Author Topic: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak  (Read 7964 times)

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Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2014, 01:01:28 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Okay, I do remember Schroeder being compared to Rondo in some mock drafts, but I don't see any similarities between them, honestly, so what did I miss?

Even if he does, it makes even more sense not to draft him.

Why take someone who's potential is what we already have?

If Schroeder was anything like Rondo, he would have been a lottery pick, especially in that draft.

Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2014, 01:06:57 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Okay, I do remember Schroeder being compared to Rondo in some mock drafts, but I don't see any similarities between them, honestly, so what did I miss?

Even if he does, it makes even more sense not to draft him.

Why take someone who's potential is what we already have?

If Schroeder was anything like Rondo, he would have been a lottery pick, especially in that draft.

If anyone had known that Rondo was going to become Rondo, he would have been a lottery pick, especially in that draft. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2014, 01:12:18 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Okay, I do remember Schroeder being compared to Rondo in some mock drafts, but I don't see any similarities between them, honestly, so what did I miss?

Even if he does, it makes even more sense not to draft him.

Why take someone who's potential is what we already have?

If Schroeder was anything like Rondo, he would have been a lottery pick, especially in that draft.

If anyone had known that Rondo was going to become Rondo, he would have been a lottery pick, especially in that draft.

Wait, I thought he was nothing more than a mediocre, role playing, 3rd tier point guard (sarcasm) ::).  I wonder who made that pick?  Was it Ainge, or someone else, do you think?

Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2014, 01:15:54 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Okay, I do remember Schroeder being compared to Rondo in some mock drafts, but I don't see any similarities between them, honestly, so what did I miss?

Even if he does, it makes even more sense not to draft him.

Why take someone who's potential is what we already have?

If Schroeder was anything like Rondo, he would have been a lottery pick, especially in that draft.

If anyone had known that Rondo was going to become Rondo, he would have been a lottery pick, especially in that draft.

Wait, I thought he was nothing more than a mediocre, role playing, 3rd tier point guard (sarcasm) ::).  I wonder who made that pick?  Was it Ainge, or someone else, do you think?

My point is simply that how good a player will be in the NBA is not directly correlated with where that player was picked in the draft. 

Schroeder is going to be good.  Will he be as good as Rondo?

I don't know, but I hope so. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2014, 01:47:58 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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I agree with the OP. I get that the post is a knee-jerk reaction, but as many pointed out, a lot are. I thought the KO pick was bad - he looks a whole lot like a poor man's Ryan Anderson. We traded up, into the lottery, for a stretch 4 that can't defend? With a 6 foot wingspan? Then thinking back to Fab... we really have not drafted wisely in quite a few years. Naysayers please argue that... I'd like to feel better about our future. In reality, I do agree (despite the inevitable negging heading my way) that the OP is right - Ainge sucks.
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Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2014, 03:01:20 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Instead Danny drafts the mental case Kelly Olynyk. How is that working out? Danny used to draft well. He and Rondo both need to go.

How exactly would this have made us significantly better off?

Antetokounmpo (per 36 minutes) is averaging 15.8 points, 7.9 rebounds and 2.6 assists, 1 steal and 0.7 blocks while shooting 48% from the field and 15% from three, 73% from the line

Schroeder is averaging (per 36) 18 points, 6 assists, 3.6 rebounds, 2.7 steals while shooting 53% from the field, 22% from three and 83% from the line.

Kelly Olynyk is averaging (per 36) 15 points, 7.9 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.3 steals and 0.7 blocks while shooting 50% from the field, 43% from three and 77% from the line.

Honestly, I would say that all three of those guys have been pretty comparable statistically so far this season, though KO is the only guy of that trio that can actually hit an outside jumper with anything even slightly resembling consistency. 

Plus as much as Schroeder's per 36 stats might look impressive, it's hardly a large enough sample size to be taken seriously - the guy has only played an average of 13 minutes per game over 14 games.  His stats last year (in a larger sample size) were not even close to those numbers, so we're still yet to see if he can actually keep that up or if it's pure fluke.

KO has put up pretty consistent numbers both this season and last season, so there's a larger sample size to be able to conclude that there is some legit skill / talent there.

