So No Rondo, No Triple Double and We Win

[saltlover]

We basically have three years of proof that the team wins more when Rondo sits. Check the win loss records.  We lose his playmaking ability, but having competent scorers out there is a powerful thing.


We were dreadful last year in games rondo played. I think we won 3 out of 33 games or something.

The year prior we were under 500 until rondo got hurt and the team rallied and made the playoffs.

Rondo is a terrific player and can be big in the right system, but his contributions are a bit overrated.

i was perhaps the first poster to broach this topic consistently here and the numbers you cite need deeper analysis. yes, in the celtics w/l record over the past 2 seasons + 6 games the celtics win more without rondo than with him. but, not dramatically so. last year is hard to count (or needs to be counted very carefully) given his recovery from injury. this year, he did not make training camp and it is, after all, 6 games.

the way i put the conundrum was to ask WHY the celtics w/l record does not reflect what rondo is supposed to bring to this team, an improved offense and defense and thus more wins. any possible answer can NOT be provided after 6 games this season, but only at mid-season or later.

2011-12
w/out
8 wins 5 losses
win percentage 62%

with
31 wins 22 losses
win percentage 58%

2012-13
w/out
21 wins 17 losses
win percentage 55%

with
20 wins 23 losses
win percentage 46%

2013-14
w/out
19 wins 33 loses
win percentage 36%

with
6 wins 24 losses
win percentage 20%

2014-15
w/out
1 win 0 losses
win percentage 100%

with
2 wins 3 losses
win percentage 40%

2013-2014 Gerald Wallace:

with: 19 wins, 39 losses.
win percentage 33%

without: 6 wins, 18 losses
win percentage 25%

Conclusion: We need to play Gerald Wallace more and sign him to an extension.

[Chris22]

  On Saturday night, five players finished with four or more assists, led by Turner who replaced Rondo in the starting lineup with six of his own. Jared Sullinger, Jeff Green, Tyler Zeller and Phil Pressey were the others.

Spurs style basketball

Bingo.

[blink]

We basically have three years of proof that the team wins more when Rondo sits. Check the win loss records.  We lose his playmaking ability, but having competent scorers out there is a powerful thing.


We were dreadful last year in games rondo played. I think we won 3 out of 33 games or something.

The year prior we were under 500 until rondo got hurt and the team rallied and made the playoffs.

Rondo is a terrific player and can be big in the right system, but his contributions are a bit overrated.

i was perhaps the first poster to broach this topic consistently here and the numbers you cite need deeper analysis. yes, in the celtics w/l record over the past 2 seasons + 6 games the celtics win more without rondo than with him. but, not dramatically so. last year is hard to count (or needs to be counted very carefully) given his recovery from injury. this year, he did not make training camp and it is, after all, 6 games.

the way i put the conundrum was to ask WHY the celtics w/l record does not reflect what rondo is supposed to bring to this team, an improved offense and defense and thus more wins. any possible answer can NOT be provided after 6 games this season, but only at mid-season or later.

2011-12
w/out
8 wins 5 losses
win percentage 62%

with
31 wins 22 losses
win percentage 58%

2012-13
w/out
21 wins 17 losses
win percentage 55%

with
20 wins 23 losses
win percentage 46%

2013-14
w/out
19 wins 33 loses
win percentage 36%

with
6 wins 24 losses
win percentage 20%

2014-15
w/out
1 win 0 losses
win percentage 100%

with
2 wins 3 losses
win percentage 40%

2013-2014 Gerald Wallace:

with: 19 wins, 39 losses.
win percentage 33%

without: 6 wins, 18 losses
win percentage 25%

Conclusion: We need to play Gerald Wallace more and sign him to an extension.

haha, its a stat, so it MUST be meaningful!  rational thought - out the window, context - not important, eye test- throw that out too.

[Chris22]

We have a higher winning percentage without Rondo than with him over the last FOUR YEARS.

Rondo ranked 29th and 26th in PER for all point guards over the last two years.

Trade him now, while he still has some value.

[saltlover]

We basically have three years of proof that the team wins more when Rondo sits. Check the win loss records.  We lose his playmaking ability, but having competent scorers out there is a powerful thing.


We were dreadful last year in games rondo played. I think we won 3 out of 33 games or something.

The year prior we were under 500 until rondo got hurt and the team rallied and made the playoffs.

