Author Topic: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?  (Read 20930 times)

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Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2014, 03:07:45 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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He deserves some blame because there is debate over whether not his a max contract player or not, by the way he is playing i don't even think he is worth 8 figures.  At this point I believe putting good players around Sullinger and Smart is better than putting good players around Rondo.  Its not just this season either, rondo has constantly been a helpless liability in the forth quarter in his entire career.  if you still remember the 08 finals, we had to sit rondo in the 4th quarter for Eddie House or else we might of lost.  Rondo hasn't even been the best player in the current group, so far it has been Sullinger, Green, Smart, Bradley/Rondo

I would like to see us start Turner, Smart, Green, Olynyk, and Sullinger.

Trade Rondo for a rim protector.
Can't see anyone giving up a rim protector for rondo.  I mean... Maybe Roy hibbert, but Bird isn't that stupid.

More and more I think this rondo show ends in the offseason when Rondo signs with another team.  Knicks are the front runner. They love overpaying overrated players.

I think he probably ends up re-signing with the Celtics at 4years/$17million per year, considerably below the maximum, but still borderline superstar money.

Danny gets Marc Gasol to play alongside him on a similar deal. 

Now we are back in business. 
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SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
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Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2014, 03:28:09 PM »

Offline ballin

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I don't think he should be blamed for anything.  He's the best player on this team (though it does seem like SUlly is quickly improving).  The problem is that the team as a whole is pretty bad.  Rondo isn't a superstar level player who can win games by himself.  He's an exceptional player with some major flaws.  He's immensely skilled, but what he's immensely skilled (distributing, rebounding for a point guard) aren't really the most important attributes towards winning a championship.  Stick him on a team of hall of famers that compliment his skills, you can have a really nice team with Rondo.

MAJOR exaggeration, but it's like having the world's greatest NFL kicker.  If the team is garbage, he shouldn't be blamed.  It's not his fault.  He's still a great kicker.    Rondo is a great passer regardless of the fact his team is bleh and "passing" isn't the most important NBA skill.

Here's where the bickering comes from.  You have some fans here who liked to believe Rondo was a superstar talent that could raise the level of a team and lead them to the playoffs by himself.  It's simply not true.  Lots of debates stemmed from that.  I myself have been vocal in saying that Rondo can't be the best player on a champion.   Rondo's my favorite player on the team... I love that guy.  But on the internet you're either all-in or all-out.  I've been called a hater for pointing out the guy's flaws.  I mean... I said the same stuff about Pierce, but Pierce was my favorite modern player of all time.  It wasn't going to prevent me from admitting that Pierce wasn't on LeBron's level.  Still... in the age of hyperbole everything is either the "best ever" or "worst ever".  You can't admit that LeBron was better than Pierce without being a Pierce hater in the eyes of some. 

So then you have fans who really disagree with everything I just said.  They point out that 3 years ago in the 2012 Playoffs, Rondo did this and that... or claim that he was the best player 5 years ago in 2010...  That stems more disagreement.  That stems more bickering.  It starts to slant everyone's view, because they are tired of arguing points they are convinced are right.  On top of that you have fans who buy into the media idea that Ainge has been shopping Rondo for years... and you have fans who buy the company line that Ainge will never shop Rondo.  That stems more disagreement.  More people become bitter with one another.  The snark goes off the charts.   

I mean at the end of the day, Rondo is the most prominent figure on a terrible team in a big market.  He's been both overrated and underrated.  If the team was winning, it wouldn't matter as much... but we are in the thick of irrelevance and Rondo is at the head of it... that combined with the trade culture Ainge has fostered, the disagreement amongst fans and Rondo's impending free agency means you're going to hear people complaining about Rondo for at least a few more months.

Great response, couldn't agree more.

I just want to piggyback on your observations and add that you're right about the assist stat... it's misleading almost to the point of being detrimental. SHARING the ball is one of the most important aspects of running an effective NBA offense, but individual assist numbers don't do a good job of reflecting that. Case in point: on the Spurs, who completely decimated everyone last season, the highest number of assists per game was 5.5, held by Tony Parker. Seriously, that's how low it was. But the ball movement and offense than San Antonio ran was epic. The ball moved so fluidly that it would have been nearly impossible for one person to rack up so many assists, because the rock rarely stayed in their hands often enough for that occur.

