cavs

[Donoghus]

I think a healthy Chicago squad can take down the Cavs in the east this year.  If they're not healthy, it's Cleveland's to lose.

I think Year 2 is when the Cavs really start putting it together.

I think you just hate Lebron James. There is no way I pick Chicago over Cavs. Gasol is a good player, but nowhere near prime Gasol at Lakers 2009-10. It was evident last year and the FIBA tournament. He can't even will Spain to the semifinals at home. Lebron can shut down Rose if needed and they heve Marion for the job too. He held in check Tony Parker too last year in the first round. Cavs are stacked.

I'm glad we think we can see inside other posters' heads. 

Actually, if you go through my post history, you'd see I've been more kind to Lebron than many others on this board.  I'm sure many would vouch for me on that also. 

Might want to do some research before tossing out an ignorant comment like that.

I don't think I said any inappropiate thing. I said you probably hate Lebron James. Looks like you not. Should I read all your post before I comment? I don't think so. (You have a million post anyway ) I did not intend to hurt you. Maybe I should have written: "You're seriously underrating Lebron and the Cavs." Any thoughts what I wrote in my earlier post other than "You can't see in my head" which I agree.

Then why even make the comment in the first place if you don't have a clue about what you're talking about? Just makes you look foolish.

And I've participated in discussions over the past few months where I've outlined why I thought Chicago had a good chance to come out of the east and the conference wasn't going to just be some walkover for Lebron & the Cavs.

Okay, looks like you're a bit cranky and ignorant, like "I said it earlier". You don't even bother to talk about basketball, but your feelings. I'm so sorry not to follow your discussion history and just try to to talk basketball right now. Looks like you're on a high horse. Sorry to bother you sir.

Ignorant of what?  You make a blind assertion that was off base and got called out on it. There's nothing high horse about that. It's pretty simple. I talk plenty of basketball on here and even discussed how I liked Chicago if they stayed healthy and also talked about the game slowing down to half court during the playoff time which helps them, in this very thread on page one.  Also mentioned, which you quoted, that I thought it would be Year 2 would be the year they really get it together in CLE. 

[puskas54_10]

I think a healthy Chicago squad can take down the Cavs in the east this year.  If they're not healthy, it's Cleveland's to lose.

I think Year 2 is when the Cavs really start putting it together.

I think you just hate Lebron James. There is no way I pick Chicago over Cavs. Gasol is a good player, but nowhere near prime Gasol at Lakers 2009-10. It was evident last year and the FIBA tournament. He can't even will Spain to the semifinals at home. Lebron can shut down Rose if needed and they heve Marion for the job too. He held in check Tony Parker too last year in the first round. Cavs are stacked.

I'm glad we think we can see inside other posters' heads. 

Actually, if you go through my post history, you'd see I've been more kind to Lebron than many others on this board.  I'm sure many would vouch for me on that also. 

Might want to do some research before tossing out an ignorant comment like that.

I don't think I said any inappropiate thing. I said you probably hate Lebron James. Looks like you not. Should I read all your post before I comment? I don't think so. (You have a million post anyway ) I did not intend to hurt you. Maybe I should have written: "You're seriously underrating Lebron and the Cavs." Any thoughts what I wrote in my earlier post other than "You can't see in my head" which I agree.

Then why even make the comment in the first place if you don't have a clue about what you're talking about? Just makes you look foolish.

And I've participated in discussions over the past few months where I've outlined why I thought Chicago had a good chance to come out of the east and the conference wasn't going to just be some walkover for Lebron & the Cavs.

Okay, looks like you're a bit cranky and ignorant, like "I said it earlier". You don't even bother to talk about basketball, but your feelings. I'm so sorry not to follow your discussion history and just try to to talk basketball right now. Looks like you're on a high horse. Sorry to bother you sir.

Ignorant of what?  You make a blind assertion that was off base and got called out on it. There's nothing high horse about that. It's pretty simple. I talk plenty of basketball on here and even discussed how I liked Chicago if they stayed healthy and also talked about the game slowing down to half court during the playoff time which helps them, in this very thread on page one.  Also mentioned, which you quoted, that I thought it would be Year 2 would be the year they really get it together in CLE.

