Name 10 PGs better than Rondo

[greece66]

A lot of our fellow C's argue than Rondo is not even a top-10 (or is a fringe top-10) in his position. Personally I disagree, but I'd like to hear what they have to say and most of all on what they base their assessment.
To make devil's advocate, I open this thread by making RR's case:
-He won a championship in his rookie year.
-He is an excellent passer and penetrator.
-Has great court vision.
-He is unselfish (great asset for a PG)
-Despite being a below average 3pt shooter he is a good mid-range shooter.
IMO they are very few people who are beyond dispute better than RR and even with them and our judgment should take into consideration who they play with (meaning that RR might fit better some teams than even some of the other theoretically best and vice versa)
Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Stephen Curry and a healthy Derick Rose. For the sake of the argument, I accept Westbrook too, although he is IMO a bad decision maker under pressure. 
But I think, it is only fair to say RR is at least at the same as league as Kyrie, Lillard and Wall, young talented studs with great athleticism, but who have not proved themselves yet in the playoffs (and are surrounded by a better roster).
I think what drives the RR criticism is not really true concern about RR's value but disappointment with the post Big 3 era. This is understandable, but does not really help the team nor does it lead to meaningful debate.
So, let's hear the other side now, why do you think RR is not an elite PG? What skills does he miss and what does he do wrong?

[Roy H.]

Guys in the debate:

1.  Chris Paul
2.  Steph Curry
3.  Kyrie Irving
4.  John Wall
5.  Derrick Rose
6.  Damian Lillard
7.  Tony Parker
8.  Kyle Lowry
9.  Ty Lawson
10. Jeff Teague
11. Mike Conley
12.  Jrue Holiday

I feel like I'm probably missing a pretty good player or two, but off the top of my head those are the top-12 PGs in the league outside of Rondo (not necessarily in order).

Where you slot Rondo depends on what you need for your team, I think.  I could see him as high as top-5, or as low as 9th or 10th.

EDIT:  I forgot Russell Westbrook, and maybe Deron, Rubio or MCW should have been mentioned, as well.

[4THQTR]

Guys in the debate:

1.  Chris Paul
2.  Steph Curry
3.  Kyrie Irving
4.  John Wall
5.  Derrick Rose
6.  Damian Lillard
7.  Tony Parker
8.  Kyle Lowry
9.  Ty Lawson
10. Jeff Teague
11. Mike Conley
12.  Jrue Holiday

I feel like I'm probably missing a pretty good player or two, but off the top of my head those are the top-12 PGs in the league outside of Rondo (not necessarily in order).

Where you slot Rondo depends on what you need for your team, I think.  I could see him as high as top-5, or as low as 9th or 10th.

I think Westbrook should be on there as well, but otherwise I agree

[fairweatherfan]

He gets forgotten for playing for small market teams that have been terrible until this year, but Brandon Knight is developing into a legit PG - 19.7 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 6.5 apg per 36 with good advanced stats.  I wouldn't call him better than Rondo but he's closer than most people expect.

To answer the main question, it's really about how much you value Rondo's strengths and weaknesses.  There isn't another PG who's so good at the things he does well and so poor at the things he struggles with.  Which is a big part of why he's so controversial here.  Personally I'm just glad Rondo finally looks close to 100%.

[gpap]

To be honest with you, I am not even sure this is a fair question.

I think now we are past the "Is Rondo better than CP3?"or the "how does Rondo compare to other point guards?" debate.

At this point, I think it's just a matter of trying to figure out what Rondo's long-term future in Boston is.

Does he end up being the new Pierce where the Celts build around him as they try to gear toward another banner or is he playing out the final chapter before moving on either in free agency or in a trade before the trade deadline?

I think an important thing to remember is other point guards like Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Derrick Rose, John Wall, Westbrook, Lillard and Kyrie have more established talent to work with.

This is apparent as Rondo looked alot better on the court with the big 3 by his side as opposed to a rebuilding team.

So really now it becomes a question of whether Brad Stevens, Danny Ainge and Wyc decide to build better talent around Rondo next season for a championship run or whether or not they just don't feel keeping Rondo is in their best interests for both the short and long term.

It's also important to remember that other, better point guards would also struggle if they are on a rebuilding team.

