Bird told Chuck Person that he had a present for him. During the game, Bird shot a 3-pointer in front of Person. Immediately after releasing the ball, Bird said to Person, "Merry F!#*ing Christmas!" and then the shot went in.

Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #138 on: January 03, 2015, 01:19:34 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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Rajon Rondo is a good man.

Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #139 on: January 03, 2015, 01:31:49 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I do think Rondo "padded stats" to a degree.  Those wide open shots he would pass up to thread a pass to someone were not intended to make the other player better or help the team win.  They were because missing shots was in his head and he preferred from a personal perspective to get an assist added to his stats over a missed shot.


  This is basically all in your head though. You don't have any real idea whether it's true or not, and you have to ignore the much more likely explanation (Rondo knows enough about basketball to realize that a made basket (even one that comes from a pass) helps the team more than a missed shot does). It's fairly interesting the number of contrived reasons you see here that are meant to put Rondo in a bad light for doing what anyone would tell you is the correct basketball play. The number of people that buy into that nonsense because they read it on the internet is probably more interesting though.

BballTim is correct, I don't "know" what Rondo is thinking but it is my opinion and what is in my head is there based on what I see on the court.  Clearly BballTim does not give much credence to my observations but I can get over that.

Sometimes you make a pass that is not necessary to reward a big man for running.  Sometimes it could make sense to get a player going out of a slump by giving him an easy basket even though you had a layup yourself.  So there are times when passing for the sake of passing can be strategic.

In Rondo's case, there were times (and a lot this season) where it seemed to me that he was passing just to get an assist or to avoid shooting himself.  Passing up a really good shot, wide open usually, for what was not necessarily a better shot.  At times it seemed he did this because he was afraid to shoot, other times it seemed like he was doing it to "pad" his assists.  (Along the way, Rondo made plenty of really good passes too of course).

He does not seem to be doing the unnecessary passing so far in Dallas and certainly didn't do it last night (although I did not see the whole game).  His new team's results are better for it as would have the Celtic's results have.

  Aside from FT shooting, your two main criticisms of Rondo seem to be that he's not a great shooter and that he passes up too many shots in order to get assists. These two complaints are clearly at odds with each other.

  The team scored at a higher rate off of passes from Rondo than the off of shots from Rondo. That's fairly undeniable. If we have a choice between Rondo taking a fairly open jump shot or someone else taking a fairly open shot we're probably better off with the other shooter. That's the basis for your criticisms of Rondo's shooting, and other teams not respecting Rondo's jumper.

  Yet at the same time you want to criticize Rondo for passing up those shots and creating better scoring chances with his passing. That doesn't make a lot of basketball sense. You seem to reconcile this by assigning ulterior motives to Rondo's actions. Like it's somehow a coincidence that Rondo's "selfish stat padding" results in a better scoring opportunity. While you're right that the pass doesn't always lead to a better shot, you also have to consider the possibility that he's miss the open shot that he passed up. Based on everything you've ever said about his shooting, you probably think that miss is a pretty likely outcome.

Yes, my main criticisms of Rondo are that he is a poor shooter and that at times, he over-passes or holds on to the ball too long waiting for the perfect pass, sacrificing ball movement.

Some players shoot too much and don't pass enough.  This season especially, Rondo was passing up too many wide open shots when the team needed him to look for his shot more.  Apparently, he felt that he was not being asked to play defense (which is ludicrous) so maybe in his mind some how he didn't think he as being asked to score either.

In any event, now that he is on another team and being coached by another coach, suddenly he is rolling out a much more balanced game.  More points, fewer assists, fewer rebounds.  This is the Rondo that I wanted in Boston but for some reason, Rondo chose not play that way.  He is the same talented player, shooting is still his biggest weakness, he is still missing free throws, but he is looking for his shot more and his team is benefiting from this. 

Isn't this proving that he should have been doing this all along in spite of your stat mining that says other people taking contested shots is better than Rondo taking open shots?

  I think that a lot of the criticisms of his not shooting more (from the games I saw) were more results oriented than anything else. When Rondo passes people the ball and they miss some shots we need Rondo to score more, when he makes the exact same plays and the players are hitting those shots you don't get the complaints.

  In terms of his play in Dallas, I think he's fitting into the offense the way they want him to at the moment. Whether his team benefits more from his shooting more and passing less than they would with him passing more and shooting less is just a guess on your part, unless you can show that the team would do worse if he was passing more and shooting less. I doubt you can.