You did zero response to how will Chicago beat the Cavs. I said Lebron/Marion can shut down Rose, the bulls real difference maker.Gasol is past his prime, he couldn't lead a stacked Spain at home to the semi final and was not very good last year either for the Lakers. I feel lot of people wishful thinking. I can't see a scenario where the bulls beat cavs 4 out of 7. I don't think many would put money on chicago if you put a gun to their heads.

[fitzhickey]

I think a healthy Chicago squad can take down the Cavs in the east this year.  If they're not healthy, it's Cleveland's to lose.

I think Year 2 is when the Cavs really start putting it together.

I think you just hate Lebron James. There is no way I pick Chicago over Cavs. Gasol is a good player, but nowhere near prime Gasol at Lakers 2009-10. It was evident last year and the FIBA tournament. He can't even will Spain to the semifinals at home. Lebron can shut down Rose if needed and they heve Marion for the job too. He held in check Tony Parker too last year in the first round. Cavs are stacked.

I'm glad we think we can see inside other posters' heads. 

Actually, if you go through my post history, you'd see I've been more kind to Lebron than many others on this board.  I'm sure many would vouch for me on that also. 

Might want to do some research before tossing out an ignorant comment like that.

I don't think I said any inappropiate thing. I said you probably hate Lebron James. Looks like you not. Should I read all your post before I comment? I don't think so. (You have a million post anyway ) I did not intend to hurt you. Maybe I should have written: "You're seriously underrating Lebron and the Cavs." Any thoughts what I wrote in my earlier post other than "You can't see in my head" which I agree.

Then why even make the comment in the first place if you don't have a clue about what you're talking about? Just makes you look foolish.

And I've participated in discussions over the past few months where I've outlined why I thought Chicago had a good chance to come out of the east and the conference wasn't going to just be some walkover for Lebron & the Cavs.

Okay, looks like you're a bit cranky and ignorant, like "I said it earlier". You don't even bother to talk about basketball, but your feelings. I'm so sorry not to follow your discussion history and just try to to talk basketball right now. Looks like you're on a high horse. Sorry to bother you sir.

Ignorant of what?  You make a blind assertion that was off base and got called out on it. There's nothing high horse about that. It's pretty simple. I talk plenty of basketball on here and even discussed how I liked Chicago if they stayed healthy and also talked about the game slowing down to half court during the playoff time which helps them, in this very thread on page one.  Also mentioned, which you quoted, that I thought it would be Year 2 would be the year they really get it together in CLE.

You did zero response to how will Chicago beat the Cavs. I said Lebron/Marion can shut down Rose, the bulls real difference maker.Gasol is past his prime, he couldn't lead a stacked Spain at home to the semi final and was not very good last year either for the Lakers. I feel lot of people wishful thinking. I can't see a scenario where the bulls beat cavs 4 out of 7. I don't think many would put money on chicago if you put a gun to their heads.

The hell you talking about he couldn't lead a Spain side? He was their best performer by a long margin.

I'd also like to remind you that per36 Pau Gasol had one of his best seasons ever last year.

[gpap]

Deep playoff experience doesn't mean much either, especially when your leader is a 4 time MVP with 5 trips to the NBA Finals in his career.  That said Marion, Varejao, Haywood, and Miller all have deep playoff runs (3 of them even have at least 1 title).  They still may yet add Ray Allen.  The Cavs have the perfect mix of veterans and young guys. 

LeBron's resume didn't matter much for the Heat last year, so that's not really a good argument in favor of why the Cavs don't need playoff experience.  Like I said, LeBron can't do it all by himself.

That said, name the last team to win the title with 4/5ths of the starting lineup making their first playoff appearances.  Remember: the starters are likely to play the most minutes, so while it's useful that members of the bench have playoff experience, those guys aren't the ones who'll be on the court most of the time.

If I may, I think it's kinda silly to think the Cavs won't fare well in the playoffs because Love and Kyrie don't have "playoff experience."

I think if the Celts had a trio of Lebron/Love/Irving, we'd all be punching their ticket to the NBA finals in October.

I know I would be.

[Donoghus]

I think a healthy Chicago squad can take down the Cavs in the east this year.  If they're not healthy, it's Cleveland's to lose.

I think Year 2 is when the Cavs really start putting it together.

I think you just hate Lebron James. There is no way I pick Chicago over Cavs. Gasol is a good player, but nowhere near prime Gasol at Lakers 2009-10. It was evident last year and the FIBA tournament. He can't even will Spain to the semifinals at home. Lebron can shut down Rose if needed and they heve Marion for the job too. He held in check Tony Parker too last year in the first round. Cavs are stacked.

