Needs to be said

[gpap]

I agree with the OP.

So far, this offseason has been for the birds as literally every team in the NBA has improved except for the Celtics.

I am also noticing that many people are accepting mediocrity.

It's as if it should be expected and applauded that the team is going to suck for 2-3 years.

I think Boston is becoming a soft sports town.

Maybe it was the "decade of champions" from 2001-13, but it seems like now there's as much buzz about "development" and "patience" as there is about winning.

I don't get it

[gpap]

I am deeply disappointed with the way the Celtics' last season, off-season, and the next season, projected based on our players, has shaken out, and seems likely to shake out (as the case may be).

We have five player about the right height to play the point guard position:

Rondo, Smart, Thornton, Bradley and Pressey; they in turn either can't shoot, are too short, can't defend, or can't pass.

We have two players with big salaries who I don't expect to see a lot of playing time: Gerald Wallace and Keith Bogans.

Our starting small forward is basically a synonym for "inconsistent," and our two most exciting young players are both deeply flawed power forwards.

There is not one, single, complete player on the roster: no tall point guards who can defend, score and pass; no wing players who can drive, defend, and shoot, and no power forwards who can hit shots all over the court/are amazingly athletic and can defend. No two way centers. No three and D guys.

There are some bright spots: Green is athletic, Rondo has an amazing mind for the game; Zeller has some post, and pick and roll ability, and Olynyk's jumper is improving. And if James Young can shoot, he has the height to be a real asset at his position. But - realistically - this team can't guard 80% of the teams in the NBA right now, and probably won't be able to score on more than half of them. Next year is going to be very, very painful to watch. And after last year... Ouch.

You talk about our youth as if they're fully developed.  Even a guy like Sullinger is still only 22 years of age, and only has a year and a half under his belt.

No tall point guards on the roster who can defend ?  You have an all star point guard, what's the problem here ?  You just drafted one of the best defending Point Guards in college basketball.  He's 20, btw.

You need to be patient and let the process play out.  The only thing you need to know is this :

Boston's youth:

Smart
Bradley
Olynyk
Sullinger
Young

Boston's picks:

Boston's own picks
Brooklyn's 2016, 2017 (right to swap with Nets), 2018
2015 Clippers First Round Pick
2015 76ers First Round Pick (or two 2nds)
2016 Cavs First Round Pick (Top 10 protected in 16', 17', or 18'. Unprotected in 19')

Boston's expirings:

Joel Anthony
Keith Bogans
Brandon Bass
Marcus Thornton

You're setup to completely overhaul this thing and get back to the playoffs in a hurry.  Have some patience and let it unfold.  No end in sight ?  Please.  Gimme a break.

Any more patience, and by the time the Celts win their next championship, they would've moved from Boston to Delaware.

[Smokeeye123]

#ThisiswhatrebuildingfeelslikeOP

[NorthernLightning]

I agree with the OP.

So far, this offseason has been for the birds as literally every team in the NBA has improved except for the Celtics.

I am also noticing that many people are accepting mediocrity.

It's as if it should be expected and applauded that the team is going to suck for 2-3 years.

I think Boston is becoming a soft sports town.

Maybe it was the "decade of champions" from 2001-13, but it seems like now there's as much buzz about "development" and "patience" as there is about winning.

I don't get it

No kidding. You sound like a Knicks fan, who refuses to settle for mediocrity even for a year or two.

[Donoghus]

And - I should add - there is no end in sight - at least not to my eyes (but please relieve my depression). There do not seem to be any free agents that will want to play here; our best player (Rondo) is likely to be shipped out of town sooner rather than later; and although there are some inspiring center prospects, and Emmanuel Mundiay in the upcoming draft - after Duncan/Oden/Wiggins - I have just completely lost faith that we will ever win a draft lottery.

I'm thrilled with the course this team is taking. What I'm not thrilled about is Marcus Smart. The Celtics need to bottom out and rebuild by trading Rondo. I assure you that no top Free Agent will ever sign with Boston. It makes no sense with the night life and the talent in Miami LA and NYC. Boston has no endorsement opportunities. Zero appeal to players.

  Yes, that's why KG and Ray and PP all bolted in 2010 when they were free agents.

I love how you leave out that they were acquired via trade. Not by free agency. No big name FA has or ever will sign with Boston.