I guess this really is just another case of "grass is greener on the other side", which a pretty typical mind frame on this forum.  Wouldn't surprise me if the Hawks fans are sitting around wishing they took Olynyk, and I'm pretty sure the Mav's are probably wishing they never traded that pick as well...he probably would have been a nice big off the bench for them.

At the end of the day people love to bag Danny Ainge, but in aside from the Fab Melo experiment (which always was a conscious gamble) he's made very few draft decisions that were anything less than excellent. KO and Sully are both looking like top 5 players from their respective drafts right now, and Danny managed to get both guys armed with only picks in the 20's.  I think that's pretty impressive.  He's done very nicely with James  Young too I think - looks like a lot of potential there.

Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2014, 03:01:50 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Okay, I do remember Schroeder being compared to Rondo in some mock drafts, but I don't see any similarities between them, honestly, so what did I miss?

Even if he does, it makes even more sense not to draft him.

Why take someone who's potential is what we already have?

If Schroeder was anything like Rondo, he would have been a lottery pick, especially in that draft.

If anyone had known that Rondo was going to become Rondo, he would have been a lottery pick, especially in that draft.

Wait, I thought he was nothing more than a mediocre, role playing, 3rd tier point guard (sarcasm) ::).  I wonder who made that pick?  Was it Ainge, or someone else, do you think?

My point is simply that how good a player will be in the NBA is not directly correlated with where that player was picked in the draft.

Schroeder is going to be good.  Will he be as good as Rondo?

I don't know, but I hope so.

Well duh, lol ;D, but Rondo is the most unique player in the game, and I don't see any of that with Schroeder.  Perhaps I should watch more of him.  From the very first preseason game of Rondo's career, though, there was a, "woah, this kid is awesome," for me, anyway.   

Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2014, 03:08:15 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I agree with the OP. I get that the post is a knee-jerk reaction, but as many pointed out, a lot are. I thought the KO pick was bad - he looks a whole lot like a poor man's Ryan Anderson. We traded up, into the lottery, for a stretch 4 that can't defend? With a 6 foot wingspan? Then thinking back to Fab... we really have not drafted wisely in quite a few years. Naysayers please argue that... I'd like to feel better about our future. In reality, I do agree (despite the inevitable negging heading my way) that the OP is right - Ainge sucks.

Ok, so armed with picks in the low 20's, who would you have taken at that very moment (i.e. without the benefit of having seen the future) instead of Kelly Olynyk and Jared Sullinger, in those respective drafts?

How are those said players performing now compared to Olynyk and Sullinger?

Also in defence of the Fab Melo pick, how many players that were taken after pick #20 have become make any form of legitimate impact in the league, so as to prove Boston's future would have been any better at all if Danny didn't gamble on Fab?

Basically what it comes down to is, who would you have taken with the KO/Sully/Fab picks and would your decisions have made Boston a better team (in terms of wins) right now?  I doubt it. 

People are talking about Danny as if he had top 10 picks and passed on guys who were guaranteed starting calibre guys to draft the guys he drafted...rubbish.  He had first round picks in the 20's in what were ultimately two of the weaker drafts of the past 5-10 years.  I don't think there is any other GM who had picks in those ranges, who has selected better than Danny did.  If so, who?

Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2014, 03:09:09 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Instead Danny drafts the mental case Kelly Olynyk. How is that working out? Danny used to draft well. He and Rondo both need to go.

How exactly would this have made us significantly better off?

Antetokounmpo (per 36 minutes) is averaging 15.8 points, 7.9 rebounds and 2.6 assists, 1 steal and 0.7 blocks while shooting 48% from the field and 15% from three, 73% from the line

Schroeder is averaging (per 36) 18 points, 6 assists, 3.6 rebounds, 2.7 steals while shooting 53% from the field, 22% from three and 83% from the line.

Kelly Olynyk is averaging (per 36) 15 points, 7.9 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.3 steals and 0.7 blocks while shooting 50% from the field, 43% from three and 77% from the line.

Honestly, I would say that all three of those guys have been pretty comparable statistically so far this season, though KO is the only guy of that trio that can actually hit an outside jumper with anything even slightly resembling consistency. 

Plus as much as Schroeder's per 36 stats might look impressive, it's hardly a large enough sample size to be taken seriously - the guy has only played an average of 13 minutes per game over 14 games.  His stats last year (in a larger sample size) were not even close to those numbers, so we're still yet to see if he can actually keep that up or if it's pure fluke.