I'm glad we think we can see inside other posters' heads. 

Actually, if you go through my post history, you'd see I've been more kind to Lebron than many others on this board.  I'm sure many would vouch for me on that also. 

Might want to do some research before tossing out an ignorant comment like that.

I don't think I said any inappropiate thing. I said you probably hate Lebron James. Looks like you not. Should I read all your post before I comment? I don't think so. (You have a million post anyway ) I did not intend to hurt you. Maybe I should have written: "You're seriously underrating Lebron and the Cavs." Any thoughts what I wrote in my earlier post other than "You can't see in my head" which I agree.

Then why even make the comment in the first place if you don't have a clue about what you're talking about? Just makes you look foolish.

And I've participated in discussions over the past few months where I've outlined why I thought Chicago had a good chance to come out of the east and the conference wasn't going to just be some walkover for Lebron & the Cavs.

Okay, looks like you're a bit cranky and ignorant, like "I said it earlier". You don't even bother to talk about basketball, but your feelings. I'm so sorry not to follow your discussion history and just try to to talk basketball right now. Looks like you're on a high horse. Sorry to bother you sir.

Ignorant of what?  You make a blind assertion that was off base and got called out on it. There's nothing high horse about that. It's pretty simple. I talk plenty of basketball on here and even discussed how I liked Chicago if they stayed healthy and also talked about the game slowing down to half court during the playoff time which helps them, in this very thread on page one.  Also mentioned, which you quoted, that I thought it would be Year 2 would be the year they really get it together in CLE.

You did zero response to how will Chicago beat the Cavs. I said Lebron/Marion can shut down Rose, the bulls real difference maker.Gasol is past his prime, he couldn't lead a stacked Spain at home to the semi final and was not very good last year either for the Lakers. I feel lot of people wishful thinking. I can't see a scenario where the bulls beat cavs 4 out of 7. I don't think many would put money on chicago if you put a gun to their heads.

Well, after dubbing me a Lebron hater from the outset, it was pretty hard to look at anything else you said there with any credibility. 

Here's a hint.  If you want to have a basketball discussion (which you seemingly want), don't start out your response by telling that poster that they must hate Lebron or whoever.  Anything you say after that tends to become static.  Especially when the hatred label is off base and ignorant.

[puskas54_10]

I think a healthy Chicago squad can take down the Cavs in the east this year.  If they're not healthy, it's Cleveland's to lose.

I think Year 2 is when the Cavs really start putting it together.

I think you just hate Lebron James. There is no way I pick Chicago over Cavs. Gasol is a good player, but nowhere near prime Gasol at Lakers 2009-10. It was evident last year and the FIBA tournament. He can't even will Spain to the semifinals at home. Lebron can shut down Rose if needed and they heve Marion for the job too. He held in check Tony Parker too last year in the first round. Cavs are stacked.

I'm glad we think we can see inside other posters' heads. 

Actually, if you go through my post history, you'd see I've been more kind to Lebron than many others on this board.  I'm sure many would vouch for me on that also. 

Might want to do some research before tossing out an ignorant comment like that.

I don't think I said any inappropiate thing. I said you probably hate Lebron James. Looks like you not. Should I read all your post before I comment? I don't think so. (You have a million post anyway ) I did not intend to hurt you. Maybe I should have written: "You're seriously underrating Lebron and the Cavs." Any thoughts what I wrote in my earlier post other than "You can't see in my head" which I agree.

Then why even make the comment in the first place if you don't have a clue about what you're talking about? Just makes you look foolish.

And I've participated in discussions over the past few months where I've outlined why I thought Chicago had a good chance to come out of the east and the conference wasn't going to just be some walkover for Lebron & the Cavs.

Okay, looks like you're a bit cranky and ignorant, like "I said it earlier". You don't even bother to talk about basketball, but your feelings. I'm so sorry not to follow your discussion history and just try to to talk basketball right now. Looks like you're on a high horse. Sorry to bother you sir.

Ignorant of what?  You make a blind assertion that was off base and got called out on it. There's nothing high horse about that. It's pretty simple. I talk plenty of basketball on here and even discussed how I liked Chicago if they stayed healthy and also talked about the game slowing down to half court during the playoff time which helps them, in this very thread on page one.  Also mentioned, which you quoted, that I thought it would be Year 2 would be the year they really get it together in CLE.

