Rumor: Rondo wants max extension

[Eddie20]

Eddie20 really must have a hard-on for Rondo. Every post he makes are for trading/disparaging Rondo

I have a "hard-on for Rondo"? Such an ironic statement considering who I'm having dialogue with on this thread. TP for the unintentional laugh!

Comparing him to Lever is "disparaging"?

[BballTim]

In the fine company of Tim, one of the few people who "gets" the utter greatness of Rondo.

  No, there are many more people who get things than you realize.

I'm actually not mad, I sometimes laugh though at the great lengths you go to in order to defend him. Odd really, but to each his own.

  I'm sure it seems that way when you fill your posts with claims that you have no idea whether or not they're accurate. That seems easier from my viewpoint as well.

Let me ask you this, since you watched Lever play and still consider Rondo a better shooter, 4Q of a game who would you rather be shooting open perimeter shots? Answer that one honestly. Forget all the metrics and use your common sense. I still have only seen two PG's be completely ignored and dared to shoot in the Finals. Avery Johnson vs the Knicks and Rondo vs the Lakers.

  Why don't you start telling me all about how closely guarded Lever was in the Finals? And why should we "forget all the metrics"? Why don't you just explain them? Lever was playing at a pace about 20% higher than Rondo during his career. That means his team is taking more shots early in the shot clock before the defenses are set, and taking fewer of the late in the clock shots which are much harder to make. How, with that advantage, did Lever shoot significantly worse than Rondo? Why was such a poor shooter compared to his contemporaries? You seem to be quite aware of Rondo's shooting woes. I'd guess that your knowledge of Lever's shooting boils down to "he's not Rondo so he must be better".

To reiterate, I'm not saying Lever is better. I'm saying they're on equal ground. Rondo is one hell of a playmaker, but he's a horrid shooter. It's a shortlist of PG's that he shoots better than.

  This isn't really the case. When you compare Rondo's shooting to that of other top point guards it's pretty poor. When you compare him to run-of-the-mill point guards he's not that bad. You do a great job of summarizing the nonsense you hear in some of these threads but the reality is teams don't ignore Rondo on defense, plenty of players take plenty of wide open jumpers every game and they miss them on a regular basis.

Shooting/Scoring
Lever

Defense
Tied

Playmaking
Rondo

Rebounding
Lever

  Lever wasn't really a better shooter/scorer. He was a less efficient shooter/scorer who just shot the ball a little more than Rondo. Trying to dismiss the clear and obvious stats by referring to them as "formulas" or "metrics" is just nonsense.

  Likewise, Rondo's been on 4 all-defense teams (first team twice) and finished top 5 in DPOY voting twice. Lever was 2nd team all-defense once (when he was older than Rondo is). If those accomplishments were reversed and I called their defense even you might have a stroke while you were typing your reply.

  You're right about the rest though.

[Smokeeye123]

Rondo will be gone before Christmas. Either to the Pacers, Rockets, Grizzlies, Kings, or Mavs.

[D.o.s.]

Rondo will be gone before Christmas. Either to the Pacers, Rockets, Grizzlies, Kings, or Mavs.

What's your reasoning? How do the trade packages work? Is this just a list of teams you think he would fit well on, or is this actually a grounded idea?

[Who]

I don't think Rondo will be moved. I think the window for trading Rondo has passed.

I don't think rebuilding / midlevel teams will be willing to part with major assets to get Rondo with Rondo heading into free agency next summer. Too high a likelihood of Rondo leaving for nothing in return to part with big time assets. Top level teams can be more confident of Rondo re-signing there next summer but hardly any of them will be willing to part with enough assets to make it worthwhile for Ainge. Limited market place.

[Mazingerz]

Eddie20 really must have a hard-on for Rondo. Every post he makes are for trading/disparaging Rondo

I have a "hard-on for Rondo"? Such an ironic statement considering who I'm having dialogue with on this thread. TP for the unintentional laugh!

Comparing him to Lever is "disparaging"?

Kindly refer to your previous posts in other threads.

