Bradley is an awful starting SG

[TheFlex]

OK then, could you enlighten me with statistics of your choice?

edit: I would add that defensive ability in general relies on the talent of surrounding teammates. That's the premise of my argument.

I couldn't, because I am not aware of such. You'd actually have to watch a game and attempt to evaluate individual plays on their merit. If someone around here has access to Synergy Sports, perhaps they can share whether those guys have anything more sophisticated.

I think he agreed without realizing it. He said the stats are team based which supports that you need other defensive players to play good defense.

No, that's not what I said. I said that trying to extrapolate an individual defense metric from team stats results in a flawed estimate.

Koz, if you're going to make this argument - which I agree is a valid one, given our measures of performance on D are horrid/non-existent - you've gotta provide some qualitative data to back it up. I'm in the middle of the 2 camps... I think he's better than others think/expected offensively (and he's being asked to shoot more, he's not a chucker), and that he's a solid defender when matched up against PGs and smaller SGs. 8 mill seems like a lot for that - I wasn't pleased - but if you're gonna label him, grossly, as a "poor/sub-par defender," you've got to back it up qualitatively. Our team defense seems too horrid to label him as poor without having specifics..

TP.

[kraidstar]

bradley is being asked to do a little more offensively than he normally would be doing on a good team. that's because he's on a young, flawed team.
if you want to bash him for that, fine, but you're making a scapegoat out of a good player.
he actually brings a lot of energy and hustle every game, which is exactly what you want on a developing team, and people are bashing him nonstop? remember what he did when he replaced ray allen as a starter a couple years ago? he turned a trash team into a team that nearly went to the finals.
on a better team his offensive role would be different, and i'll bet he'd be a more efficient player, put him, in klay thompson's role next to curry, iggy, lee and bogut and i think he'd put up some nice numbers.
and as for the OKC game, the whole team was garbage, it had little to do with bradley and a lot to do with a young team struggling to figure out how to beat a zone. it's an 82 game season, people, and we're rebuilding. from what i've seen so far this year the c's are massively improved, but you'd never know it with the constant torrent of negativity on this site.

[knuckleballer]

bradley is being asked to do a little more offensively than he normally would be doing on a good team. that's because he's on a young, flawed team.
if you want to bash him for that, fine, but you're making a scapegoat out of a good player.
he actually brings a lot of energy and hustle every game, which is exactly what you want on a developing team, and people are bashing him nonstop? remember what he did when he replaced ray allen as a starter a couple years ago? he turned a trash team into a team that nearly went to the finals.
on a better team his offensive role would be different, and i'll bet he'd be a more efficient player, put him, in klay thompson's role next to curry, iggy, lee and bogut and i think he'd put up some nice numbers.
and as for the OKC game, the whole team was garbage, it had little to do with bradley and a lot to do with a young team struggling to figure out how to beat a zone. it's an 82 game season, people, and we're rebuilding. from what i've seen so far this year the c's are massively improved, but you'd never know it with the constant torrent of negativity on this site.

I agree with that.  He's a role player, possibly a very good role player on the right team.

[GzUP617]

He is a VERY undersized 2 guard (6-2 with sneakers? cmon son...), but not skilled enough to play the 1. He doesnt shoot well enough to deserve to start in my opinion. He is Tony Allen 2.0... only he has a more consistent jump shot.

 Definitely undersized, but proven to be able to defend taller players, he guards the better of either gaurd position, usually the point guard (more good PG's than SG's).

 Bradley keeps being mentioned as 6'2 with shoes, and Marcus Smart mentioned as 6'4.  These two guys are the exact same height. 6'3.25  with shoes on. (draftexpress combine numbers)

 Bradley is improving, but if you expect James Harden, Curry, Lillard, Rose, Westbrook etc than your crazy.  He is not a future starting SG, he is the current starting SG.

 8M is backup money now a day's,  Bradley off the bench for his defensive specialties and ability to shoot will win you games with that type of bench depth.

Let's me also say that they aren't really good or great SG's in this league, Harden, Derozen, Wes Mattews.  The drop off is insane after Harden.

You want a great SG, better pray we get Emmanuel Mudiay this upcoming draft,  than all these so desired qualities that we beg for would be answered. (it wont come in a trade, only the draft)

The SG position is a problem league wide,  heck we have a center problem, SF problem.  It will take time but till then our starters of now is just that "of now".

LOL I swear, you'd think we been rebuilding for 4 or more years with these expectations.

Bradley is better than Monta Ellis, Brandon Jennings, Eric Gordon, Kevin Martin, Courtney Lee, Iman Shumpert, Dion Waiter, JR Smith, just to name a few.

