Biggest Disappointment So Far

[kozlodoev]

he's older and has to do ten times more offensively.

Maybe he has to, but there's certainly no evidence that he does.

[BballTim]

He isn't pressuring the ball as much as Bradley or as far away from the basket, but we're not getting lit up by the guy Rondo's guarding much more than the guy Avery's guarding.

This is a bit of a chicken and the egg phenomenon, though, because AB typically guards the better offensive player between the two of them.

In regards to assists, there's some evidence that they're the most easily replicated part of a box score for a team, which is not to say that all assists are created equal.

  In terms of AB/Rondo, there's a decent amount of crossover on defense. They both spent some time guarding Harden, they both spent some time guarding JJ and they both spent some time guarding Deron. I don't think Rondo did much worse with any of them than Bradley. And in terms of assists, that might be correct on a statistical basis, but that doesn't mean that it holds in every case for every team.

[manl_lui]

I agree to a certain extent. Kelly had a great game opening night but since then kind of regressed. I understand the difference is he was going against two team with legit bigs guarding him all the time in D.Howard, and Tyson Chandler, and defending them and Dirk isn't easy as well.

I think he'll snap out of it like tonight. He probably cannot guard Valanciunas, but he should be able to score a bit more this game. I'd still play Bass more or Zeller more to light a fire under Kelly. You're a starter now, act like one. You don't have to be the best player among the starters but you better prove that you deserve that role over the other people you beat, because if you cannot step up, you [dang] bet Bass is ready to take that role back or even Zeller

[D.o.s.]

We don't have anyone on our team who can guard Valanciunas.

Tim, I didn't catch the Houston game but I did see most of Dallas. It was a crappy stream (with the Mav's commentators, to boot), but everyone's defense in that first half seemed pretty egregious, not just Rondo's.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I agree to a certain extent. Kelly had a great game opening night but since then kind of regressed. I understand the difference is he was going against two team with legit bigs guarding him all the time in D.Howard, and Tyson Chandler, and defending them and Dirk isn't easy as well.

I think he'll snap out of it like tonight. He probably cannot guard Valanciunas, but he should be able to score a bit more this game. I'd still play Bass more or Zeller more to light a fire under Kelly. You're a starter now, act like one. You don't have to be the best player among the starters but you better prove that you deserve that role over the other people you beat, because if you cannot step up, you [dang] bet Bass is ready to take that role back or even Zeller

Well Howard and Chandler actually guarded Sullinger, not that their pressence in the paint isn't a factor, but Sully is the one who usually gets the tougher defender on him.

And on the other side as well, Sullinger is the one that guards the centers / tougher assignments.

For all intents and purposes Sullinger is the de facto starting center. except for the jump ball.

[footey]

I agree to a certain extent. Kelly had a great game opening night but since then kind of regressed. I understand the difference is he was going against two team with legit bigs guarding him all the time in D.Howard, and Tyson Chandler, and defending them and Dirk isn't easy as well.

I think he'll snap out of it like tonight. He probably cannot guard Valanciunas, but he should be able to score a bit more this game. I'd still play Bass more or Zeller more to light a fire under Kelly. You're a starter now, act like one. You don't have to be the best player among the starters but you better prove that you deserve that role over the other people you beat, because if you cannot step up, you [dang] bet Bass is ready to take that role back or even Zeller

Well put. TP

[BballTim]

he's older and has to do ten times more offensively.

Maybe he has to, but there's certainly no evidence that he does.

  Not literally 10 times more, but I think it's fairly obvious that he does much more on offense than he did in 08-09. The "evidence", aside from an increase in ast% and usage%, would probably be those advanced metrics that you get on nba.com that aren't available going back that far.

[Celtics4ever]

Other fans unrealistic expectations has been my biggest disappointment.

[BballTim]

3 games in... come on now..

but since we're doing it... Rondo. The assist numbers will always be there, but he's got some major lapses on D and that shot... *sigh

I'll still blame hand injury... for now

+1.  There are no more excuse. Stay in front of your man and fight through the picks. Backpeddle faster instead of trying to the octopus wrap around attempt to steal the ball.

There are a lot worse things to worry about then Rondo's defense. Sure he gambles sometimes but for the most part he plays decent defense. The biggest issues on D are Jeff Green never closing out on his man and Kelly's clumsy defense.