[Eddie20]

Eddie20 really must have a hard-on for Rondo. Every post he makes are for trading/disparaging Rondo

I have a "hard-on for Rondo"? Such an ironic statement considering who I'm having dialogue with on this thread. TP for the unintentional laugh!

Comparing him to Lever is "disparaging"?

Kindly refer to your previous posts in other threads.

Kindly show me where. I think you're confusing criticism for disparaging.

He's a top 10 PG
Great playmaker
Can't shoot a lick
Not worth a max contract

[LB3533]

With the current contracts being issued and what looks like a very easily accessible/open check book, good players are recieving salaries more than they are worth.

That being said, current max players, especially the higher caliber max players are essentially under paid.

Based upon the current status of the financial/fiscal NBA environment, Rondo should be getting a max deal offer, whether he wants it or not.

If I was an NBA GM or NBA team owner, and I wanted Rondo for my team, I would offer the max, without hesitation.

Rondo is a type of player who is able to sustain his level of production despite obstacles such as injury recovery, lower experienced/caliber/talented teammates, but when Rondo has the options of more experience/talented/caliber teammates, Rondo is able to increase his production.

Rondo is also able to not merely sustain his level of production, but to also elevate his game when the circumstances elevate, i.e. playoff time.

Regular season: 11/8/5
Playoffs:            14/9/6

Rondo's R.S. & Playoff Per 36's are virtually the same as the above (with rounding up).

[indeedproceed]

With the current contracts being issued and what looks like a very easily accessible/open check book, good players are recieving salaries more than they are worth.

I don't think this is true . I think some role players are getting 'more than they're worth' but they're not the norm. The contracts are larger because the cap is larger, the pie is bigger. A player's worth is most commonly related to his ability to help generate wins. How much is a win worth? That goes back to how much revenue the franchise generates.

But ultimately a contract is reflected to its % of a max contract, and those numbers went up considerably from last year.

[D.o.s.]

With the current contracts being issued and what looks like a very easily accessible/open check book, good players are recieving salaries more than they are worth.

That being said, current max players, especially the higher caliber max players are essentially under paid.

Based upon the current status of the financial/fiscal NBA environment, Rondo should be getting a max deal offer, whether he wants it or not.

If I was an NBA GM or NBA team owner, and I wanted Rondo for my team, I would offer the max, without hesitation.

Rondo is a type of player who is able to sustain his level of production despite obstacles such as injury recovery, lower experienced/caliber/talented teammates, but when Rondo has the options of more experience/talented/caliber teammates, Rondo is able to increase his production.

Rondo is also able to not merely sustain his level of production, but to also elevate his game when the circumstances elevate, i.e. playoff time.

Regular season: 11/8/5
Playoffs:            14/9/6

Rondo's R.S. & Playoff Per 36's are virtually the same as the above (with rounding up).

I'm not sure that 'elevates his game' is correct. Rondo's per 36 minutes for the regular season and the playoffs are as follows for his career:

regular season: 12-9-5
Playoffs: 13.6-8.5-6

One big difference between the normal stats is that he's averaged 38 MPG in the playoffs and 33 MPG in the regular season, which is part of the reason that the Playoff Rondo phenomenon is, IMO, a combination of the fact that he's playing more minutes and the eye test says he's playing harder, just like the eye test says he phones it in or whatever during the regular season.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

Basically, I think Rondo looks like he tries harder when the games are 'important', and he also happens to play more minutes during 'important' games. Dude's a hell of a player, but his proverbial on/off effort switch seems kind of like trying to prove whether or not the Hot Hand is real -- which is to say, there's evidence both ways, so it's hard to say with certainty.

Which makes it more complicated, because we've all seen players who were absolutely on fire, and we've all seen Rondo look like he's playing on the next level in the playoffs.

[LB3533]

Production against playoff calibur teams is different than the production averaged out over the regular season (against nonplayoff teams mixed in).

Yes, while Rondo's average production numbers between playoffs and regular season virtually mirror one another....they are not quite exactly the same.