  What his play in Dallas does seem to be showing, however, is that many of the criticisms about him that we've seen for years were just a bunch of nonsense. That he can only play in "his" type of offense. That he can't be at all effective if he doesn't control the ball all the time. That he's absolutely useless when he's playing off the ball. That he can only be effective with a very specific set of players on the court with him. For all the hundreds of times I've heard all of them, they don't seem to be any more accurate than all the posts about how his gaudy assist totals would plummet when he wasn't sharing the court with the big three.

Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #140 on: January 03, 2015, 01:54:25 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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The team was in the eighth spot in the East when Rondo got traded.  Zero seems like a tad bit of a low estimate.
In fact, the way the East is right now, one can argue that an engaged Rondo may have been the difference between being in the playoffs and the lottery.
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Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #141 on: January 03, 2015, 01:57:01 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Rondo is trying hard in Dallas and playing for his next gig or contract ...simple as that.......he wanted to leave Boston and he goofed off.   If he d wanted to stay he d took charge of the team , acted like a leader and played every game like he meant to win.

You can even see the concentration on his face with Mavs ......he is intense 100% involved.  He has only looked like that fleeting moment the past year .

I thought last year , he was so bad , he was trying to help the C 's tank and get a better draft pick .  I still do.

This on again ...off again ....lackadaisical play .....was a signal he was leaving .


Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #142 on: January 03, 2015, 02:21:49 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Rondo is trying hard in Dallas and playing for his next gig or contract ...simple as that.......he wanted to leave Boston and he goofed off.   If he d wanted to stay he d took charge of the team , acted like a leader and played every game like he meant to win.

You can even see the concentration on his face with Mavs ......he is intense 100% involved.  He has only looked like that fleeting moment the past year .

I thought last year , he was so bad , he was trying to help the C 's tank and get a better draft pick .  I still do.

This on again ...off again ....lackadaisical play .....was a signal he was leaving .

At the beginning of the season, what sort of record did you think the Celtics would end up with this year?

When Rondo got traded, the team was 9 and 14, on pace for a 32 win season, and at the time good for eighth place in the East.  That's certainly not a record to go dancing in the streets over, but it's better than many had the Celtics pegged for. 

Now many of the folks who had this team slated to win less than 25 games this season are blaming our better than they expected record with Rondo on the fact that he was disinterested and sanEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ging it.

A question then;  what would the Celtics record have been if Rondo had been playing like he cared?

10 and 13?  11 and 12?  12 and 11? . . . 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #143 on: January 03, 2015, 02:26:14 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Rondo is trying hard in Dallas and playing for his next gig or contract ...simple as that.......he wanted to leave Boston and he goofed off.   If he d wanted to stay he d took charge of the team , acted like a leader and played every game like he meant to win.

You can even see the concentration on his face with Mavs ......he is intense 100% involved.  He has only looked like that fleeting moment the past year .

I thought last year , he was so bad , he was trying to help the C 's tank and get a better draft pick .  I still do.

This on again ...off again ....lackadaisical play .....was a signal he was leaving .

At the beginning of the season, what sort of record did you think the Celtics would end up with this year?

When Rondo got traded, the team was 9 and 14, on pace for a 32 win season, and at the time good for eighth place in the East.  That's certainly not a record to go dancing in the streets over, but it's better than many had the Celtics pegged for. 

Now many of the folks who had this team slated to win less than 25 games this season are blaming our better than they expected record with Rondo on the fact that he was disinterested and san****ging it.

A question then;  what would the Celtics record have been if Rondo had been playing like he cared?

10 and 13?  11 and 12?  12 and 11? . . .


Haha.  I just spelled out the missing letters in my head, and now I get it.  Hilarious. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #144 on: January 03, 2015, 04:00:22 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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He showed Boston and the NBA as a whole that yes, Rondo is mercurial.  I don't think he does it on purpose, at least not entirely.  For example, he certainly doesn't miss free throws on purpose just because he is dogging it.  I doubt he misses 3s on purpose either.  Not shooting when he has a shot is on purpose and believing that he was not expected to play defense may be somewhere in between.

I do think Rondo "padded stats" to a degree. Those wide open shots he would pass up to thread a pass to someone were not intended to make the other player better or help the team win.  They were because missing shots was in his head and he preferred from a personal perspective to get an assist added to his stats over a missed shot.