  I'm hoping to see our defense improve somewhat. When you look at the numbers, they aren't great but they could be worse. For instance, we're 22nd or so in defense, but Brooklyn/Houston/Dallas are the top 3 offensive teams in the league right now. Our defense in the paint and at the rim isn't that bad and we aren't getting killed on the break. Our 3 point defense is the biggest issue. That might be masking "in the paint" issues, but it could just be rotations/closeouts, which is fixable. Big grain of salt as the games we've been in haven't been overly tight for the most part, but there's hope...

[pearljammer10]

3 games in... come on now..

but since we're doing it... Rondo. The assist numbers will always be there, but he's got some major lapses on D and that shot... *sigh

I'll still blame hand injury... for now

+1.  There are no more excuse. Stay in front of your man and fight through the picks. Backpeddle faster instead of trying to the octopus wrap around attempt to steal the ball.

There are a lot worse things to worry about then Rondo's defense. Sure he gambles sometimes but for the most part he plays decent defense. The biggest issues on D are Jeff Green never closing out on his man and Kelly's clumsy defense.

  I'm hoping to see our defense improve somewhat. When you look at the numbers, they aren't great but they could be worse. For instance, we're 22nd or so in defense, but Brooklyn/Houston/Dallas are the top 3 offensive teams in the league right now. Our defense in the paint and at the rim isn't that bad and we aren't getting killed on the break. Our 3 point defense is the biggest issue. That might be masking "in the paint" issues, but it could just be rotations/closeouts, which is fixable. Big grain of salt as the games we've been in haven't been overly tight for the most part, but there's hope...

Rondo is by a long stretch the LEAST of the problems we've had over only 3 games. His shooting percentage is low but that's happening across the league. 8 points a game, 11.7 assists, 8.7 rebounds, and 2 steals a game has been more than fine. The biggest "problem" with our defense is the interior D. The Sully and KO combo down low is allowing teams to pick us apart down there. Lanes are wide open and their rotations are incredibly slow in stopping penetration to the basket.

[Tr1boy]

He isn't pressuring the ball as much as Bradley or as far away from the basket, but we're not getting lit up by the guy Rondo's guarding much more than the guy Avery's guarding.

This is a bit of a chicken and the egg phenomenon, though, because AB typically guards the better offensive player between the two of them.

In regards to assists, there's some evidence that they're the most easily replicated part of a box score for a team, which is not to say that all assists are created equal.

I've had no problems with Rondo's defense this year personally, much better than last year both in his movement and effort. He's not going back to 2008-2009 Rondo, he's older and has to do ten times more offensively.

Do you think our offense is the problem right now? Rondo then needs to then take some focus/effort off the offensive end and concentrate a little more on the defensive end.

Also why cant he go back to playing d like he did 4 years ago? He is still pretty quick.  Tony Parker, chris paul are 4 years older and still playing tough man on man D. Derek Fisher also was able to play very good man to man defense until like 37.

Rondo does not have to play defense like Ab or smart. Not many in the league can.  He just has to try to stay in front of his man , fights through picks and not lose sight of him.  Calm down on trying to get steals vs just good traditional man on man D.

We really need that right now. Usually when the opposing pg gets through (drive by or pnr) and the ball is swinging left to right or right to left, until it finds a wide open man.Then on the offensive end ,the team is huffing and puffing and cant score.   A bad defensive job by a pg can cause this kind of domino effect on both ends.

[wayupnorth]

3 games in... come on now..

but since we're doing it... Rondo. The assist numbers will always be there, but he's got some major lapses on D and that shot... *sigh

I'll still blame hand injury... for now

what? You can't take the assists for granted. 15 assists in a game is darn good. What did Kelly give us? I think right now we are better off giving Bass KO's mins. Kelly needs to earn back his mins. He can start by cutting his hair. I find it hard to take him seriously when he's constantly adjusting his hair.

Assists are overrated.   You get in assist for passing the ball to someone making a tough jump shot.  Getting open for a shot and making it is more important.

Karl Malone might disagree with this who benefitted from playing with one of best point guards. You make it seem like anyone can grab a bunch of assists. Was Stockton over rated then?

No opinion about Stockton's rating.  I just don't put much stock in assists.   The player putting the ball in the basket has a more difficult task.