Generally speaking, most playoff teams are "better" teams with "better" talent players.

And most playoff teams are playing at a higher energy level than they were playing at during the regular season....again, in general.

[D.o.s.]

You could, if you wanted, go through and exhaustively look at the last three or so playoff runs from the C's 2010-2012 (around the time Rondo came into his own as a star in his own right), and eliminate the generalities from your point. I don't blame you for not doing so, because it's an effort, though.


You could also go through the last regular seasons from the same time and find out which teams the C's played over that span that were playoff teams, and see how Rondo did against Playoff Caliber opponents -- from both Conferences, no less, which would give you a better idea of how Rondo fares against the best talent in the NBA, rather than the Best in the East (bolstered by some Leastern Conference bottom of the bracket squads that we played when the team was winning games, no less).

If anyone wants to do that, you can find all the pertinent data here:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/

[BballTim]

With the current contracts being issued and what looks like a very easily accessible/open check book, good players are recieving salaries more than they are worth.

That being said, current max players, especially the higher caliber max players are essentially under paid.

Based upon the current status of the financial/fiscal NBA environment, Rondo should be getting a max deal offer, whether he wants it or not.

If I was an NBA GM or NBA team owner, and I wanted Rondo for my team, I would offer the max, without hesitation.

Rondo is a type of player who is able to sustain his level of production despite obstacles such as injury recovery, lower experienced/caliber/talented teammates, but when Rondo has the options of more experience/talented/caliber teammates, Rondo is able to increase his production.

Rondo is also able to not merely sustain his level of production, but to also elevate his game when the circumstances elevate, i.e. playoff time.

Regular season: 11/8/5
Playoffs:            14/9/6

Rondo's R.S. & Playoff Per 36's are virtually the same as the above (with rounding up).

I'm not sure that 'elevates his game' is correct. Rondo's per 36 minutes for the regular season and the playoffs are as follows for his career:

regular season: 12-9-5
Playoffs: 13.6-8.5-6

One big difference between the normal stats is that he's averaged 38 MPG in the playoffs and 33 MPG in the regular season, which is part of the reason that the Playoff Rondo phenomenon is, IMO, a combination of the fact that he's playing more minutes and the eye test says he's playing harder, just like the eye test says he phones it in or whatever during the regular season.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

Basically, I think Rondo looks like he tries harder when the games are 'important', and he also happens to play more minutes during 'important' games. Dude's a hell of a player, but his proverbial on/off effort switch seems kind of like trying to prove whether or not the Hot Hand is real -- which is to say, there's evidence both ways, so it's hard to say with certainty.

Which makes it more complicated, because we've all seen players who were absolutely on fire, and we've all seen Rondo look like he's playing on the next level in the playoffs.

  There's a few things you have to keep in mind. Rondo's generally "looked" like he was playing at a higher level from 2009-2012 in the playoffs. Over that time we played 9 series, 7 of which were against top 7 defenses including 5 against top 5 defenses. Putting up the same numbers (let alone better ones) would be somewhat impressive. Rondo's numbers went up a little in the playoffs, but all three of PP/KG/RA had worse numbers in the playoffs than the regular season. That's generally the norm for top players that are regularly in the playoffs.

  You'd also have to consider that he had some injuries that he played through in the playoffs, notably his back in 2010 and his elbow in 2011. In the 2009 playoffs he went for 17/10/10. In 2010 before his back issues (the first 14 games) he went for 18/7/11. In 2010 before the elbow he went for 17/5/11. In 2012 he went for 17/7/12. He was also one of the best defensive guards in those playoffs. I think by most measures that would qualify as "stepping up".

[D.o.s.]

Sure -- now comes the waiting, as we wait to see if his play over those years was a measurement of a peak, or of a step to something greater.

[BballTim]

Sure -- now comes the waiting, as we wait to see if his play over those years was a measurement of a peak, or of a step to something greater.

  True, but that was Rondo from age 22-25. If you look at the playoff primes of most of the better pgs historically they usually start a in the 25-28 range.