Rondo had a great game.  That is the Rondo we all dreamed of for the Celtics (and I think Danny dreamed of when he said this was going to be Rondo's best season ever).  Rondo making those shots is lethal NBA weapon (as Tommy has said).  He just never made them for the Celtics.  Maybe he really had a problem with Stevens, maybe is was coasting to get to his next contract, maybe what you surround Rondo with makes a huge difference, maybe he is just mercurial, I don't' know but he was not doing it here, that is for sure.

Ironically, it appears that Danny may be right, Rondo may have his best season ever.  Unfortunately, it is not going to happen in a Celtics uniform.  He had his chance to do it here but didn't.  Now he is in Dallas and doing it (at least sometimes).  Let the debate rage on.

Wow, you have more insight into the inner thoughts of Rajon Rondo than anyone else.

I probably needed to word this differently to not make it seem like I know what Rondo is thinking.  I don't think anyone would dispute that Rondo was hesitant to shoot so I think we can start with that as a premise.  From there I am saying that I believe Rondo's over passing and at times over "pounding" that resulted in part from his reluctance to shoot, was not making anyone else better and was not helping the team but only serving to pad his assist stats.

Apparently, Carlisle came to the same conclusion because it appears that Rondo's new coach is asking him to shoot more and just move the ball (plus play defense).  For whatever reason, Rondo is actually listening.

Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #145 on: January 03, 2015, 04:30:09 PM »

Online timpiker

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He showed me he really wasn't trying hard since his injury.

Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #146 on: January 03, 2015, 04:31:51 PM »

Offline BballTim

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He showed Boston and the NBA as a whole that yes, Rondo is mercurial.  I don't think he does it on purpose, at least not entirely.  For example, he certainly doesn't miss free throws on purpose just because he is dogging it.  I doubt he misses 3s on purpose either.  Not shooting when he has a shot is on purpose and believing that he was not expected to play defense may be somewhere in between.

I do think Rondo "padded stats" to a degree. Those wide open shots he would pass up to thread a pass to someone were not intended to make the other player better or help the team win.  They were because missing shots was in his head and he preferred from a personal perspective to get an assist added to his stats over a missed shot.

Rondo had a great game.  That is the Rondo we all dreamed of for the Celtics (and I think Danny dreamed of when he said this was going to be Rondo's best season ever).  Rondo making those shots is lethal NBA weapon (as Tommy has said).  He just never made them for the Celtics.  Maybe he really had a problem with Stevens, maybe is was coasting to get to his next contract, maybe what you surround Rondo with makes a huge difference, maybe he is just mercurial, I don't' know but he was not doing it here, that is for sure.

Ironically, it appears that Danny may be right, Rondo may have his best season ever.  Unfortunately, it is not going to happen in a Celtics uniform.  He had his chance to do it here but didn't.  Now he is in Dallas and doing it (at least sometimes).  Let the debate rage on.

Wow, you have more insight into the inner thoughts of Rajon Rondo than anyone else.

I probably needed to word this differently to not make it seem like I know what Rondo is thinking.  I don't think anyone would dispute that Rondo was hesitant to shoot so I think we can start with that as a premise.  From there I am saying that I believe Rondo's over passing and at times over "pounding" that resulted in part from his reluctance to shoot, was not making anyone else better and was not helping the team but only serving to pad his assist stats.

Apparently, Carlisle came to the same conclusion because it appears that Rondo's new coach is asking him to shoot more and just move the ball (plus play defense).  For whatever reason, Rondo is actually listening.

  I still don't see the argument that Rondo getting assists hurt the team when we're more likely to score from a Rondo pass than a Rondo shot, and scoring more is IMO a good thing. Also, I think that Rondo hitting a player with a well timed, accurate pass when they're in a good position to score "makes them better". Agree to disagree I suppose.

Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #147 on: January 03, 2015, 07:21:39 PM »

Offline inverselock

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He showed Boston and the NBA as a whole that yes, Rondo is mercurial.  I don't think he does it on purpose, at least not entirely.  For example, he certainly doesn't miss free throws on purpose just because he is dogging it.  I doubt he misses 3s on purpose either.  Not shooting when he has a shot is on purpose and believing that he was not expected to play defense may be somewhere in between.

I do think Rondo "padded stats" to a degree. Those wide open shots he would pass up to thread a pass to someone were not intended to make the other player better or help the team win.  They were because missing shots was in his head and he preferred from a personal perspective to get an assist added to his stats over a missed shot.