Championships are won by scorers that pass sometimes not passers that score sometimes.

Watch a NBA shoot around and watch how many shots go in. Way more then in the game. Every player is going to hit more shots when open. And that's what Rondo does better then most every other point guard. He gets guys open looks. Not to mention the easy layups and dunks. The kickouts when the D caves in. The pick and pops and hitting guys in stride. How can you dismiss all this and say its all the shooter?

Even an open jumpshot isn't a gimme.   Lots of players pass up those opportunities. 

Can't put anything quantifiable on it, I just think putting the ball in the basket is far more difficult, even if your open.

The pass doesn't get someone open.   

The assister gets too much credit for doing only 1 part of the 3 actions required to get the assist.

The pass doesn't get someone open?

Are you kidding?

The passer and the pass are often KEY in setting guys up.

This is one of the most illogical positions I have ever seen anyone taken.

[Donoghus]

If you think Rondo's defense is the issue right now, then you really need to monitor these games better.  Try a DVR if you have to and go back and replay things.

Keep trying to grind the ax with Rondo, though.  Time & time again, its failed.

I think the biggest issues facing this team is that the offensive play has been choppy at times, especially in the half court.  The team defense has been downright atrocious and inconsistent at times, and, lastly, this team just doesn't have the talent yet. 

[D.o.s.]

He isn't pressuring the ball as much as Bradley or as far away from the basket, but we're not getting lit up by the guy Rondo's guarding much more than the guy Avery's guarding.

This is a bit of a chicken and the egg phenomenon, though, because AB typically guards the better offensive player between the two of them.

In regards to assists, there's some evidence that they're the most easily replicated part of a box score for a team, which is not to say that all assists are created equal.

I've had no problems with Rondo's defense this year personally, much better than last year both in his movement and effort. He's not going back to 2008-2009 Rondo, he's older and has to do ten times more offensively.

Do you think our offense is the problem right now? Rondo then needs to then take some focus/effort off the offensive end and concentrate a little more on the defensive end.

Also why cant he go back to playing d like he did 4 years ago? He is still pretty quick.  Tony Parker, chris paul are 4 years older and still playing tough man on man D. Derek Fisher also was able to play very good man to man defense until like 37.

Rondo does not have to play defense like Ab or smart. Not many in the league can.  He just has to try to stay in front of his man , fights through picks and not lose sight of him.  Calm down on trying to get steals vs just good traditional man on man D.

We really need that right now. Usually when the opposing pg gets through (drive by or pnr) and the ball is swinging left to right or right to left, until it finds a wide open man.Then on the offensive end ,the team is huffing and puffing and cant score.   A bad defensive job by a pg can cause this kind of domino effect on both ends.

I would caution against using Derek Fisher as an example of good defense.

[wayupnorth]

3 games in... come on now..

but since we're doing it... Rondo. The assist numbers will always be there, but he's got some major lapses on D and that shot... *sigh

I'll still blame hand injury... for now

what? You can't take the assists for granted. 15 assists in a game is darn good. What did Kelly give us? I think right now we are better off giving Bass KO's mins. Kelly needs to earn back his mins. He can start by cutting his hair. I find it hard to take him seriously when he's constantly adjusting his hair.

Assists are overrated.   You get in assist for passing the ball to someone making a tough jump shot.  Getting open for a shot and making it is more important.

  You get a lot more assists passing the ball to someone to make an easy shot like Rondo does.  Not for nothing, but last year the Celts eFG% on shots from passes (it would be an assist if the basket was made) was about 55%. Their eFG% on all other shots was about 40%. In the average game they'd take about 44 assisted fg attempts and get about 48 points, they'd take about 40 fg attempts that weren't assisted and get about 32 points from those shots. So, in the grand scheme of things, assists really aren't overrated.

If the Celts didnt have rondo or another pure pg ,other players assist numbers would increase. We have many skilled passers on the team unable to use their skills to the max bc of rondo. Look at the way the spurs play

Right now number 1 priority is for Rondo to concentrate on keeping his man in front of him on every possession possible(playoff rondo) , sufficating him.

What on earth?

Rondo makes players around him play better, and players have said as much.

Rondo is by far the best player on this squad, and is playing with a healing broken hand.

Whatever Rondo did to you, I do not get it.