Why does this surprise any of you? The awesome thing is that the usual suspects around here want to pay a ROLE PLAYER like Rondo, max dollars. He is severely overrated and Ainge needs to do the right thing now and trade him for whatever value the Celtics can get.
The ray of sunshine has returned 
I mean so many role players get triple doubles more often than most other players in the NBA, right?
He's the Fat Lever of our generation.
In 11 NBA seasons Lever averaged:
13.9 ppg
6.0 rpg
6.2 apg
2.0 spg
2.0 tov
44.7 fg
77.1 ft
31.7 mpg
43 Triple Doubles
In 8 NBA seasons Rondo has averaged:
11.1 ppg
4.6 rpg
8.4 apg
1.9 spg
2.8 tov
47.5 fg
62.1 ft
33.0 mpg
18 Triple Doubles
Not sure if you're familiar with basketball in the 80s or Lever in particular, but the main thing he has in common with Rondo is they both rebounded well. First of all, when you're comparing Lever's stats to Rondo keep in mind Lever's teams generally averaged 115-120 ppg while Rondo's averaged in the low-mid 90s, so Rondo' probably scoring as much if not more of his team's points (percentage-wise) as Lever. Fat's assist percentage was never as high as 30%, and his career average wouldn't make the top 30 last year, so he scores like Rondo, rebounds like Rondo, but gets assists like a good small forward.
Do you really believe some of the nonsense you write?
The numbers I provided are Lever's career averages. This means that the last couple of seasons, as his carer waned, negatively influenced his totals. In his 4 prime seasons (86-90), he scored 18.9, 18.9, 19.8, and 18.3, rebounded at 8.9, 8.1, 9.3, and 9.3, and had assist putouts of 8.0, 7.8, 7.9, and 7.9. So if Lever assists like a good SF then the Rondo antagonist could easily say that Rondo shoots FT's like a bad NBA center.
Yes, Rondo shoots free throws poorly. But Lever didn't get a ton of assists considering the number of points his team scored. In Lever's highest assist year he got 9 a game but his team made over 47 baskets a game, Rondo's best he got 12 apg out of less than 36 baskets a game. It's not close to being close. It's also worth pointing out that Lever didn't play a ton during those "waning seasons", and that your selection of Lever's prime started when he was about the age Rondo was last year, and he was older when he entered the league as well.
It makes me think you didn't watch much 80's basketball when a comparison to Lever somehow is a negative. Lever played in 2 all-star games (in a conference with Magic and Stockton) and was voted all-NBA 2nd team once (in an era which featured Magic, Stockton, Jordan, Moncrief, Drexler, and Thomas at guard). Rondo's played in 4 all-star games and was voted all-NBA 3rd team once.
Lever was a better shooter and scorer. Rondo the better playmaker. Both rebounded the ball well and played the passing lanes well (albeit they both gambled a little too much). Similar sized players with comparable numbers.
Rondo made 4 all-star games and was 3rd team all-nba once before he was injured, and he was younger than Lever was when he made his first all-star team at the time. In terms of stature as players Rondo's well above Lever. Also, Lever wasn't that much better a scorer when you consider that his teams scored about 20% more than Rondo's. Oh, and he wasn't really a better shooter. He had a lower fg%, eFG% and TS% than Rondo.
I don't think you realize exactly how those Moe teams operated. Yes, they were running and gunning. Yes, Lever was the PG. However, English had the ball in his hands the majority of the time. Lever didn't have the ball nearly as much as Rondo did, which would be an indication as to why Lever committed far less turnovers . Regardless, I will grant you that Rondo is the better playmaker.
This was pretty meaningful. You claim that I don't realize how those Moe teams operate, without pointing out anything I said that points to that, then you agree with what I said to boot. There's an important element to this type of claim that you're not grasping.
And this is why research has to be done when you start throwing out statements such as
It's also worth pointing out that Lever didn't play a ton during those "waning seasons"
Lever played 752 games and those lean years consisted of 106 games. So the 106 games might not be considered much, but based on the amount of games he played those years reduced his career averages considerably.
First of all I'm fairly confident that we've established that you're near the top of the class in not doing research on what you're claiming. As to this particular point, you seem to have noticed that Lever's last few years would skew his numbers. You didn't seem to notice things that break the other way, such as Lever joining the league at an older age than Rondo or fact that Lever's best years came when he was Rondo's age (last year) or older. Also, there's an issue with either your "research" or, more likely, your math skills. I realized how many games he played later in his career when I made my claim, only I understood what that meant. Lever played a little under 15% of his time in those years. That means it drags his average down by a little under 15% of the *difference* between those years and his other years. In other words, less than a point a game and smaller changes to his boards and assists.
No, Lever was a better shooter than Rondo. You can use whatever formula you want in order to fit your argument, but Rondo is a bad shooter. Again, Lever was a better shooter than Rondo and to say otherwise makes me think you didn't watch Lever much, if at all.
The "formula" that I'm using is fg%, efg%, and ts%. Complicated, I know, but it is what it is. Lever was a poor shooter. His 2 point fg% is significantly lower than Rondo's despite the fact that the league average for such shots was higher then than it is now. I checked all the players who averaged 6+ assists from his rookie year to the end of his prime to get somewhat similar players. There were 27 or so, and he was 23rd or 24th in fg%. He wasn't in the top 20 in any of fg%, efg% or ts%, so pretty much in the bottom 25%. About what I expected.
Rondo played in 4 all-star teams and Lever in 2 all-star teams. Lever also played in a conference with PG's Magic and Stockton. Would have been great to have seen how many all-star games Rondo would've been named to had he played in that era. Lever was one of the most underrated players of all time, which is backed up by how little you think of him. The guy had 43 triple doubles to Rondo's 18 yet you speak of him as if we were discussing John Bagley.
I didn't compare him to Bagley. Don't get so upset when people add a little reality to your anti-Rondo rants. And I'll explain the same thing I did in our last conversation, which you still don't seem to get. You're comparing entire careers of other players to half of Rondo's. If you look at Rondo's triple double total when he hurt his knee he was well ahead of Lever. Far enough ahead that even though (due to injury) Rondo's only had about 1 triple double in the last season and a half, he's *still* had about as many as Lever had at the age Rondo is. Mind you, this is with Lever on teams that averaged about 20% more points a game than Rondo's team.
Topic: Rumor: Rondo wants max extension (Read 76009 times)