You did zero response to how will Chicago beat the Cavs. I said Lebron/Marion can shut down Rose, the bulls real difference maker.Gasol is past his prime, he couldn't lead a stacked Spain at home to the semi final and was not very good last year either for the Lakers. I feel lot of people wishful thinking. I can't see a scenario where the bulls beat cavs 4 out of 7. I don't think many would put money on chicago if you put a gun to their heads.

The hell you talking about he couldn't lead a Spain side? He was their best performer by a long margin.

I'd also like to remind you that per36 Pau Gasol had one of his best seasons ever last year.

Sorry but I saw the games and while Pau was good (I liked that he hit a couple of threes throughout the tournament), he was not special when France led just a couple of points, he did not take over. To beat Lebron's team that will be not enough. The undermanned french squad was not special either. I did not say he's a bad player. Will he be better than Love? I don't think so. People act like he's a fantastic addition, but did not mention Love is bigger addition for cavs.

BTW Taj Gibson will not like being on the bench. I bet he thought with Boozer out of the picture he can start. Now what? Gibson better defender. Gasol better offensive player. Who will play when the game on the line? Noah will play that's for sure.

[puskas54_10]

I think a healthy Chicago squad can take down the Cavs in the east this year.  If they're not healthy, it's Cleveland's to lose.

I think Year 2 is when the Cavs really start putting it together.

I think you just hate Lebron James. There is no way I pick Chicago over Cavs. Gasol is a good player, but nowhere near prime Gasol at Lakers 2009-10. It was evident last year and the FIBA tournament. He can't even will Spain to the semifinals at home. Lebron can shut down Rose if needed and they heve Marion for the job too. He held in check Tony Parker too last year in the first round. Cavs are stacked.

I'm glad we think we can see inside other posters' heads. 

Actually, if you go through my post history, you'd see I've been more kind to Lebron than many others on this board.  I'm sure many would vouch for me on that also. 

Might want to do some research before tossing out an ignorant comment like that.

I don't think I said any inappropiate thing. I said you probably hate Lebron James. Looks like you not. Should I read all your post before I comment? I don't think so. (You have a million post anyway ) I did not intend to hurt you. Maybe I should have written: "You're seriously underrating Lebron and the Cavs." Any thoughts what I wrote in my earlier post other than "You can't see in my head" which I agree.

Then why even make the comment in the first place if you don't have a clue about what you're talking about? Just makes you look foolish.

And I've participated in discussions over the past few months where I've outlined why I thought Chicago had a good chance to come out of the east and the conference wasn't going to just be some walkover for Lebron & the Cavs.

Okay, looks like you're a bit cranky and ignorant, like "I said it earlier". You don't even bother to talk about basketball, but your feelings. I'm so sorry not to follow your discussion history and just try to to talk basketball right now. Looks like you're on a high horse. Sorry to bother you sir.

Ignorant of what?  You make a blind assertion that was off base and got called out on it. There's nothing high horse about that. It's pretty simple. I talk plenty of basketball on here and even discussed how I liked Chicago if they stayed healthy and also talked about the game slowing down to half court during the playoff time which helps them, in this very thread on page one.  Also mentioned, which you quoted, that I thought it would be Year 2 would be the year they really get it together in CLE.

You did zero response to how will Chicago beat the Cavs. I said Lebron/Marion can shut down Rose, the bulls real difference maker.Gasol is past his prime, he couldn't lead a stacked Spain at home to the semi final and was not very good last year either for the Lakers. I feel lot of people wishful thinking. I can't see a scenario where the bulls beat cavs 4 out of 7. I don't think many would put money on chicago if you put a gun to their heads.

Well, after dubbing me a Lebron hater from the outset, it was pretty hard to look at anything else you said there with any credibility. 

Here's a hint.  If you want to have a basketball discussion (which you seemingly want), don't start out your response by telling that poster that they must hate Lebron or whoever.  Anything you say after that tends to become static.  Especially when the hatred label is off base and ignorant.

So what's your problem? I mean where is the response? I don't think you want to talk basketball. Are you a girl? What's this talk about your feelings. I said you're not a Lebron hater in my second post. There are a lot people here who talk way worse things than "Lebron hater". What's the hard feelings? Lets talk some basketball.

