Could Rondo average a triple double for the season?

[D.o.s.]

Nope, only one player has ever done it and that was for one season.  He has three this season out of what twenty or so games.  Not even close.

Larry Bird, Magic nor LBJ did not or could not do it.  Do you really think RR can?

Out of the three guys you've listed, Magic is the only one who ever tried, Lebron is a pathetic rebounder for a guy of his size and athletic ability, and I don't believe that Bird even considered it, but if there was anyone who could have done so, it would be Larry, imo, even in the last two years of his career, when he was even more of a playmaker after DJ had retired and Ainge had been traded, but I somehow sense that #33 wouldn't have been terribly interested in the whole thing, to be honest.  Sure, he could do anything and everything out there by himself, but he always did so within the framework of the team, as Bill Walton said.  I don't know, but I do think that Rondo could.  He doesn't have to get a triple double every game, anyway - he just needs to average a triple double, if that makes any sense.  In one game, he could score 12 points, grab 8 rebounds, and dish out 11 assists, and in the other, he could score 8 points, grab 12 rebounds, and hand out 9 assists.

I actually remember Bird saying he COULD have averaged a triple double one season if he tried

  There was one time where Magic (and possibly someone else) was getting a lot of triple doubles and Bird wasn't and the reporters kept bringing it up. The Celts had a 6 game road trip and Bird put up 4 triple doubles in those games (or something close to that) and told people he could get them whenever he wanted.

Not to besmirch the Legend too much, but I'm sure we've all met someone that's offered a variation of "could've XYZ'd if I was trying," particularly when they don't actually perform to expectations.

  It's one thing to say "I could have done XYZ if I was trying to", it's another to do it 4 times in 6 games and then say "I could do regularly it if I was trying to".

That's true -- one's a boast and the other's a boast with a small sample size to go along with it.

[D.o.s.]

I think this thread came around to the essential point.  Bird never "went for" triple doubles or any other stat because doing so was not essential to winning.  I don't know first hand what was going on in the game when Big O got his season triple-double but if a player did it today, it would be at the expense of his team, not the benefit of his team.  A triple-double here and there, sure, that can happen while staying in the flow of the game or maybe only stat grabbing a little.  To do it for a season would require stat grabbing at an unnatural level; meaning not in the natural flow of winning basketball.

Rondo would benefit the team more if he scored more and rebounded less.  The team would probably also benefit if assists were more uniformly distributed among all players, not one player getting them all.  I suspect that Rondo understands this and that he will not start "going for" triple doubles for the sake of getting triple doubles.

Busy, but I don't know if I agree with the first two sentences in the second paragraph of this post.

I recognize that everyone does not see it this way.  The way I see it is the best players are able to do what the team needs at a given time.  Pass when it makes sense to pass, score when it makes sense or is needed to score, go get that key rebound when a key rebound is needed (Pierce was great at timely rebounding).  I contend the team would be better if Rondo was scoring more and rebounding less (if it was that simple to wave a wand and make that trade off).

The assist thing is more nuanced.  I liken it to a team that has one player who dominates all the scoring such as the Iverson era 76ers.  That is simply not as good as having more balanced scoring.  The Iverson teams would have benefited if Iverson score less (or forced the scoring issue less) and distributed more to get other players involved.  Iverson might score less but the team would be expected to score more or more efficiently.

I think the Celtics or any team is better if the ball is moving and assists come from all directions.  Team assists can go up when Rondo assists go down (it has happened in the past when Rondo was injured).  If Rondo gets 15 assists and it is all in the natural flow of the game, that can be fine but it normally doesn't go that way.  To get such a high number of individual assists usually is at the expense of overall ball movement and team assist opportunities.  I think Rondo has been great this year in this regard, better than in the past, but I still contend that the team would be better (win more) if Rondo got less assists and more points.

I don't disagree with you there -- there's some evidence that the assist is the most easily replicated part of an NBA score, but those same studies show that rebounds and points are equally available to teams when players aren't available to play.

In other words, there's not much evidence to support the idea that Rondo rebounding less, but scoring more, will actually help the C's.