Yet they both extended/resigned once they were here.  They didn't jump ship & leave Boston once they got an opportunity. 

And as others have reiterated in this thread and though out the offseason, when have the Celtics had the money to sign a "big time" free agent?

[BballTim]

And - I should add - there is no end in sight - at least not to my eyes (but please relieve my depression). There do not seem to be any free agents that will want to play here; our best player (Rondo) is likely to be shipped out of town sooner rather than later; and although there are some inspiring center prospects, and Emmanuel Mundiay in the upcoming draft - after Duncan/Oden/Wiggins - I have just completely lost faith that we will ever win a draft lottery.

I'm thrilled with the course this team is taking. What I'm not thrilled about is Marcus Smart. The Celtics need to bottom out and rebuild by trading Rondo. I assure you that no top Free Agent will ever sign with Boston. It makes no sense with the night life and the talent in Miami LA and NYC. Boston has no endorsement opportunities. Zero appeal to players.

  Yes, that's why KG and Ray and PP all bolted in 2010 when they were free agents.

I love how you leave out that they were acquired via trade. Not by free agency. No big name FA has or ever will sign with Boston.

  Yes, they were acquired via trade. I didn't include that because I assumed people knew that. But in 2010 they were all FAs. Big name FAs, in fact. They had all played in Boston. They were all very familiar with the weather in Boston. They were all very familiar with the nightlife in Boston. They were all familiar with what endorsement opportunities were available in Boston. More familiar than most players, in fact. And they *all* signed with Boston that summer. "No big name FA has or ever will sign with Boston" just isn't true.

[Greenbean]

I am deeply disappointed with the way the Celtics' last season, off-season, and the next season, projected based on our players, has shaken out, and seems likely to shake out (as the case may be).

We have five player about the right height to play the point guard position:

Rondo, Smart, Thornton, Bradley and Pressey; they in turn either can't shoot, are too short, can't defend, or can't pass.

We have two players with big salaries who I don't expect to see a lot of playing time: Gerald Wallace and Keith Bogans.

Our starting small forward is basically a synonym for "inconsistent," and our two most exciting young players are both deeply flawed power forwards.

There is not one, single, complete player on the roster: no tall point guards who can defend, score and pass; no wing players who can drive, defend, and shoot, and no power forwards who can hit shots all over the court/are amazingly athletic and can defend. No two way centers. No three and D guys.

There are some bright spots: Green is athletic, Rondo has an amazing mind for the game; Zeller has some post, and pick and roll ability, and Olynyk's jumper is improving. And if James Young can shoot, he has the height to be a real asset at his position. But - realistically - this team can't guard 80% of the teams in the NBA right now, and probably won't be able to score on more than half of them. Next year is going to be very, very painful to watch. And after last year... Ouch.

You talk about our youth as if they're fully developed.  Even a guy like Sullinger is still only 22 years of age, and only has a year and a half under his belt.

No tall point guards on the roster who can defend ?  You have an all star point guard, what's the problem here ?  You just drafted one of the best defending Point Guards in college basketball.  He's 20, btw.

You need to be patient and let the process play out.  The only thing you need to know is this :

Boston's youth:

Smart
Bradley
Olynyk
Sullinger
Young

Boston's picks:

Boston's own picks
Brooklyn's 2016, 2017 (right to swap with Nets), 2018
2015 Clippers First Round Pick
2015 76ers First Round Pick (or two 2nds)
2016 Cavs First Round Pick (Top 10 protected in 16', 17', or 18'. Unprotected in 19')

Boston's expirings:

Joel Anthony
Keith Bogans
Brandon Bass
Marcus Thornton

You're setup to completely overhaul this thing and get back to the playoffs in a hurry.  Have some patience and let it unfold.  No end in sight ?  Please.  Gimme a break.

Really, when do you see the end? Do you see the end next year? Will that be the year we draft the franchise savior? No? How about 2016? No end in sight means - literally - what it says. I do not see a route for the Celtics to get back into contention. Even if we mortgage all of these assets for Love; is there a demonstrable difference, besides R. Rondo, in Boston's surrounding Roster and Minnesota's? Granter Rubio is a bit of a turd - but Pekovic is better than any center or forward on our roster. Does Love, Rondo, Olynyk, Green and Avery Bradley win you the EC?