KO has put up pretty consistent numbers both this season and last season, so there's a larger sample size to be able to conclude that there is some legit skill / talent there.

I guess this really is just another case of "grass is greener on the other side", which a pretty typical mind frame on this forum.  Wouldn't surprise me if the Hawks fans are sitting around wishing they took Olynyk, and I'm pretty sure the Mav's are probably wishing they never traded that pick as well...he probably would have been a nice big off the bench for them.

At the end of the day people love to bag Danny Ainge, but in aside from the Fab Melo experiment (which always was a conscious gamble) he's made very few draft decisions that were anything less than excellent. KO and Sully are both looking like top 5 players from their respective drafts right now, and Danny managed to get both guys armed with only picks in the 20's.  I think that's pretty impressive.  He's done very nicely with James  Young too I think - looks like a lot of potential there.

It's not all about the numbers, it's also how they play and what they can do on the court - on both ends.  Sure, their stats might be similar, but watch Giannis play and you'll see the difference.  It's not even close. 

I'm not giving Ainge credit for Sullinger, either.  He was a lottery pick before the medical reports came out, so you pretty much had to take him there, otherwise OKC would have, imo.  That draft could have been outstanding for us, because we could have come away with Sully, Wroten, and Henry Sims.  Sigh.

As for who we would have taken in place of KO, do you mean from our original draft position, or trading up?  I think the best way would be to judge who we would have taken from our original pick, because trades don't really matter in this discussion - it's all about who would you have selected at 16, and at the time, I wanted Tim Hardaway JR, who's turned out to be much better than I thought he'd be.  Shabazz Muhammed had a great game off the bench the other day, btw.  I think he had 28 points.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 03:31:09 AM by Beat LA »

Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2014, 03:12:10 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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I agree with the OP. I get that the post is a knee-jerk reaction, but as many pointed out, a lot are. I thought the KO pick was bad - he looks a whole lot like a poor man's Ryan Anderson. We traded up, into the lottery, for a stretch 4 that can't defend? With a 6 foot wingspan? Then thinking back to Fab... we really have not drafted wisely in quite a few years. Naysayers please argue that... I'd like to feel better about our future. In reality, I do agree (despite the inevitable negging heading my way) that the OP is right - Ainge sucks.

Ok, so armed with picks in the low 20's, who would you have taken at that very moment (i.e. without the benefit of having seen the future) instead of Kelly Olynyk and Jared Sullinger, in those respective drafts?

How are those said players performing now compared to Olynyk and Sullinger?

Also in defence of the Fab Melo pick, how many players that were taken after pick #20 have become make any form of legitimate impact in the league, so as to prove Boston's future would have been any better at all if Danny didn't gamble on Fab?

Basically what it comes down to is, who would you have taken with the KO/Sully/Fab picks and would your decisions have made Boston a better team (in terms of wins) right now?  I doubt it. 

People are talking about Danny as if he had top 10 picks and passed on guys who were guaranteed starting calibre guys to draft the guys he drafted...rubbish.  He had first round picks in the 20's in what were ultimately two of the weaker drafts of the past 5-10 years.  I don't think there is any other GM who had picks in those ranges, who has selected better than Danny did.  If so, who?

What about Tony Wroten?

Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2014, 03:14:41 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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I agree with the OP. I get that the post is a knee-jerk reaction, but as many pointed out, a lot are. I thought the KO pick was bad - he looks a whole lot like a poor man's Ryan Anderson. We traded up, into the lottery, for a stretch 4 that can't defend? With a 6 foot wingspan? Then thinking back to Fab... we really have not drafted wisely in quite a few years. Naysayers please argue that... I'd like to feel better about our future. In reality, I do agree (despite the inevitable negging heading my way) that the OP is right - Ainge sucks.

The wingspan alone had me all :o.  That's a pretty big red flag, imo, especially for a guy who isn't exactly gifted, athletically; and I'm with you - Ainge sucks.

Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2014, 03:23:30 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Okay, I do remember Schroeder being compared to Rondo in some mock drafts, but I don't see any similarities between them, honestly, so what did I miss?

Even if he does, it makes even more sense not to draft him.

Why take someone who's potential is what we already have?