The irony is that for Rondo averaging the number of assists he averages, he's one of the most ball dominant pg's in the league. It's dubious as to whether his assist numbers are really a good thing or not.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2014, 03:37:09 PM »

Offline greece66

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Rondo is the last of our problems.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2014, 03:39:24 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Rondo doesn't deserve exclusive blame, and it would be great if fans in general weren't so reactionary.  However, that's the world we live in, and when a player plays poorly, he's going to get criticism.

I think Rondo's faults are exaggerated by some his critics, which counterbalances the exaggerations of his strengths by some of his supporters.

It's probably no surprise that as one of his supporters, I disagree with your last comment.  If you look at comments by posters like myself and BBallTim and other posters around here who have consistently defended Rondo, I think you'll have a hard time coming up with a lot of comments about how he is a "superstar" in the vein of Lebron James, Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, or Michael Jordan.

On the other hand, it seems that many of his detractors are dismayed because he has never lived up to those kinds of expectations, expectations that nobody has ever placed on him to begin with. 

Personally, I see it as my role sometimes to point out the good in Rajon Rondo's game.  There certainly are enough people around who are willing to point out the bad, often in posts filled with capital letters, exclamation points, and angry invectives.  My willingness to point out the good things that our point guard has accomplished doesn't mean that I don't recognize the flaws in his game.   

When a guy says "I believe i'm a Max player" at the press conference before the year starts, what do you think that means?

Also when Rondo fanatics keep pulling out the list of all teams, playoff glory performances, 40 plus game vs the Heat in the playoffs, stating how good Rondo is, what do you think that means?

Rondo gets so many excuses here , it's crazy sometimes .  He is so good. But if we lose bc he can't hit FT's , don't be hard on the guy.  He needs xyz all star calibre support , he can't do it alone.  Yet in that 40 plus game vs the Heat, it was all about him.  He stood toe to toe with Lebron etc. etc.
 

« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 03:48:14 PM by triboy16f »

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2014, 04:02:07 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I'll tell ya one thing.  I drafted Rondo in the 6th round of my fantasy league this year and so far he's been a Top 40 statistical player.  I consider that solid value.  Almost as good as Sullinger who I drafted in Round 8 and so far has been the 23rd best player in the league in terms of points-based fantasy production.    Wicked.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2014, 05:51:44 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Rondo doesn't deserve exclusive blame, and it would be great if fans in general weren't so reactionary.  However, that's the world we live in, and when a player plays poorly, he's going to get criticism.

I think Rondo's faults are exaggerated by some his critics, which counterbalances the exaggerations of his strengths by some of his supporters.

It's probably no surprise that as one of his supporters, I disagree with your last comment.  If you look at comments by posters like myself and BBallTim and other posters around here who have consistently defended Rondo, I think you'll have a hard time coming up with a lot of comments about how he is a "superstar" in the vein of Lebron James, Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, or Michael Jordan.

On the other hand, it seems that many of his detractors are dismayed because he has never lived up to those kinds of expectations, expectations that nobody has ever placed on him to begin with. 

Personally, I see it as my role sometimes to point out the good in Rajon Rondo's game.  There certainly are enough people around who are willing to point out the bad, often in posts filled with capital letters, exclamation points, and angry invectives.  My willingness to point out the good things that our point guard has accomplished doesn't mean that I don't recognize the flaws in his game.   

When a guy says "I believe i'm a Max player" at the press conference before the year starts, what do you think that means?

Also when Rondo fanatics keep pulling out the list of all teams, playoff glory performances, 40 plus game vs the Heat in the playoffs, stating how good Rondo is, what do you think that means?

Rondo gets so many excuses here , it's crazy sometimes .  He is so good. But if we lose bc he can't hit FT's , don't be hard on the guy.  He needs xyz all star calibre support , he can't do it alone.  Yet in that 40 plus game vs the Heat, it was all about him.  He stood toe to toe with Lebron etc. etc.

I like to point out some of the things that Rondo has done in the past, because sometimes I think many fans have forgotten what he accomplished.  I also like to point these things out because I believe he can get back to the level he played at when he was playing at his best.

I believe we have seen glimpses of that level of play so far this season.  However, I also agree with you that his flaws are maximized right now while the team is losing games. 

I don't think anyone can do it on his own.  There are five players on a team on the floor at the same time.  Having the best player, despite popular opinion, doesn't guarantee that your team will win. 

