So No Rondo, No Triple Double and We Win

[saltlover]

We basically have three years of proof that the team wins more when Rondo sits. Check the win loss records.  We lose his playmaking ability, but having competent scorers out there is a powerful thing.


We were dreadful last year in games rondo played. I think we won 3 out of 33 games or something.

The year prior we were under 500 until rondo got hurt and the team rallied and made the playoffs.

Rondo is a terrific player and can be big in the right system, but his contributions are a bit overrated.

i was perhaps the first poster to broach this topic consistently here and the numbers you cite need deeper analysis. yes, in the celtics w/l record over the past 2 seasons + 6 games the celtics win more without rondo than with him. but, not dramatically so. last year is hard to count (or needs to be counted very carefully) given his recovery from injury. this year, he did not make training camp and it is, after all, 6 games.

the way i put the conundrum was to ask WHY the celtics w/l record does not reflect what rondo is supposed to bring to this team, an improved offense and defense and thus more wins. any possible answer can NOT be provided after 6 games this season, but only at mid-season or later.

2011-12
w/out
8 wins 5 losses
win percentage 62%

with
31 wins 22 losses
win percentage 58%

2012-13
w/out
21 wins 17 losses
win percentage 55%

with
20 wins 23 losses
win percentage 46%

2013-14
w/out
19 wins 33 loses
win percentage 36%

with
6 wins 24 losses
win percentage 20%

2014-15
w/out
1 win 0 losses
win percentage 100%

with
2 wins 3 losses
win percentage 40%

2013-2014 Gerald Wallace:

with: 19 wins, 39 losses.
win percentage 33%

without: 6 wins, 18 losses
win percentage 25%

Conclusion: We need to play Gerald Wallace more and sign him to an extension.

Perspective, man. Nobody thinks Wallace is the best player on the team and he won't be demanding max money. So everything needs to be weighed in accordingly if he is indeed going to get that money from us. Does he move the needle that much in terms of wins and losses? If so, by how much? 5? 10? More? Does that make him a max player? Don't we have a more than capable young player (Smart) waiting in the wings at a fraction of the cost? Again, perspective.

If you think my post is missing perspective, you're missing the point.

[Eddie20]

We basically have three years of proof that the team wins more when Rondo sits. Check the win loss records.  We lose his playmaking ability, but having competent scorers out there is a powerful thing.


We were dreadful last year in games rondo played. I think we won 3 out of 33 games or something.

The year prior we were under 500 until rondo got hurt and the team rallied and made the playoffs.

Rondo is a terrific player and can be big in the right system, but his contributions are a bit overrated.

i was perhaps the first poster to broach this topic consistently here and the numbers you cite need deeper analysis. yes, in the celtics w/l record over the past 2 seasons + 6 games the celtics win more without rondo than with him. but, not dramatically so. last year is hard to count (or needs to be counted very carefully) given his recovery from injury. this year, he did not make training camp and it is, after all, 6 games.

the way i put the conundrum was to ask WHY the celtics w/l record does not reflect what rondo is supposed to bring to this team, an improved offense and defense and thus more wins. any possible answer can NOT be provided after 6 games this season, but only at mid-season or later.

2011-12
w/out
8 wins 5 losses
win percentage 62%

with
31 wins 22 losses
win percentage 58%

2012-13
w/out
21 wins 17 losses
win percentage 55%

with
20 wins 23 losses
win percentage 46%

2013-14
w/out
19 wins 33 loses
win percentage 36%

with
6 wins 24 losses
win percentage 20%

2014-15
w/out
1 win 0 losses
win percentage 100%

with
2 wins 3 losses
win percentage 40%

2013-2014 Gerald Wallace:

with: 19 wins, 39 losses.
win percentage 33%

without: 6 wins, 18 losses
win percentage 25%

Conclusion: We need to play Gerald Wallace more and sign him to an extension.

Perspective, man. Nobody thinks Wallace is the best player on the team and he won't be demanding max money. So everything needs to be weighed in accordingly if he is indeed going to get that money from us. Does he move the needle that much in terms of wins and losses? If so, by how much? 5? 10? More? Does that make him a max player? Don't we have a more than capable young player (Smart) waiting in the wings at a fraction of the cost? Again, perspective.

If you think my post is missing perspective, you're missing the point.

I understand it's obvious sarcasm, but the sarcasm itself lacks perspective as the comparison you made isn't sensical.

[Chris22]

We have a higher winning percentage without Rondo than with him over the last FOUR YEARS.

Rondo ranked 29th and 26th in PER for all point guards over the last two years.

Trade him now, while he still has some value.

Tony Parker is ranked 27, yet seems to somehow linger in that starting lineup. Spurs just don't get it I guess.

And San Antonio has a losing record this year.
Everyone gets old.
Thanks for pointing that out.

[blink]

We basically have three years of proof that the team wins more when Rondo sits. Check the win loss records.  We lose his playmaking ability, but having competent scorers out there is a powerful thing.


We were dreadful last year in games rondo played. I think we won 3 out of 33 games or something.

The year prior we were under 500 until rondo got hurt and the team rallied and made the playoffs.