Rondo is a terrific player and can be big in the right system, but his contributions are a bit overrated.

i was perhaps the first poster to broach this topic consistently here and the numbers you cite need deeper analysis. yes, in the celtics w/l record over the past 2 seasons + 6 games the celtics win more without rondo than with him. but, not dramatically so. last year is hard to count (or needs to be counted very carefully) given his recovery from injury. this year, he did not make training camp and it is, after all, 6 games.

the way i put the conundrum was to ask WHY the celtics w/l record does not reflect what rondo is supposed to bring to this team, an improved offense and defense and thus more wins. any possible answer can NOT be provided after 6 games this season, but only at mid-season or later.

2011-12
w/out
8 wins 5 losses
win percentage 62%

with
31 wins 22 losses
win percentage 58%

2012-13
w/out
21 wins 17 losses
win percentage 55%

with
20 wins 23 losses
win percentage 46%

2013-14
w/out
19 wins 33 loses
win percentage 36%

with
6 wins 24 losses
win percentage 20%

2014-15
w/out
1 win 0 losses
win percentage 100%

with
2 wins 3 losses
win percentage 40%

2013-2014 Gerald Wallace:

with: 19 wins, 39 losses.
win percentage 33%

without: 6 wins, 18 losses
win percentage 25%

Conclusion: We need to play Gerald Wallace more and sign him to an extension.

haha, its a stat, so it MUST be meaningful!  rational thought - out the window, context - not important, eye test- throw that out too.

That's my point.

[blink]

We have a higher winning percentage without Rondo than with him over the last FOUR YEARS.

Rondo ranked 29th and 26th in PER for all point guards over the last two years.

Trade him now, while he still has some value.

Are you a robot?  Or maybe a tri-bot?

[blink]

We basically have three years of proof that the team wins more when Rondo sits. Check the win loss records.  We lose his playmaking ability, but having competent scorers out there is a powerful thing.


We were dreadful last year in games rondo played. I think we won 3 out of 33 games or something.

The year prior we were under 500 until rondo got hurt and the team rallied and made the playoffs.

Rondo is a terrific player and can be big in the right system, but his contributions are a bit overrated.

i was perhaps the first poster to broach this topic consistently here and the numbers you cite need deeper analysis. yes, in the celtics w/l record over the past 2 seasons + 6 games the celtics win more without rondo than with him. but, not dramatically so. last year is hard to count (or needs to be counted very carefully) given his recovery from injury. this year, he did not make training camp and it is, after all, 6 games.

the way i put the conundrum was to ask WHY the celtics w/l record does not reflect what rondo is supposed to bring to this team, an improved offense and defense and thus more wins. any possible answer can NOT be provided after 6 games this season, but only at mid-season or later.

2011-12
w/out
8 wins 5 losses
win percentage 62%

with
31 wins 22 losses
win percentage 58%

2012-13
w/out
21 wins 17 losses
win percentage 55%

with
20 wins 23 losses
win percentage 46%

2013-14
w/out
19 wins 33 loses
win percentage 36%

with
6 wins 24 losses
win percentage 20%

2014-15
w/out
1 win 0 losses
win percentage 100%

with
2 wins 3 losses
win percentage 40%

2013-2014 Gerald Wallace:

with: 19 wins, 39 losses.
win percentage 33%

without: 6 wins, 18 losses
win percentage 25%

Conclusion: We need to play Gerald Wallace more and sign him to an extension.

haha, its a stat, so it MUST be meaningful!  rational thought - out the window, context - not important, eye test- throw that out too.

That's my point.

Right with you man, right with you.

[Chris22]

We have a higher winning percentage without Rondo than with him over the last FOUR YEARS.

Rondo ranked 29th and 26th in PER for all point guards over the last two years.

Trade him now, while he still has some value.

Are you a robot?  Or maybe a tri-bot?

I'm just a Celtic fan who wants to win.

[Who]

Why? Why is it every time the Celtics win without Rondo, threads like these pop up?

The same thing happens with most team's star player when that team is suffering through mediocrity.

Wolves fans worry same thing with K-Love. Big numbers but not enough wins. No playoffs.
Raptors fans with Bosh when he was there.
Last rebuilding, lots of fans though Pierce needed to go so team could fully rebuild and start moving forward again.

Loads more examples all around the league.

This type of thread with Rondo is common across the league with other star players in similar situations with their team -- stuck in mediocrity, fans worry how team will improve in future and become a title contender.

It's not unique. It's not just a Rondo thing. It is a common reaction to star players on teams when teams are not winning enough.