[Who]

Guys in the debate:

1.  Chris Paul
2.  Steph Curry
3.  Kyrie Irving
4.  John Wall
5.  Derrick Rose
6.  Damian Lillard
7.  Tony Parker
8.  Kyle Lowry
9.  Ty Lawson
10. Jeff Teague
11. Mike Conley
12.  Jrue Holiday

I feel like I'm probably missing a pretty good player or two, but off the top of my head those are the top-12 PGs in the league outside of Rondo (not necessarily in order).

Where you slot Rondo depends on what you need for your team, I think.  I could see him as high as top-5, or as low as 9th or 10th.

EDIT:  I forgot Russell Westbrook, and maybe Deron, Rubio or MCW should have been mentioned, as well.

Goran Dragic is another one.

[manl_lui]

In no particular order and on top of my head

1. Cp3
2. Rose
3. Westbrook
4. Lillard
5. Irving
6. Wall
7. Steph Curry
8. Tony Parker
9. Conley
10.

[greece66]

Guys in the debate:

1.  Chris Paul
2.  Steph Curry
3.  Kyrie Irving
4.  John Wall
5.  Derrick Rose
6.  Damian Lillard
7.  Tony Parker
8.  Kyle Lowry
9.  Ty Lawson
10. Jeff Teague
11. Mike Conley
12.  Jrue Holiday

I feel like I'm probably missing a pretty good player or two, but off the top of my head those are the top-12 PGs in the league outside of Rondo (not necessarily in order).

Where you slot Rondo depends on what you need for your team, I think.  I could see him as high as top-5, or as low as 9th or 10th.

EDIT:  I forgot Russell Westbrook, and maybe Deron, Rubio or MCW should have been mentioned, as well.

Cool list.
IMO Holiday does not deserve to enter yet.
Neither does MCW but he is a guy I really love. He has a crazy rebounding ability for a PG (I know, I know, he sometimes 'forgets' to defend to position himself for the rebound but still...) and has exhibited true leadership ability in Philly. By this mean, I mean he plays with the same composure whether its min 1 or 48, sthg great for such a young player.
Leadership is the thing that makes evaluating PGs so hard. Chris Paul for instance is great, arguably the greatest in terms of ability, but you can see (this year's game against SAS, last year's playoff series against OKC) he occasionally gets scared in the last minutes of the game. In certain occasions (despite his unquestionable assets) he blew it for his team by not showing character.
This is something that does not show in stats but IMO should be part of the conversation.

[D.o.s.]

Mike Conley is getting no respect in this thread.

[Who]

I got Rondo in top 5 PGs along with Tony Parker, CP3, Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook.

I have Rondo outside top 5 for performance so far this season because his shooting has been absolutely atrocious thus far ... but I expect that will remedy itself over time and he'll be back to his normal not-so-good shooting self and regain his place in top 5 in near future.

Next five (5-10) = Wall, Dragic, Kyrie, Lillard and D-Rose.
10-15 = Conley, Lowry, Holiday, Teague, Ty Lawson.
Then Deron, Rubio and Calderon.

[greece66]

Mike Conley is getting no respect in this thread.

Got me! I'm a hater 

[manl_lui]

would it be stupid to say difference between top 10 scoring pg and a top 10 pure pass-first pg?

if it's pass-first, Rondo is top 5
if it's scoring, you can probably name 20 pg that is a better scorer than Rondo

[e4sym0de]

Tier 1 - Curry, Parker, Westbrook, Paul

Tier 2 - Wall, Rose, Lillard, Irving, Lowry

Tier 3 - Conley, Teague, Lawson, Dragic, Williams

I would slot Rondo in the 3rd Tier atm especially because of his horrible FT%
However I could see Rondo easily climb to the 2nd Tier and PlayOff Rondo is def. Tier1

[wdleehi]

Magic Johnson
Isaiah Thomson
John Stockton
Jason Kidd
Chris Paul
Bob Cousy
Steve Nash (the MVP years)
Gary Payton
Derrick Rose (the MVP year)
Tony Parker.




(not top 10 all time per say, just 10 off the top of my head)

[greece66]

Magic Johnson
Isaiah Thomson
John Stockton
Jason Kidd
Chris Paul
Bob Cousy
Steve Nash (the MVP years)
Gary Payton
Derrick Rose (the MVP year)
Tony Parker.




(not top 10 all time per say, just 10 off the top of my head)

LOL TP