Also, I have clearly said that you have every right to be hard on Rondo for missing free throws down the stretch or missing shots.  I, as much as anyone, want to see him start to turn some of that play around.  I get the impression that you, and others, are rooting for him to fail as the point guard of the Celtics, rather than see him succeed in that role.  That's your prerogative.  Don't expect everyone to do the same, however. 

DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2014, 06:55:34 PM »

Offline traderondo

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I think the issue is that he became too overrated early in his career. Bottom line is that he isn't a good shooter, and you can't be a top PG if you can't shoot or hit free throws.  The big 3 were able to compensate for his weaknesses.  Now the talent just isn't there.

He won a championship so he was considered a top PG but in reality he has always been middle of the pack.  If you surround a PG with 3 HOFers close to the prime of their career, it's only natural that you look better than you actually are.  I don't blame him for the team's struggles, but I don't consider him someone you can build around either. 

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2014, 07:15:17 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I blame Rondo for his, poor shooting especially his free throw shooting but mostly I blame him for his lack of aggression in trying to get his own shot going to the rim.

I shouldn't blame him though, because the fault is mine. He has shown us who he is and expecting anything more than that is just wishful thinking.

While I don't think he is worth the max contract that has been associated with him, he is an absolute bargain at his current salary slot.
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Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2014, 07:26:55 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I think the issue is that he became too overrated early in his career. Bottom line is that he isn't a good shooter, and you can't be a top PG if you can't shoot or hit free throws.  The big 3 were able to compensate for his weaknesses.  Now the talent just isn't there.

He won a championship so he was considered a top PG but in reality he has always been middle of the pack.  If you surround a PG with 3 HOFers close to the prime of their career, it's only natural that you look better than you actually are.  I don't blame him for the team's struggles, but I don't consider him someone you can build around either.

I don't think you'd find many people who really believe he was overrated after 2008. He was usually seen as the guy along for the ride during that postseason.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2014, 08:42:29 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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I don't think he should be blamed for anything.  He's the best player on this team (though it does seem like SUlly is quickly improving).  The problem is that the team as a whole is pretty bad.  Rondo isn't a superstar level player who can win games by himself.  He's an exceptional player with some major flaws.  He's immensely skilled, but what he's immensely skilled (distributing, rebounding for a point guard) aren't really the most important attributes towards winning a championship.  Stick him on a team of hall of famers that compliment his skills, you can have a really nice team with Rondo.

MAJOR exaggeration, but it's like having the world's greatest NFL kicker.  If the team is garbage, he shouldn't be blamed.  It's not his fault.  He's still a great kicker.    Rondo is a great passer regardless of the fact his team is bleh and "passing" isn't the most important NBA skill.

Here's where the bickering comes from.  You have some fans here who liked to believe Rondo was a superstar talent that could raise the level of a team and lead them to the playoffs by himself.  It's simply not true.  Lots of debates stemmed from that.  I myself have been vocal in saying that Rondo can't be the best player on a champion.   Rondo's my favorite player on the team... I love that guy.  But on the internet you're either all-in or all-out.  I've been called a hater for pointing out the guy's flaws.  I mean... I said the same stuff about Pierce, but Pierce was my favorite modern player of all time.  It wasn't going to prevent me from admitting that Pierce wasn't on LeBron's level.  Still... in the age of hyperbole everything is either the "best ever" or "worst ever".  You can't admit that LeBron was better than Pierce without being a Pierce hater in the eyes of some. 

So then you have fans who really disagree with everything I just said.  They point out that 3 years ago in the 2012 Playoffs, Rondo did this and that... or claim that he was the best player 5 years ago in 2010...  That stems more disagreement.  That stems more bickering.  It starts to slant everyone's view, because they are tired of arguing points they are convinced are right.  On top of that you have fans who buy into the media idea that Ainge has been shopping Rondo for years... and you have fans who buy the company line that Ainge will never shop Rondo.  That stems more disagreement.  More people become bitter with one another.  The snark goes off the charts.   

I mean at the end of the day, Rondo is the most prominent figure on a terrible team in a big market.  He's been both overrated and underrated.  If the team was winning, it wouldn't matter as much... but we are in the thick of irrelevance and Rondo is at the head of it... that combined with the trade culture Ainge has fostered, the disagreement amongst fans and Rondo's impending free agency means you're going to hear people complaining about Rondo for at least a few more months.

Great response, couldn't agree more.