Rondo had a great game.  That is the Rondo we all dreamed of for the Celtics (and I think Danny dreamed of when he said this was going to be Rondo's best season ever).  Rondo making those shots is lethal NBA weapon (as Tommy has said).  He just never made them for the Celtics.  Maybe he really had a problem with Stevens, maybe is was coasting to get to his next contract, maybe what you surround Rondo with makes a huge difference, maybe he is just mercurial, I don't' know but he was not doing it here, that is for sure.

Ironically, it appears that Danny may be right, Rondo may have his best season ever.  Unfortunately, it is not going to happen in a Celtics uniform.  He had his chance to do it here but didn't.  Now he is in Dallas and doing it (at least sometimes).  Let the debate rage on.

Wow, you have more insight into the inner thoughts of Rajon Rondo than anyone else.

I probably needed to word this differently to not make it seem like I know what Rondo is thinking.  I don't think anyone would dispute that Rondo was hesitant to shoot so I think we can start with that as a premise.  From there I am saying that I believe Rondo's over passing and at times over "pounding" that resulted in part from his reluctance to shoot, was not making anyone else better and was not helping the team but only serving to pad his assist stats.

Apparently, Carlisle came to the same conclusion because it appears that Rondo's new coach is asking him to shoot more and just move the ball (plus play defense).  For whatever reason, Rondo is actually listening.

  I still don't see the argument that Rondo getting assists hurt the team when we're more likely to score from a Rondo pass than a Rondo shot, and scoring more is IMO a good thing. Also, I think that Rondo hitting a player with a well timed, accurate pass when they're in a good position to score "makes them better". Agree to disagree I suppose.

Its absolutely detrimental, deferring to a bunch of role players for scoring.  Rondo's dribble penetration was the best offensive skill on the team.   He needed to attack the basket and shoot.

Carlisle has finally made Rondo into a basketballer instead of a quarterback.  Good team offense.  Multiple threats to score.  Averaging 15pts, 7ast.  Great Balance between scoring and playmaking.

Doc & Stevens have couldn't get through to Rondo or think quarterback offense w/no dribble penetration is useful.  Starting to think those 2 aren't that good.

Fans gave Rondo a presidential pardon to not ever shoot, but a praising him for shooting in Dallas.

Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #148 on: January 03, 2015, 10:50:30 PM »

Offline BballTim

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He showed Boston and the NBA as a whole that yes, Rondo is mercurial.  I don't think he does it on purpose, at least not entirely.  For example, he certainly doesn't miss free throws on purpose just because he is dogging it.  I doubt he misses 3s on purpose either.  Not shooting when he has a shot is on purpose and believing that he was not expected to play defense may be somewhere in between.

I do think Rondo "padded stats" to a degree. Those wide open shots he would pass up to thread a pass to someone were not intended to make the other player better or help the team win.  They were because missing shots was in his head and he preferred from a personal perspective to get an assist added to his stats over a missed shot.

Rondo had a great game.  That is the Rondo we all dreamed of for the Celtics (and I think Danny dreamed of when he said this was going to be Rondo's best season ever).  Rondo making those shots is lethal NBA weapon (as Tommy has said).  He just never made them for the Celtics.  Maybe he really had a problem with Stevens, maybe is was coasting to get to his next contract, maybe what you surround Rondo with makes a huge difference, maybe he is just mercurial, I don't' know but he was not doing it here, that is for sure.

Ironically, it appears that Danny may be right, Rondo may have his best season ever.  Unfortunately, it is not going to happen in a Celtics uniform.  He had his chance to do it here but didn't.  Now he is in Dallas and doing it (at least sometimes).  Let the debate rage on.

Wow, you have more insight into the inner thoughts of Rajon Rondo than anyone else.

I probably needed to word this differently to not make it seem like I know what Rondo is thinking.  I don't think anyone would dispute that Rondo was hesitant to shoot so I think we can start with that as a premise.  From there I am saying that I believe Rondo's over passing and at times over "pounding" that resulted in part from his reluctance to shoot, was not making anyone else better and was not helping the team but only serving to pad his assist stats.

Apparently, Carlisle came to the same conclusion because it appears that Rondo's new coach is asking him to shoot more and just move the ball (plus play defense).  For whatever reason, Rondo is actually listening.

  I still don't see the argument that Rondo getting assists hurt the team when we're more likely to score from a Rondo pass than a Rondo shot, and scoring more is IMO a good thing. Also, I think that Rondo hitting a player with a well timed, accurate pass when they're in a good position to score "makes them better". Agree to disagree I suppose.