[bdm860]

I think this thread came around to the essential point.  Bird never "went for" triple doubles or any other stat because doing so was not essential to winning.  I don't know first hand what was going on in the game when Big O got his season triple-double but if a player did it today, it would be at the expense of his team, not the benefit of his team.  A triple-double here and there, sure, that can happen while staying in the flow of the game or maybe only stat grabbing a little.  To do it for a season would require stat grabbing at an unnatural level; meaning not in the natural flow of winning basketball.

Rondo would benefit the team more if he scored more and rebounded less.  The team would probably also benefit if assists were more uniformly distributed among all players, not one player getting them all.  I suspect that Rondo understands this and that he will not start "going for" triple doubles for the sake of getting triple doubles.

Busy, but I don't know if I agree with the first two sentences in the second paragraph of this post.

I recognize that everyone does not see it this way.  The way I see it is the best players are able to do what the team needs at a given time.  Pass when it makes sense to pass, score when it makes sense or is needed to score, go get that key rebound when a key rebound is needed (Pierce was great at timely rebounding).  I contend the team would be better if Rondo was scoring more and rebounding less (if it was that simple to wave a wand and make that trade off).

The assist thing is more nuanced.  I liken it to a team that has one player who dominates all the scoring such as the Iverson era 76ers.  That is simply not as good as having more balanced scoring.  The Iverson teams would have benefited if Iverson score less (or forced the scoring issue less) and distributed more to get other players involved.  Iverson might score less but the team would be expected to score more or more efficiently.

I think the Celtics or any team is better if the ball is moving and assists come from all directions.  Team assists can go up when Rondo assists go down (it has happened in the past when Rondo was injured).  If Rondo gets 15 assists and it is all in the natural flow of the game, that can be fine but it normally doesn't go that way.  To get such a high number of individual assists usually is at the expense of overall ball movement and team assist opportunities.  I think Rondo has been great this year in this regard, better than in the past, but I still contend that the team would be better (win more) if Rondo got less assists and more points.

I think I agree with this overall sentiment.

When I watch Rondo play, lots of the time I feel like I'm watching myself play 2k in MyCareer mode.

My latest incarnation is a PG for Orlando, who I'm trying to turn into a triple and even quadruple double machine.  Sure I could score 50+ at will, but I'm going for a more well rounded game and trying to see how many of my teammates I can get into the All-Star game.

I'm constantly passing up open shots (and half the time don't even realize I have a clear path to the hoop) after running the pick and roll with Vucevic because I'm so focused on getting the assist.

I've blown several wide open one-on-none, two-on-one fast break attempts because I'm trying to get Oladipo or Harris the ball for an easy dunk instead of taking the uncontested shot myself.

Half court sets I pound the ball calling for picks and waiting for my teammates to cut so I can get the assist.  No ball movement.

Then on defense, especially when on the weak side, I find myself playing way off my man, as I try to position myself for a rebound.  And I'll definitely jump in front of my teammates to try to get it too.

I'm sure anybody whose played 2k and tried to pad their assist and rebound stats knows what I'm talking about.  And I see Rondo play that exact same way in real life more so than anybody else (other than JaVale McGee or Andray Blatche when they're looking for a triple double).

Playing that way has definitely cost my teams some points, on both offense and defense, and I see the same thing in Rondo's game many times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Ur8rtAinI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDzRvZcFn48

[ssspence]

he probably could, if he plays for stat padding, which he's obviously not afraid of....

[Vermont Green]

I don't disagree with you there -- there's some evidence that the assist is the most easily replicated part of an NBA score, but those same studies show that rebounds and points are equally available to teams when players aren't available to play.

In other words, there's not much evidence to support the idea that Rondo rebounding less, but scoring more, will actually help the C's.

I am looking at the Celtics and Rondo as individual cases and I admit, I don't have a statistical analysis to support my point of view.  Dennis Rodman was a great rebounder and those rebounds were very valuable, but he was the best player on a team every.  We are talking about Rondo on this team.  If Rondo was on another "Big 3" type team, maybe those points would matter as much and his role as a rebounding, distribution PG would be fine.  I am judging Rondo in the context of being the best player on the team because we don't have another best player on the team.

So if our best player starts hunting for rebounds or whatever, I don't think the result will be good for the team even if Rondo gets 20 rebounds.