Chris Forsberg on Rondo's defense

[fairweatherfan]

PER's a pretty flawed stat, but is there any advanced stat that tries to aggregate total value and doesn't have some of those oddball Barea/Shved type results?

[D.o.s.]

PER's a pretty flawed stat, but is there any advanced stat that tries to aggregate total value and doesn't have some of those oddball Barea/Shved type results?

If you have to use one, use Win Shares (or Win Shares per 48) with the qualifier for the Minutes Played leaderboard over the course of a season, or at least half of one, to get rid of some of the noise.

This is the list from last season:
http://bkref.com/tiny/LTQgN

[Nerf DPOY]

Brandan Wright and Marreese Speights are 5 and 6 in PER this year despite each playing less than 20 mins a game. Clearly, Kerr and Carlisle don't have a clue what they're doing despite their teams' success.

I just felt like piling on.

[BballTim]

As contrary to popular belief as this observation is going to look to many, I have actually been quite impressed with Rondo's defense since the Phoenix game.

Both Rondo and Bradley got embarrassed in that game by Dragic and Bledsoe.  It's looked to me like they have both stepped up their play on that end of the floor since and have been playing very good defense.

It hasn't translated into wins against some of the best teams in the league, but I'm looking for our team to keep fighting and break the seal on winning a basketball game soon enough.

  I think, specifically, you could look to the first two quarters of that game. In the first quarter his defense was pretty bad against whoever he was guarding (probably Dragic). In the second quarter he was covering Thomas and pretty much shut him down. His play's definitely been better since then.

This doesn't get enough hype: I have it on good authority that IT the fourth best point guard in the entire NBA.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg
 

More proof that PER is one of the most useless stats.

Not completely useless.   Not the MOST useless.   But one of the most useless.

It's great for trivia though!

Who has the highest career PER?:

A. Dennis Rodman
B. Christian Laettner
C. Dee Brown

Admit it, you have no idea! 

The highest career PER in NBA history is Michael Jordan.

And every player in the top twenty is either in the Hall of Fame or will be.

Yea, it's a real bad stat.

  So you agree that all the examples of "player X is better than player Y because he has a higher PER" that come up in these threads?

  It's not that it's a "real bad stat", but it is just a stat. Using it as a definitive way of ranking players is laughable.

[Greenback]

Per PER, Rondo is ranked the 32nd best point guard in the NBA...that would mean he shouldn't be a starter in the league...

[PickNRoll]

PER's a pretty flawed stat, but is there any advanced stat that tries to aggregate total value and doesn't have some of those oddball Barea/Shved type results?

I just made a new one.  It's called PNR, for PickNRoll.  It's

points + rebounds + assists + (age/3)

I had to add age to make sure that Lebron was better than Kevin Love.  Here are the results for 2013-2014.  What do you guys think?



Did I just dethrone PER?

[fairweatherfan]

PER's a pretty flawed stat, but is there any advanced stat that tries to aggregate total value and doesn't have some of those oddball Barea/Shved type results?

If you have to use one, use Win Shares (or Win Shares per 48) with the qualifier for the Minutes Played leaderboard over the course of a season, or at least half of one, to get rid of some of the noise.

This is the list from last season:
http://bkref.com/tiny/LTQgN

Interesting, thanks.  I still see some odd results - like LaMarcus Aldridge being Portland's worst starter and Josh McRoberts and Chris Anderson over Tony Parker - but it seems like a decent fit overall. 

[Nerf DPOY]

PER's a pretty flawed stat, but is there any advanced stat that tries to aggregate total value and doesn't have some of those oddball Barea/Shved type results?

I just made a new one.  It's called PNR, for PickNRoll.  It's

points + rebounds + assists + (age/3)

I had to add age to make sure that Lebron was better than Kevin Love.  Here are the results for 2013-2014.  What do you guys think?



Did I just dethrone PER?

TP! You had me at "I had to add age". 

[kozlodoev]

PER's a pretty flawed stat, but is there any advanced stat that tries to aggregate total value and doesn't have some of those oddball Barea/Shved type results?

It's not all that flawed, it's just not very useful for guys that play short minutes. It's a known issue.

[D.o.s.]

PER's a pretty flawed stat, but is there any advanced stat that tries to aggregate total value and doesn't have some of those oddball Barea/Shved type results?

I just made a new one.  It's called PNR, for PickNRoll.  It's

points + rebounds + assists + (age/3)

I had to add age to make sure that Lebron was better than Kevin Love.  Here are the results for 2013-2014.  What do you guys think?



Did I just dethrone PER?

PER's a pretty flawed stat, but is there any advanced stat that tries to aggregate total value and doesn't have some of those oddball Barea/Shved type results?

If you have to use one, use Win Shares (or Win Shares per 48) with the qualifier for the Minutes Played leaderboard over the course of a season, or at least half of one, to get rid of some of the noise.

This is the list from last season:
http://bkref.com/tiny/LTQgN

Interesting, thanks.  I still see some odd results - like LaMarcus Aldridge being Portland's worst starter and Josh McRoberts and Chris Anderson over Tony Parker - but it seems like a decent fit overall. 

Every catch-all metric is flawed. That's sort of the point -- that one just happens to be the one that gets things wrong least often, in my experience.

[Greenback]

Because Rondo is ranked the 32nd best PG in the NBA....is that why we can't trade him?  32nd best shouldn't ask for max money, right?

[D.o.s.]

Because Rondo is ranked the 32nd best PG in the NBA....is that why we can't trade him?  32nd best shouldn't ask for max money, right?

Everyone in the NBA should ask for max money. You'd be an idiot not to, as a player.

The biggest reason the C's are going to have difficulty trading Rondo, and are have always had difficulty trading Rondo, is that he's more valuable to this franchise than he is to nearly every other team in the league, so no one's willing to match the kind of value Ainge wants in return for him.

[Greenback]

It is hard to understand why Rondo is more valuable to the Celtics than other teams, the team seems to win more without him....32nd best and there are not even 32 teams in the league

[BleedGreen1989]

It is hard to understand why Rondo is more valuable to the Celtics than other teams, the team seems to win more without him....32nd best and there are not even 32 teams in the league

The horse is dead buddy. You can stop beating it.

[Donoghus]

It is hard to understand why Rondo is more valuable to the Celtics than other teams, the team seems to win more without him....32nd best and there are not even 32 teams in the league

Well, you can make an argument for the surrounding supporting cast.  How much better would this Celtics team be with Chris Paul at the helm with this cast? 2? 3 wins better? 

We've seen what he can do with a great supporting cast (pre injury).  We've also seen what he can do with a crap supporting cast. 

The Celtics problems extend well beyond the play of Rondo.  This team has a lot of issues right now but the easy, lazy, lightning rod answer is to simply point at Rondo.