Nice post, with some good context.  I was wondering, since I wasn't around this site at that time, were there a lot of negative posts about PP circa 2004/2005/2006 before KG / RA?

Oh yeah.

The head bandage incident in the playoffs against Indiana was a complete mess. Turned a bunch of fans off Pierce. Questions of maturity. Some called him a malcontent or thug.

Not a leader. Doesn't make his teammates better. Doesn't pass the ball enough. Doesn't play defense. Not helping younger players enough. Not a good teammate. Selfish player.

Gotta get Pierce out of the way so players like Gerald Green can get more minutes, touches and shot attempts. Allow the young stars-in-making to grow properly.

Lots of posts saying Pierce wasn't on the same level as other top stars (especially SGs/SFs) in the league. I remember one where Corey Maggette was argued as being equal to Pierce.

Lots of trade ideas like trying to move Pierce for draft picks or various for up coming stars. Pierce for Andris Biedrins. Stuff like that.

Gotta dump Pierce so we can bottom out and get a top 3-5 draft pick instead of always finishing towards end of lottery / mid first rounder. Need higher picks to rebuild team properly.

Stuff like that. Lot of the same stuff as with Rondo.

[saltlover]

Also, for those curious (didn't see it mentioned earlier in this thread, but I could only skim due to not wanting to shoot myself) -- the Celtics are 15-5 all-time in Rondo regular-season triple doubles.  Clearly those are holding us back.

[LooseCannon]

There is no reason to resign Rondo. Trade him now.

I would strongly consider supporting overpaying Rondo and giving him a no-trade clause just to make you cry.

[Tr1boy]

There is no reason to resign Rondo. Trade him now.

I would strongly consider supporting overpaying Rondo and giving him a no-trade clause just to make you cry.

Thank god your not Danny

[saltlover]

There is no reason to resign Rondo. Trade him now.

I would strongly consider supporting overpaying Rondo and giving him a no-trade clause just to make you cry.

Thank god your not Danny

Right back at you!

[Eddie20]

We basically have three years of proof that the team wins more when Rondo sits. Check the win loss records.  We lose his playmaking ability, but having competent scorers out there is a powerful thing.


We were dreadful last year in games rondo played. I think we won 3 out of 33 games or something.

The year prior we were under 500 until rondo got hurt and the team rallied and made the playoffs.

Rondo is a terrific player and can be big in the right system, but his contributions are a bit overrated.

i was perhaps the first poster to broach this topic consistently here and the numbers you cite need deeper analysis. yes, in the celtics w/l record over the past 2 seasons + 6 games the celtics win more without rondo than with him. but, not dramatically so. last year is hard to count (or needs to be counted very carefully) given his recovery from injury. this year, he did not make training camp and it is, after all, 6 games.

the way i put the conundrum was to ask WHY the celtics w/l record does not reflect what rondo is supposed to bring to this team, an improved offense and defense and thus more wins. any possible answer can NOT be provided after 6 games this season, but only at mid-season or later.

2011-12
w/out
8 wins 5 losses
win percentage 62%

with
31 wins 22 losses
win percentage 58%

2012-13
w/out
21 wins 17 losses
win percentage 55%

with
20 wins 23 losses
win percentage 46%

2013-14
w/out
19 wins 33 loses
win percentage 36%

with
6 wins 24 losses
win percentage 20%

2014-15
w/out
1 win 0 losses
win percentage 100%

with
2 wins 3 losses
win percentage 40%

2013-2014 Gerald Wallace:

with: 19 wins, 39 losses.
win percentage 33%

without: 6 wins, 18 losses
win percentage 25%

Conclusion: We need to play Gerald Wallace more and sign him to an extension.

Perspective, man. Nobody thinks Wallace is the best player on the team and he won't be demanding max money. So everything needs to be weighed in accordingly if he is indeed going to get that money from us. Does he move the needle that much in terms of wins and losses? If so, by how much? 5? 10? More? Does that make him a max player? Don't we have a more than capable young player (Smart) waiting in the wings at a fraction of the cost? Again, perspective.

[Nerf DPOY]

We have a higher winning percentage without Rondo than with him over the last FOUR YEARS.

Rondo ranked 29th and 26th in PER for all point guards over the last two years.

Trade him now, while he still has some value.

Tony Parker is ranked 27, yet seems to somehow linger in that starting lineup. Spurs just don't get it I guess.