[wdleehi]

This is an official warning:

Get this thread back on topic and I suggest that some need to go back and read the rules that they agreed to when they joined this site.

[Roy H.]

I think the Cavs will come out of the East, barring injury.  I don't think Rose will play at an MVP level, and I think the rest of the Bulls have become a bit overrated.  Many fans seem to think that Noah is a superstar, whereas I see him more like an elite role-player, a more energetic version of Omar Asik.

I think that the Cavs will have trouble with the Spurs, but I think they should be favored against any other team in the West.  I think that Kyrie Irving is going to open a lot of eyes this season.

[BASS_THUMPER]

i dont hate lebron..i only hate him when Boston has to deal with him
the man has cut his weight down cause he knows he is gonna have to be 100%
to get in position to win a ring. And he knows this would prolly put him in talk as the greatest of
all time ...

mad respect for james


*sippin*

[loco_91]

Despite that the Bulls look scary, Cavs are clear favorites in the East due to the big ? over Rose. He could be anything between great and inactive. Now, given that it's Spurs vs. Cavs in the Finals, I'll take the Spurs 60-40. But Spurs have a way tougher road to even get to the finals, likely facing 3 tough opponents vs the Cavs who will only have to face 1. I guesstimated some numbers and estimated that they are about equally likely to win it all.

Say the West goes: Spurs OKC Clips GSW Mavs Rockets Suns. Spurs are only 80-20 to beat the Suns (or the Grizz) in my book, as the Suns will be boasting arguably the NBA's best backcourt. Or they could draw the Mavs who took them to 7 last year and have now added Parsons and Chandler, or the Rockets. Regardless, let's say an 80% chance of reaching round two. Now they're up against GSW or the Mavs in this bracket, both of whom will be better this year than last. I think 70-30 is pretty reasonable. Finally they draw Clips or OKC, both of which are likely on par with the Cavs. 60-40. By these numbers, Spurs have only a .8*.7*.6=34% chance of reaching the Finals.

In contrast, the Cavs have a cakewalk to the ECF if they win 1st seed (probably equally likely as the Spurs to do so). East could go: Cavs Bulls Wiz Heat Raptors Hornets Hawks ?Nets?. Whoever is the 8th seed (Nets? Knicks? Celtics?!) will be a total joke. Cavs are more likely to sweep than to lose that series, let's say 95-5. Second round is the Heat in this bracket, and I think LeBron will drop 60 pts in game 4 in Miami for the sweep. But all kidding aside, is Miami next year better than the Suns/Grizz? If Wade is healthy, they're a bit better, and if not, they're significantly worse. Cavs will be well rested; 80-20. Now ECF are anybody's game. I don't think Cavs are better than 50-50 against the Bulls with healthy Rose, but there's two other possibilities: (1) Wiz beat Cavs (40%), in which case the series is 60-40, and (2) Rose is hurt or ineffective but Bulls still make ECF (15%), in which case the series is 70-30. This adds up to .4*.6+.15*.7+.45*.5=57%, and overall a 43% chance to make the Finals.

Now, assume that Spurs are 60-40 favorites to beat the Cavs or whoever might beat the Cavs (likely a healthy Bulls squad), and that the Cavs are 50-50 against whoever might beat the Spurs (OKC or Clips). Then the Cavs and Spurs both have a 20% chance of winning it all.

TLDR: even though the Spurs will likely be better than the Cavs next year, the Cavs have just as good a shot at the title because the East is so weak.

[Diehard2001]

Despite that the Bulls look scary, Cavs are clear favorites in the East due to the big ? over Rose. He could be anything between great and inactive. Now, given that it's Spurs vs. Cavs in the Finals, I'll take the Spurs 60-40. But Spurs have a way tougher road to even get to the finals, likely facing 3 tough opponents vs the Cavs who will only have to face 1. I guesstimated some numbers and estimated that they are about equally likely to win it all.

Say the West goes: Spurs OKC Clips GSW Mavs Rockets Suns. Spurs are only 80-20 to beat the Suns (or the Grizz) in my book, as the Suns will be boasting arguably the NBA's best backcourt. Or they could draw the Mavs who took them to 7 last year and have now added Parsons and Chandler, or the Rockets. Regardless, let's say an 80% chance of reaching round two. Now they're up against GSW or the Mavs in this bracket, both of whom will be better this year than last. I think 70-30 is pretty reasonable. Finally they draw Clips or OKC, both of which are likely on par with the Cavs. 60-40. By these numbers, Spurs have only a .8*.7*.6=34% chance of reaching the Finals.