No. Way.

There are literally five teams who are better, maybe more.

There is no end in sight. You know someone is pulling your chain when they tell you to trust in the fearless leader. Is Danny Ainge a genius? No! He has clearly whiffed on a number of picks. ...no one is perfect, and I don't blame him for trying - but betting on a "pick" is betting on some 19 year old kid. Why would a free agent want to play here? To experience the simmering tension of Gerald Wallace not getting playing time? To watch Olynyk get smoked on defense? To wonder which Jeff Green is going to show up on any given night?

Look - our best player - and it's not close, Rondo - is flawed. He is simply not a good enough shooter. He is a sub-30% 3p shooter, and has never - NEVER - shot better than 70% from the FT line, league AVERAGE is 75%+. Anyway - his greatest strengths are minimized with this team, as we are not really that athletic, and aren't great shooters.

Where is this end in sight? You tell me. But don't resort to that condescending "we have a super hero" garbage argument. Rah rah. I'm a fan also - that's why I care about it. If we have a super hero, tell me why he's a super hero. What has Brad Stevens done in the NBA again that leads you to feel so confident in him?

This is silly. Youre saying there is no way the celtics ever contend again?

Teams will eventually have to rebuild and it can take time. The most you can ask for right now is for the team to at least maintain roster and financial flexibility.

This isnt a mismanaged team and the ownership group is great. Theyll be fine.

[Sketch5]

I agree with the OP.

So far, this offseason has been for the birds as literally every team in the NBA has improved except for the Celtics.

I am also noticing that many people are accepting mediocrity.

It's as if it should be expected and applauded that the team is going to suck for 2-3 years.

I think Boston is becoming a soft sports town.

Maybe it was the "decade of champions" from 2001-13, but it seems like now there's as much buzz about "development" and "patience" as there is about winning.

I don't get it

I don't think people are excepting mediocrity. I think most people just get it, and are realistic. It takes two teams to make a trade happen. DA been busting, trying to get Love, but Minny wont bite, yet... DA has made moves that moves us forward. Small moves, but moves that will help sooner than later.

I think people on this site are smart enough to know what it's going to take to get good again. We are the Lakers(thank the Gods) with the stars and nice weather to attract hi level FA's. So we have to work for it. We have to be bad, for a little while, develop the assets, and hope the stars line up. It wont come easy, and most likely wont come fast.

While yes, I've admitted that it was fun to root for a bad team, I'm also watching the young guys, seeing when they are getting better, seeing their potential. Thats still fun. As much fun as winning it all? No, but when I know this is just what you have to do to get better, it's easier to watch the games. Even though the team is bad, I could still see good basketball that Stevens was trying to get the team to play. And thats exciting.

Maybe your confusing people being okay with mediocrity with people seeing the glass half full and not half empty.

[Greenbean]

I agree with the OP.

So far, this offseason has been for the birds as literally every team in the NBA has improved except for the Celtics.

I am also noticing that many people are accepting mediocrity.

It's as if it should be expected and applauded that the team is going to suck for 2-3 years.

I think Boston is becoming a soft sports town.

Maybe it was the "decade of champions" from 2001-13, but it seems like now there's as much buzz about "development" and "patience" as there is about winning.

I don't get it

The only sad thing thAt has come out of the last 10 years is that fans around here are spoiled.

If i enjoy watching young players develop am I a soft fan? Because I can patiently enjoy watching the team go from young and promising to championship contender even if it takes 5 years?

Thats ridiculous.

[Quetzalcoatl]

It's really annoying to see people demand we trade all our good assets for short term satisfaction and then say things like "we went so long between championships, why are we content to stay bad?"  Do you remember the kinds of moves the Celtics were making from 1990-Danny?

Moves like:

Billups for Kenny Anderson
Joe Johnson and a 1st for Rodney Rodgers and Tony Delk
Ainge's first big move - Walker for Raef/Welsch/Mills/1st

Yeah, why don't we trade our assets for cap killing contracts and a mid round flame out? 