Its absolutely detrimental, deferring to a bunch of role players for scoring.  Rondo's dribble penetration was the best offensive skill on the team.   He needed to attack the basket and shoot.

Carlisle has finally made Rondo into a basketballer instead of a quarterback.  Good team offense.  Multiple threats to score.  Averaging 15pts, 7ast.  Great Balance between scoring and playmaking.

Doc & Stevens have couldn't get through to Rondo or think quarterback offense w/no dribble penetration is useful.  Starting to think those 2 aren't that good.

Fans gave Rondo a presidential pardon to not ever shoot, but a praising him for shooting in Dallas.

  First of all, I disagree that it was detrimental to "defer to a bunch of role players" for scoring. There are some decent scorers on the Celts, in fact their eFG% is above average as a team. Secondly, before you get on the Boston coaches too much, there's a difference between sharing ball handling duties with Ellis and sharing them with Bradley.

Re: Rajon Rondo shows Boston
« Reply #149 on: January 03, 2015, 11:10:52 PM »

Offline inverselock

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 437
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He showed Boston and the NBA as a whole that yes, Rondo is mercurial.  I don't think he does it on purpose, at least not entirely.  For example, he certainly doesn't miss free throws on purpose just because he is dogging it.  I doubt he misses 3s on purpose either.  Not shooting when he has a shot is on purpose and believing that he was not expected to play defense may be somewhere in between.

I do think Rondo "padded stats" to a degree. Those wide open shots he would pass up to thread a pass to someone were not intended to make the other player better or help the team win.  They were because missing shots was in his head and he preferred from a personal perspective to get an assist added to his stats over a missed shot.

Rondo had a great game.  That is the Rondo we all dreamed of for the Celtics (and I think Danny dreamed of when he said this was going to be Rondo's best season ever).  Rondo making those shots is lethal NBA weapon (as Tommy has said).  He just never made them for the Celtics.  Maybe he really had a problem with Stevens, maybe is was coasting to get to his next contract, maybe what you surround Rondo with makes a huge difference, maybe he is just mercurial, I don't' know but he was not doing it here, that is for sure.

Ironically, it appears that Danny may be right, Rondo may have his best season ever.  Unfortunately, it is not going to happen in a Celtics uniform.  He had his chance to do it here but didn't.  Now he is in Dallas and doing it (at least sometimes).  Let the debate rage on.

Wow, you have more insight into the inner thoughts of Rajon Rondo than anyone else.

I probably needed to word this differently to not make it seem like I know what Rondo is thinking.  I don't think anyone would dispute that Rondo was hesitant to shoot so I think we can start with that as a premise.  From there I am saying that I believe Rondo's over passing and at times over "pounding" that resulted in part from his reluctance to shoot, was not making anyone else better and was not helping the team but only serving to pad his assist stats.

Apparently, Carlisle came to the same conclusion because it appears that Rondo's new coach is asking him to shoot more and just move the ball (plus play defense).  For whatever reason, Rondo is actually listening.

  I still don't see the argument that Rondo getting assists hurt the team when we're more likely to score from a Rondo pass than a Rondo shot, and scoring more is IMO a good thing. Also, I think that Rondo hitting a player with a well timed, accurate pass when they're in a good position to score "makes them better". Agree to disagree I suppose.

Its absolutely detrimental, deferring to a bunch of role players for scoring.  Rondo's dribble penetration was the best offensive skill on the team.   He needed to attack the basket and shoot.

Carlisle has finally made Rondo into a basketballer instead of a quarterback.  Good team offense.  Multiple threats to score.  Averaging 15pts, 7ast.  Great Balance between scoring and playmaking.

Doc & Stevens have couldn't get through to Rondo or think quarterback offense w/no dribble penetration is useful.  Starting to think those 2 aren't that good.

Fans gave Rondo a presidential pardon to not ever shoot, but a praising him for shooting in Dallas.

  First of all, I disagree that it was detrimental to "defer to a bunch of role players" for scoring. There are some decent scorers on the Celts, in fact their eFG% is above average as a team. Secondly, before you get on the Boston coaches too much, there's a difference between sharing ball handling duties with Ellis and sharing them with Bradley.

Our top scorers avg 18.5, 13.5, 12.7, 11. 8 pts/g.  Nothing good there.  Rondo's offense is better than those role players.

All year we floundered late in games to get any baskets.  These situations are where you best player steps up.

We failed to utilize our best skill.  Rondo's dribble penetration.  Coach, player, who's fault?  What I do know is we didn't use it.  Its not about making Bradley a ball handler.