Baxter Holmes: Celtics not in top-3 for Love

[Sixth Man]

It is poker, we just have to call them and see if they fold to our hand.

Why would a poker player fold his hand after just being called???

It happens when they have nothing.

Technically its never correct to do because the board (if we're talking hold 'em) might be their opponents hand as well.

Personally I recall a time I called my friends bluff with just Jack high and that's all he had too, he was incredulous that I called his bluff with nothing (I think 2 or 3 overs were on the board). He mucked his cards before I flipped my hand over, but we play cards speak so it didn't matter as we still could separate out his cards easily to show his hand was also a jack high.

Thanks, you provided my answer for me.  No offense, but your friend is a poor poker player, no matter which game you were playing...

[jambr380]

I gotta say, I'm somewhat reluctantly on board with getting Love - I'm not a big fan of his but at least it'd be a clear step forward and would make the team better to watch - but if it takes 4 firsts and Sully/Oly, I'm going to be irritated. 

That's definitely too much if he won't sign an extension, even if he agrees to pick up his option year, and probably too much for me even if he does extend.  Carmelo and Howard didn't carry that kind of price tag, and I think they both were better at the time than Love is now.

Yeah, in this new CBA I thought firsts were supposed to be golden, now they are just being tossed around as if they are almost a burden to take on. Four firsts, including the two this year and the two future BKN ones is way too steep. I would not be happy with that deal. I am barely on board with the two this year and a future Clips/Cs (not 2017) pick - Love is very good, but this would seem like one of the biggest hauls in the history of the NBA. I really hope Ford is wrong.

[Sixth Man]

Ford states emphatically that the Celtics have offered 6, 17, Ollie or Sully, two future Brooklyn picks.

No way any other team comes close to matching that offer.

I think it is too much, like most of you do.

Wolves are just trying to increase the offer.  I wish Danny would just withdraw it.

Interesting that its two Brooklyn picks.   I would have reservation there.  Much rather try to move the Clippers pick or one of our own along with 6 & 17.

The reason to offer the Brooklyn picks is probably to hedge against Love/Rondo leaving.

Also Minnesota might value them higher than Boston's if they project Boston's picks to the bottom third of the draft with Love in the eastern conference.

Oh, if I was Minnesota I would definitely be valuing them higher than the Boston picks given the nature of Brooklyn's organization right now.    The Clippers pick would almost be a non consideration if I was Minn. 

Just looking at things from Boston's angle.

There was a story a day or two ago about Prokhorov seeking a buyer for the Nets.  Don't know if there is truth to that, but I would think that Danny would want to hang onto those picks we received from them.

[GreenWarrior]

I gotta say, I'm somewhat reluctantly on board with getting Love - I'm not a big fan of his but at least it'd be a clear step forward and would make the team better to watch - but if it takes 4 firsts and Sully/Oly, I'm going to be irritated. 

That's definitely too much if he won't sign an extension, even if he agrees to pick up his option year, and probably too much for me even if he does extend.  Carmelo and Howard didn't carry that kind of price tag, and I think they both were better at the time than Love is now.

I agree 4 is too much. i'm probably the only one who thinks our 6 and a mix of whatever players they want(minus rondo) should be enough.

however, I realize Minn. will probably want more. so i'd be willing to throw in more picks but I'm not willing to give up the Brooklyn picks.

if we can get Love get him. but in no way am I giving up the house.

[Fafnir]

It is poker, we just have to call them and see if they fold to our hand.

Why would a poker player fold his hand after just being called???

It happens when they have nothing.

Technically its never correct to do because the board (if we're talking hold 'em) might be their opponents hand as well.

Personally I recall a time I called my friends bluff with just Jack high and that's all he had too, he was incredulous that I called his bluff with nothing (I think 2 or 3 overs were on the board). He mucked his cards before I flipped my hand over, but we play cards speak so it didn't matter as we still could separate out his cards easily to show his hand was also a jack high.

Thanks, you provided my answer for me.  No offense, but your friend is a poor poker player, no matter which game you were playing...

Eh, depends on how much you value specific hand information and the odds you place on a player also playing the board. I don't think mucking your cards after a bluff is called is ridiculous it happens fairly frequently.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Sully + 4 firsts seems like a really desperate move and Danny Ainge is not a desperate guy.  I am dubious that we deal for Love if it costs that much.  Let Minny fall apart if they want to be stubborn.