In contrast, the Cavs have a cakewalk to the ECF if they win 1st seed (probably equally likely as the Spurs to do so). East could go: Cavs Bulls Wiz Heat Raptors Hornets Hawks ?Nets?. Whoever is the 8th seed (Nets? Knicks? Celtics?!) will be a total joke. Cavs are more likely to sweep than to lose that series, let's say 95-5. Second round is the Heat in this bracket, and I think LeBron will drop 60 pts in game 4 in Miami for the sweep. But all kidding aside, is Miami next year better than the Suns/Grizz? If Wade is healthy, they're a bit better, and if not, they're significantly worse. Cavs will be well rested; 80-20. Now ECF are anybody's game. I don't think Cavs are better than 50-50 against the Bulls with healthy Rose, but there's two other possibilities: (1) Wiz beat Cavs (40%), in which case the series is 60-40, and (2) Rose is hurt or ineffective but Bulls still make ECF (15%), in which case the series is 70-30. This adds up to .4*.6+.15*.7+.45*.5=57%, and overall a 43% chance to make the Finals.

Now, assume that Spurs are 60-40 favorites to beat the Cavs or whoever might beat the Cavs (likely a healthy Bulls squad), and that the Cavs are 50-50 against whoever might beat the Spurs (OKC or Clips). Then the Cavs and Spurs both have a 20% chance of winning it all.

TLDR: even though the Spurs will likely be better than the Cavs next year, the Cavs have just as good a shot at the title because the East is so weak.

most legit post in this thread TP

[Endless Paradise]

Deep playoff experience doesn't mean much either, especially when your leader is a 4 time MVP with 5 trips to the NBA Finals in his career.  That said Marion, Varejao, Haywood, and Miller all have deep playoff runs (3 of them even have at least 1 title).  They still may yet add Ray Allen.  The Cavs have the perfect mix of veterans and young guys. 

LeBron's resume didn't matter much for the Heat last year, so that's not really a good argument in favor of why the Cavs don't need playoff experience.  Like I said, LeBron can't do it all by himself.

That said, name the last team to win the title with 4/5ths of the starting lineup making their first playoff appearances.  Remember: the starters are likely to play the most minutes, so while it's useful that members of the bench have playoff experience, those guys aren't the ones who'll be on the court most of the time.

If I may, I think it's kinda silly to think the Cavs won't fare well in the playoffs because Love and Kyrie don't have "playoff experience."

I think if the Celts had a trio of Lebron/Love/Irving, we'd all be punching their ticket to the NBA finals in October.

I know I would be.

And I'd call that homerism and lofty expectations.

I never said the Cavs "won't fare well in the playoffs," I said it's unlikely they'd win a title this year.  That doesn't necessarily mean they'd be a first-round exit.

[Moranis]

Deep playoff experience doesn't mean much either, especially when your leader is a 4 time MVP with 5 trips to the NBA Finals in his career.  That said Marion, Varejao, Haywood, and Miller all have deep playoff runs (3 of them even have at least 1 title).  They still may yet add Ray Allen.  The Cavs have the perfect mix of veterans and young guys. 

LeBron's resume didn't matter much for the Heat last year, so that's not really a good argument in favor of why the Cavs don't need playoff experience.  Like I said, LeBron can't do it all by himself.

That said, name the last team to win the title with 4/5ths of the starting lineup making their first playoff appearances.  Remember: the starters are likely to play the most minutes, so while it's useful that members of the bench have playoff experience, those guys aren't the ones who'll be on the court most of the time.

If I may, I think it's kinda silly to think the Cavs won't fare well in the playoffs because Love and Kyrie don't have "playoff experience."

I think if the Celts had a trio of Lebron/Love/Irving, we'd all be punching their ticket to the NBA finals in October.

I know I would be.

Pretty much it is a silly argument because rarely does the best player in basketball end up on a team with a bunch of playoff newbies.  Especially when two of said newbies also happen to be multiple time all stars.

[Endless Paradise]

Ask LeBron how much it mattered in 2011 that he was the best player in the NBA and on a team with two fellow multi-time All-Stars, both of whom had been to the playoffs and one of whom was already a champion and Finals MVP.