I just want to piggyback on your observations and add that you're right about the assist stat... it's misleading almost to the point of being detrimental. SHARING the ball is one of the most important aspects of running an effective NBA offense, but individual assist numbers don't do a good job of reflecting that. Case in point: on the Spurs, who completely decimated everyone last season, the highest number of assists per game was 5.5, held by Tony Parker. Seriously, that's how low it was. But the ball movement and offense than San Antonio ran was epic. The ball moved so fluidly that it would have been nearly impossible for one person to rack up so many assists, because the rock rarely stayed in their hands often enough for that occur.

The irony is that for Rondo averaging the number of assists he averages, he's one of the most ball dominant pg's in the league. It's dubious as to whether his assist numbers are really a good thing or not.

How is he one of the most ball-dominant point guards in the league?  He hasn't been pounding the ball at all this year (and I never saw that out of him in the first place, anyway, but whatever), and he routinely gives up the ball to someone else like Turner or Smart so that they can be the playmaker on any given possession.  Honestly, the fact that he's leading the league in apg despite the lack of talent on our team should tell you all you need to know about the guy, imo.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2014, 09:27:27 PM »

Offline puskas54_10

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For the OP:
The celtics are not tanking, they are a bad team.

Why are people blaming Rondo?
Rondo failed in the clutch big time this year.
He can't shoot.
He's not a go-to guy.
Rondo supporters try to deflect the above facts, which is irating others.

That is all.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2014, 09:39:19 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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For the OP:
The celtics are not tanking, they are a bad team.

Why are people blaming Rondo?
Rondo failed in the clutch big time this year.
He can't shoot.
He's not a go-to guy.
Rondo supporters try to deflect the above facts, which is irating others.

That is all.

I don't know why some posters think he would morph into this go to scorer all of a sudden . He has never been that type of player in his career, why would you be surprised by this ? 

He is still an all-star caliber player , and can attract other really talented players here . Best passer in the league , excels in big games , still in his prime for 5 more years. Add to him!


Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2014, 09:39:21 PM »

Offline celtics2030

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For the OP:
The celtics are not tanking, they are a bad team.

Why are people blaming Rondo?
Rondo failed in the clutch big time this year.
He can't shoot.
He's not a go-to guy.
Rondo supporters try to deflect the above facts, which is irating others.

That is all.

Tanking or not , bad team and taking look the same to me

when you play fat ass Jared Sullinger 30 minutes a game you are already in trouble, and will need to score over 100+ to win

It is not Rondo's fault that Jared is now going to be the man who takes the shots, i mean 18 shots on average is becoming more of a reality now for Sullinger.

Rondo does not need to shoot, not if he has a shooter to run with.

He does not need to be a go to guy

Nobody is defending Rondo. Rondo is who he is, and if you put good to great players around him, its game on.

You put him on the Pelicans and its time to go, you put them on the Kings and they are rolling (even though I like Collison) , put him on the Pacers with a healthy squad and its game time.

But when you got bench bums like Bradley , and average start Green , you will not win any games.

As much as Rondo has choked during crunch time, his teammates are garbage.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2014, 09:39:57 PM »

Offline greece66

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For the OP:
The celtics are not tanking, they are a bad team.

Why are people blaming Rondo?
Rondo failed in the clutch big time this year.
He can't shoot.
He's not a go-to guy.
Rondo supporters try to deflect the above facts, which is irating others.

That is all.
If by tanking you mean purposeful losing, no one is tanking. I just watched Philly and they played really hard against the Mavs.
Our problem is definitely not Rondo. Or Stevens or KO.
But it is clear that this team does not have enough to be competitive even in the weak Eastern Conference. The moves that could have reversed this outcome were not made in the summer. Ainge has chosen to go for an all or nothing strategy. Call it passive tanking, rebuilding or bottoming out, the point is that this team is fundamentally flawed as far as competing in the NBA is concerned.
I love our young talent, especially Sully, but this is an entirely different story.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 10:07:18 PM by greece666 »

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2014, 10:02:48 PM »

Offline puskas54_10

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For the people who talk about tanking:
Every bad team's fan base is soothing themselves with this thing, that we are not this bad we don't want to win.... In reality very few team start the season with tanking purposes. Philly is of them that is unquestionable. Look at the nuggets. They started the season horrible. Now they are at 0,5 in the west. I bet fans in Denver talked about how the team tanking after they lost by 30 multiple times and looked dead. I bet they are now talking about the 8 seed. When they lose again and look hopeless "they will be tanking again".