If Schroeder was anything like Rondo, he would have been a lottery pick, especially in that draft.

If anyone had known that Rondo was going to become Rondo, he would have been a lottery pick, especially in that draft.

Wait, I thought he was nothing more than a mediocre, role playing, 3rd tier point guard (sarcasm) ::).  I wonder who made that pick?  Was it Ainge, or someone else, do you think?

My point is simply that how good a player will be in the NBA is not directly correlated with where that player was picked in the draft. 

Schroeder is going to be good.  Will he be as good as Rondo?

I don't know, but I hope so.

What is this based on, really?

Last season Schroeder played 49 games at an average of 13 MPG, and in that time he averaged (per 36 minutes) 10 points, 5.2 assists, 3.4 rebounds, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 3.4 turnovers.  He shot 38% from the field, 24% from three and 67% from the free throw line.

Rondo's stats in his rookie season weren't indicative of what he;d become either, at least offensively (9.9 points, 5.8 assists, 42% FG, 21% three pointers, 65% free throws).  But the difference is that even in his rookie year, Rondo showed far greater signs of potential. He averaged a very impressive 5.7 rebounds and 2.5 steals per 36 minutes which are both elite for his position.  He also had a pretty good assist-per-turnover ratio (2.1) while Shroeder's was comparatively pretty average (1.6) due to the fact that he both averaged less assists and more turnovers.

People might turn up their nose at those stats but remember that as much as Rondo is an elite playmaker, it's his complementary skills (the ability to pile up triple doubles with his rebounding and his multiple all-defensive team selections) that pushed him up from being a 'good starter' to being a 'multi time All-Star'.  Ifnot for these things, he'd just be another Andre Miller / Ricky Rubio...nice players, but not all stars.

So far Schroeder hasn't shown me any indication of a guy who can take that next level aside from the 18 points per 36 he is currently averaging...but I MUST take that with a grain of salt given his measly 16 MPG that he's averaged over 14 games this season. 

Those are not the stats of a future star...they are the stats of a third string PG.  I'm thinking Phil Pressey but with less impressive passing skills.



This season his numbers have gone up to a much more impressive

Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2014, 03:26:41 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I agree with the OP. I get that the post is a knee-jerk reaction, but as many pointed out, a lot are. I thought the KO pick was bad - he looks a whole lot like a poor man's Ryan Anderson. We traded up, into the lottery, for a stretch 4 that can't defend? With a 6 foot wingspan? Then thinking back to Fab... we really have not drafted wisely in quite a few years. Naysayers please argue that... I'd like to feel better about our future. In reality, I do agree (despite the inevitable negging heading my way) that the OP is right - Ainge sucks.

The wingspan alone had me all :o.  That's a pretty big red flag, imo, especially for a guy who isn't exactly gifted, athletically; and I'm with you - Ainge sucks.

Well Fab Melo had a pretty huge wingspan, so if that's the key factor in your mind should we and bring him back maybe? :P

Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2014, 03:36:08 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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I agree with the OP. I get that the post is a knee-jerk reaction, but as many pointed out, a lot are. I thought the KO pick was bad - he looks a whole lot like a poor man's Ryan Anderson. We traded up, into the lottery, for a stretch 4 that can't defend? With a 6 foot wingspan? Then thinking back to Fab... we really have not drafted wisely in quite a few years. Naysayers please argue that... I'd like to feel better about our future. In reality, I do agree (despite the inevitable negging heading my way) that the OP is right - Ainge sucks.

The wingspan alone had me all :o.  That's a pretty big red flag, imo, especially for a guy who isn't exactly gifted, athletically; and I'm with you - Ainge sucks.

Well Fab Melo had a pretty huge wingspan, so if that's the key factor in your mind should we and bring him back maybe? :P

It's not the key factor for me, but it is very important, especially for his position.  Fab couldn't even remain academically eligible for the NCAA Tournament :o.  Seriously, you've got to be pretty bad if the people who are doing the work for you can't even make up for your academic struggles.  Maybe Syracuse needs better 'people' for that ;) ;D.

Re: We could have had either Schroder or the Greek Freak
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2014, 04:38:07 AM »

Offline Scottie

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The fact Danny drafted him over either of the other two should be a fireable offense. Period. The. End.
And the fact that it isn't means it sucks to be you I guess. But at least that makes me happy.