Top 3 SG are Harden,Klay, Derozen   (only one of these guys can dribble,pass, create and shoot)

[Beat LA]

Tony Allen plays on a good defensive team.

Tony Allen had to play on a team where the middle was manned by Raef LaFrenz and Mark Blount, and his defense didn't seem to suffer.

Tony Allen defensive rating 2004-05 to 2006-07: 104, 106, 104

Tony Allen defensive rating 2007-08 (year KG came to town): 99

Tony Allen defensive rating 2013-14 (with M. Gasol behind him): 101

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allento01.html#per_poss::none

How does Wesley Matthews compare to AB and Tony in terms of these metrics?  I'm just curious.  I love that guy lol.

Posted a 111 defensive rating two years ago, 110 last year and 106 this year. None of them are particularly good on their own, but when you consider that he has Robin Lopez behind him, the numbers are even worse. On the flip side, he's a terrific offensive talent.

Hmm, that's interesting, because Matthews came out of college as a stopper, and there was an article about how he stopped Lebron when the Blazers beat the Cavs.  Unfortunately, you have to be a member or something to read it, otherwise I'd post it here.  It's from some paper in Portland, obviously, lol.  I'm a numbers guy, myself, but numbers can lie, as they never tell the whole story, and every time I've seen him defend an elite player, he's always held his own - at least, and can get his on the other end, which easily makes him better than Tony Allen, haha.  He's just a tough guy, with an excellent shot and all-around game, and he would have been great here.  Sigh.

[Beat LA]

He is a VERY undersized 2 guard (6-2 with sneakers? cmon son...), but not skilled enough to play the 1. He doesnt shoot well enough to deserve to start in my opinion. He is Tony Allen 2.0... only he has a more consistent jump shot.

 Definitely undersized, but proven to be able to defend taller players, he guards the better of either gaurd position, usually the point guard (more good PG's than SG's).

 Bradley keeps being mentioned as 6'2 with shoes, and Marcus Smart mentioned as 6'4.  These two guys are the exact same height. 6'3.25  with shoes on. (draftexpress combine numbers)

 Bradley is improving, but if you expect James Harden, Curry, Lillard, Rose, Westbrook etc than your crazy.  He is not a future starting SG, he is the current starting SG.

 8M is backup money now a day's,  Bradley off the bench for his defensive specialties and ability to shoot will win you games with that type of bench depth.

Let's me also say that they aren't really good or great SG's in this league, Harden, Derozen, Wes Mattews.  The drop off is insane after Harden.

You want a great SG, better pray we get Emmanuel Mudiay this upcoming draft,  than all these so desired qualities that we beg for would be answered. (it wont come in a trade, only the draft)

The SG position is a problem league wide,  heck we have a center problem, SF problem.  It will take time but till then our starters of now is just that "of now".

LOL I swear, you'd think we been rebuilding for 4 or more years with these expectations.

Bradley is better than Monta Ellis, Brandon Jennings, Eric Gordon, Kevin Martin, Courtney Lee, Iman Shumpert, Dion Waiter, JR Smith, just to name a few.

Top 3 SG are Harden,Klay, Derozen   (only one of these guys can dribble,pass, create and shoot)

WHAT?? .  WOW.

[TheFlex]

Tony Allen plays on a good defensive team.

Tony Allen had to play on a team where the middle was manned by Raef LaFrenz and Mark Blount, and his defense didn't seem to suffer.

Tony Allen defensive rating 2004-05 to 2006-07: 104, 106, 104

Tony Allen defensive rating 2007-08 (year KG came to town): 99

Tony Allen defensive rating 2013-14 (with M. Gasol behind him): 101

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allento01.html#per_poss::none

How does Wesley Matthews compare to AB and Tony in terms of these metrics?  I'm just curious.  I love that guy lol.

Posted a 111 defensive rating two years ago, 110 last year and 106 this year. None of them are particularly good on their own, but when you consider that he has Robin Lopez behind him, the numbers are even worse. On the flip side, he's a terrific offensive talent.

Hmm, that's interesting, because Matthews came out of college as a stopper, and there was an article about how he stopped Lebron when the Blazers beat the Cavs.  Unfortunately, you have to be a member or something to read it, otherwise I'd post it here.  It's from some paper in Portland, obviously, lol.  I'm a numbers guy, myself, but numbers can lie, as they never tell the whole story, and every time I've seen him defend an elite player, he's always held his own - at least, and can get his on the other end, which easily makes him better than Tony Allen, haha.  He's just a tough guy, with an excellent shot and all-around game, and he would have been great here.  Sigh.

No doubt he's a better player than Tony Allen. He's a very good player overall, and it may just be the Blazers' style of play, but whatever it is that he's doing -- or not doing -- defensively clearly is not affecting the output of the opposition.