This current rebuild is of course only the second most annoying Ainge critique, after people killing Danny for drafting Fab Melo.   For reference, the next picks were John Jenkins, Jared Cunningham, Tony Wroten, Miles Plumlee, Tony Wroten, Arnett Moultree, Perry Jones III, Marquis Teague (the Nets one), Jeffery Taylor, Tomas Satoransky, Bernard James and finally Jae Crowder at pick 34, a dozen picks later.  I mean come on.  Miles P is okay too, but again, come on.

[Celtics4ever]

I am deeply disappointed with the way the Celtics' last season, off-season, and the next season, projected based on our players, has shaken out, and seems likely to shake out (as the case may be).

We have five player about the right height to play the point guard position:

Rondo, Smart, Thornton, Bradley and Pressey; they in turn either can't shoot, are too short, can't defend, or can't pass.

You lose a lot of credibility when you say that Pressey can't pass.   He can and quite well.  Bradley and Smart can d it up.   I agree with Rondo and Smart not being able to shoot and Bradley not able to pass the ball.  I do not know Thornton but he is an expiring contract- SEE BELOW.

We have two players with big salaries who I don't expect to see a lot of playing time: Gerald Wallace and Keith Bogans.

Expiring contracts both of them done after this year.   We will have some serious cap space after this year.  Expiring contracts are nice at the trade deadline.

Our starting small forward is basically a synonym for "inconsistent," and our two most exciting young players are both deeply flawed power forwards.

Ainge gets guys who can ball rather than classic position guys.   Powe and Davis were earlier examples of this type of guy.   Undersize without true positions but could play on the court albeit flawed.  Oly and Sully are the same type of player.  Oly at least has some NBA size evin with his T-Rex Arms.

There is not one, single, complete player on the roster: no tall point guards who can defend, score and pass; no wing players who can drive, defend, and shoot, and no power forwards who can hit shots all over the court/are amazingly athletic and can defend. No two way centers. No three and D guys

.

We have not had a top three draft pick since Ron Mercer and we blew that one.  Where we have been picking you do not get two way superstars.

There are some bright spots: Green is athletic, Rondo has an amazing mind for the game; Zeller has some post, and pick and roll ability, and Olynyk's jumper is improving. And if James Young can shoot, he has the height to be a real asset at his position. But - realistically - this team can't guard 80% of the teams in the NBA right now, and probably won't be able to score on more than half of them. Next year is going to be very, very painful to watch. And after last year... Ouch.

We are still in tank mode with this roster if you didn't know.   Watch the kids grow and focus on the youth development but don't get too attached as they may be moved for true assets.   I like watching players develop, it is not as good as contending but it is not painful as long as you have low expectations for the season.

I don't see us making the playoffs like some here.   I think we will be in the lotto again.  I see us winning 32 games next year with 36 being the high mark.   

[Kuberski33]

As a long time Celtics fan (40+ years) the only thing I can say to those who are frustrated - is don't worry, it's going to get worse before it gets better.  As currently constituted this team is on target for once again winning less than 30 games.  Patience is going to be required because it's going to take awhile.  I get the feeling that many think it's just going to be a couple of years.  It may well be longer than that.

[Chief Macho]

I get both sides of this discussion.    I understand the way the NBA works and it's frustratingly slow roster makeover rules.   And I get the idea of being patient.    Like someone else said,  the thing I dislike the most is that this isn't a  team with a direction other than to collect what the NBA calls assets.  It's certainly not about winning next season and it's not really about making a basketball team that makes any basketball sense.  It's just a collection of dudes waiting to get pawned off for better players  or more cap room.   It has very little feeling of actually trying to compete.

[VitorSullyandKOFan]

We have to be patient we shouldn't expect Danny to turn this thing around in just 1 year. I expect another frustrating season and possibly land a top 5 pick then by the 2015 summer we will start to see the big and the roster will start to take the steps forward to be a contender either by free agency or trades. Just be patient with the rebuilding process it will be hard but when we are a contender again we will see that taking time with the rebuild was a good idea becuase it allowed us to build a strong for years to come.

[Future Celtics Owner]

I actually really enjoy the rebuilding process...always have. And I do not know of any team that has the long term health of the celtics. Its only been one year.

I do too as long as there is a plan.  I like seeing the young guys develop.

Theres just something about the process. I think at first I wanted a winner....but long time ago I learned to like the youth movement/ rebuilding. Then I grew to love it. TP