As a little pallate cleanser, here is an LA Blog's take on Love coming to Boston: http://www.lakersnation.com/nba-rumors-flip-saunders-believes-boston-presents-best-deal-for-kevin-love/2014/06/18/

It would be bad enough if Love was to end up somewhere else, but going to the Celtics would present the biggest stomach punch possible to Lakers fans hoping to see Love in purple and gold.

[Celtics4ever]

Why would a poker player fold his hand after just being called???

I did it all the times to guys in the ARMY.   A like of guys watch poker and think they can play it.  Spank them early and never let them know when you bluffing and you can break an amatuer easy.  A good player would never fall for it but the beauty of cards is that everyone thinks they are good and you can fleece them easy a few times before they realize they are out of their league and refuse to play with you.

[Sixth Man]

It is poker, we just have to call them and see if they fold to our hand.

Why would a poker player fold his hand after just being called???

It happens when they have nothing.

Technically its never correct to do because the board (if we're talking hold 'em) might be their opponents hand as well.

Personally I recall a time I called my friends bluff with just Jack high and that's all he had too, he was incredulous that I called his bluff with nothing (I think 2 or 3 overs were on the board). He mucked his cards before I flipped my hand over, but we play cards speak so it didn't matter as we still could separate out his cards easily to show his hand was also a jack high.

Thanks, you provided my answer for me.  No offense, but your friend is a poor poker player, no matter which game you were playing...

Eh, depends on how much you value specific hand information and the odds you place on a player also playing the board. I don't think mucking your cards after a bluff is called is ridiculous it happens fairly frequently.

Yes, you're correct, it does happen in tournaments, and your point about evaluation of whether or not a player is 'playing the board' makes perfect sense.  However, I question how much useful info a player will get from seeing a hand that was mucked directly after a call by an opponent. 

I have to think that most players who muck in that situation do so simply out of personal embarassment...

[Sixth Man]

Sorry, that should be mucked after a bluff was called.

[Celtics4ever]

If I bluffed I never liked to show what beat them and tossed the cards in so people would not get a read on me.   We go more in a direction and we are off topic.


Love is in and Love is out, who knows and more than week to go.   I am off right now in the middle of a move.   But I am scouring the internet for news and it is killing me hearing all these rumors.   Gosh I hate the summer and love the season.

[Sixth Man]

I apologize to everyone for unwittingly hijacking this thread...

[Sketch5]

Would Glen Taylor even consider any Celts deal after the disastrous Garnett trade?  I have to wonder about that.

I think he will consider it, though it sounds like he's not happy about the possibility.

Funny thing is that Glenn Taylor is the one who demanded KG be traded as he wasn't willing to extend KG another mega-contract for a lottery team.

True, they didn't have to deal with Boston, could have moved him some wheres else. Not Boston's fault they couldn't wait for Jefferson to get good and shipped him out a year too soon.

They also could be getting a better package this time around for Love.

People don't want to give up the farm for Love, which makes sense, but it's going to come down to either players or picks to make the numbers work. We don't know were some of these picks are going to land. There is not nothing saying that the Nets picks will be lottery picks. So it's either going to be multiple players and a couple picks. or a player and multiple picks.

DA wont over pay too much, maybe a little, but not 9 picks. Even at four picks we still have 5 more first rounders to play with. Could use 2-3 for an other player/s and 2-3 for or selves. With Love we should be in the playoffs almost every year out side of injury for the next 8 to 10 years. So we don't need a bunch of rookies the first 5 years of him coming over. So all these picks we have through 2018 are up for grabs. We have to keep some for the rules, but only a few. Just try to keep on or two of the Nets picks and it should be all good.

Sully
2014 6th
Our 2015th (clips pic should be worse)
Our 2016th top 3 protected
Net's 2018th

This keeps some of our key players here for trade or to keep.

That means we still have picks in 2014,15,16,17,18. I think we hold onto the nets 2016, and our swap in 2017. The Nets could get some thing together in 17/18 and make the playoffs.

If 2016 and 17 become good young picks, we've started the rebuild while being in the playoffs. Which thats pretty nice.

So you can see that giving up a player and  4 picks isn't quite the farm. We still have plenty to work with.

[KamikazeK]

Personally I do not want to give up the Nets 2018 pick. That is too much for me. Any pick besides that one IMO.

[Celtics4ever]

I apologize to everyone for unwittingly hijacking this thread...

I am guilty of this as well.  Sorry All, my bad.

[Afam]

So apparently according to Footey post, the offer is sully, 6th, 7th and two future Nets pick ? .