Rondo is a terrific player and can be big in the right system, but his contributions are a bit overrated.

i was perhaps the first poster to broach this topic consistently here and the numbers you cite need deeper analysis. yes, in the celtics w/l record over the past 2 seasons + 6 games the celtics win more without rondo than with him. but, not dramatically so. last year is hard to count (or needs to be counted very carefully) given his recovery from injury. this year, he did not make training camp and it is, after all, 6 games.

the way i put the conundrum was to ask WHY the celtics w/l record does not reflect what rondo is supposed to bring to this team, an improved offense and defense and thus more wins. any possible answer can NOT be provided after 6 games this season, but only at mid-season or later.

2011-12
w/out
8 wins 5 losses
win percentage 62%

with
31 wins 22 losses
win percentage 58%

2012-13
w/out
21 wins 17 losses
win percentage 55%

with
20 wins 23 losses
win percentage 46%

2013-14
w/out
19 wins 33 loses
win percentage 36%

with
6 wins 24 losses
win percentage 20%

2014-15
w/out
1 win 0 losses
win percentage 100%

with
2 wins 3 losses
win percentage 40%

2013-2014 Gerald Wallace:

with: 19 wins, 39 losses.
win percentage 33%

without: 6 wins, 18 losses
win percentage 25%

Conclusion: We need to play Gerald Wallace more and sign him to an extension.

Perspective, man. Nobody thinks Wallace is the best player on the team and he won't be demanding max money. So everything needs to be weighed in accordingly if he is indeed going to get that money from us. Does he move the needle that much in terms of wins and losses? If so, by how much? 5? 10? More? Does that make him a max player? Don't we have a more than capable young player (Smart) waiting in the wings at a fraction of the cost? Again, perspective.

You think you aren't missing the point, but...you are.

[blink]

We have a higher winning percentage without Rondo than with him over the last FOUR YEARS.

Rondo ranked 29th and 26th in PER for all point guards over the last two years.

Trade him now, while he still has some value.

Tony Parker is ranked 27, yet seems to somehow linger in that starting lineup. Spurs just don't get it I guess.

And San Antonio has a losing record this year.
Everyone gets old.
Thanks for pointing that out.

Yeah lets count out the defending nba champs after 5 games into the season.  Yeah their team and coach is terrible, there is no way they will recover and even make the playoffs.

If something doesn't agree with your crazy logic, you make up more crazy logic.  fun!

[RRNoLookPass]

There is no reason to resign Rondo. Trade him now.

I would strongly consider supporting overpaying Rondo and giving him a no-trade clause just to make you cry.

Thank god your not Danny

What a coincidence! I have that same exact thought every time I see one of your horrible trade idea threads. I actually incorporate contractions into sentences that need them though.

[wiley]

Also, for those curious (didn't see it mentioned earlier in this thread, but I could only skim due to not wanting to shoot myself) -- the Celtics are 15-5 all-time in Rondo regular-season triple doubles.  Clearly those are holding us back.

Not good enough.  16-4 is the cutoff for not being traded due to costly triple doubles.

[D.o.s.]

This thread is dumb and everyone posting in it should feel dumber for doing so.

[bobbyv]

We have a higher winning percentage without Rondo than with him over the last four years.

Rondo ranked 29th and 26th in PER for all point guards the last two years.

There is no reason to resign Rondo. Trade him now.

You conveniently ignored the fact Rondo wasn't healthy over those past 2 years.

[CapnDunks]

We have a higher winning percentage without Rondo than with him over the last FOUR YEARS.

Rondo ranked 29th and 26th in PER for all point guards over the last two years.

Trade him now, while he still has some value.

He has very little value as a half season rental. Please stop citing those same PER stats. You can make 100 arguments that are clearly wrong based on PER.

That being said, I'm a big Rondo fan. But there clearly is SOME reason for concern, I'm worried about his fit in Stevens' offense. I don't think that offense can maximize it's potential with  Rondo getting 11+ assists per game.

[D.o.s.]

The question raised there -- Should a coach have to adapt the players to the offense or the offense to the players?

[RJ87]

Here is the better question, if the "system" doesn't fit the best talent on the team, why isn't the system being adjusted to fit the talent? 

Because the talent that supposedly fits the system isn't good enough.


The best coaches are the ones that have flexibility in what they run.








See how easy it is to find a way to shift blame for a low talent team to anyone.

Mike D'Antoni says hi.

[Tr1boy]

We have a higher winning percentage without Rondo than with him over the last FOUR YEARS.

Rondo ranked 29th and 26th in PER for all point guards over the last two years.

Trade him now, while he still has some value.

He has very little value as a half season rental. Please stop citing those same PER stats. You can make 100 arguments that are clearly wrong based on PER.

That being said, I'm a big Rondo fan. But there clearly is SOME reason for concern, I'm worried about his fit in Stevens' offense. I don't think that offense can maximize it's potential with  Rondo getting 11+ assists per game.

+1. Thank you for being objective.

[RJ87]

Where was this thread after the Nets win? Oh that's right, no one had anything to day then. And if we win Wednesday with Rondo in the lineup, does it mean we should trade Marcus Smart? Clearly, that kid's a jinx.

[Tr1boy]

Where was this thread after the Nets win? Oh that's right, no one had anything to day then. And if we win Wednesday with Rondo in the lineup, does it mean we should trade Marcus Smart? Clearly, that kid's a jinx.

How old is Marcus Smart? How many years has he played in the nba?  Is he going to ask for max next season?

You can't compare Marcus Smart to Rondo right now