Stephen A Smith: Love not liked by Saunders, Minny FO and Minny Players

[GreenWarrior]

Not surprised, he is their best player but can't be their leader
not a warrior and never will be

Anyone else remember when Pierce "couldn't be a leader"?



How did that work out?

Pierce was a leader and the captain

Circa....2005-2006-ish, there were serious question marks about Pierce's leadership abilities and how far the team could go with him at the helm.

It seems silly now that think that but it was very different back then.

Yup. Paul Pierce was, for all intents and purposes, an angrier Carmelo Anthony before KG and Ray showed up.

I disagree with this but don't dismiss that that's how he was perceived. I just think a lot of times what pierce did and others that have had outbursts like that gets looked at as the player is a bad seed but in reality these players are just wanting to win.

i'd probably respect Anthony a lot more if he did have some sort of outburst.

[D.o.s.]

Rare is the player who can lose and be called a leader.

And a lot of this labeling came from his actions in the playoffs.

... Which would be why Nick hadn't heard anything about Kevin Love's leadership. 

I disagree with this but don't dismiss that that's how he was perceived. I just think a lot of times what pierce did and others that have had outbursts like that gets looked at as the player is a bad seed but in reality these players are just wanting to win.

i'd probably respect Anthony a lot more if he did have some sort of outburst.

I'd be willing to bet that you'd just call him an entitled whiner. 

[indeedproceed]

Not surprised, he is their best player but can't be their leader
not a warrior and never will be

Anyone else remember when Pierce "couldn't be a leader"?



How did that work out?

We shouldn't lose sight of how lucky we were. For 60-70% of teams, when Pierce starts pulling that act, management's only move is to trade him, or attempt to keep him but not have the creativity or assets to pull it off, and lose him for nothing.

Praise Danny.

[bucknersrevenge]

^
Right -- LeBron's just the most recent example.

Question: How is what Kevin Love doing any different than what LeBron did in 2010 -- ignoring the well-intentioned but tonally misguided spectacle of The Decision?

He's told management he's leaving instead of just telling them to put a winner around him and then bolting.

And to remove "the Decision" is to ignore a very large part of what happened.

Gotta disagree with that -- the fallout on our end (media/fans/commentary) from The Decision was huge, but the fundamental scenario of it was not: Star player tries to go the distance as the best player, leaves to play with other star players instead.

I also believe that Cleveland would've held onto the idea they could get James to resign even if he'd gone to them and said "trade me."

The fundamental scenario WAS "The Decision" and everything that was involved. Minimizing it to suit an argument doesn't work.

[D.o.s.]

The fundamental scenario was LeBron's impending free agency, something that was set in place when 'the decision' was still in lowercase

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5359255

[bucknersrevenge]

^
Right -- LeBron's just the most recent example.

Question: How is what Kevin Love doing any different than what LeBron did in 2010 -- ignoring the well-intentioned but tonally misguided spectacle of The Decision?

He's told management he's leaving instead of just telling them to put a winner around him and then bolting.

And to remove "the Decision" is to ignore a very large part of what happened.

Gotta disagree with that -- the fallout on our end (media/fans/commentary) from The Decision was huge, but the fundamental scenario of it was not: Star player tries to go the distance as the best player, leaves to play with other star players instead.

I also believe that Cleveland would've held onto the idea they could get James to resign even if he'd gone to them and said "trade me."

I don't get your disagreement, the reason LeBron was vilified wasn't the act of leaving. Other players have done that, Bosh did that, Shaq, Barkley, etc, etc. Heck Kobe did it before backing off via requesting a trade on national radio!

The difference was "The Decision", any analysis that chooses to ignore that is missing the forest for the trees.

I think you're missing some of the nuance -- no one in the history of the game, arguably, 'should have done more' than LeBron James in Cleveland. The Decision set the tone deaf nature of the discourse around him, for sure, but there's no way he was escaping the same kind of criticism he's faced in this thread, even without it.

The only thing The Decision did was make the chorus all consuming.

But wasn't part of the issue even before The Decision that he had just quit the first time in Cleveland against Boston in the ECFs? So now he planned to leave Cleveland to go become in all effects, a "ringer" in Miami. Oh but first he had to string Cleveland along and then break the heart of the city he grew up in on national television at the end of an hour long ESPN Special that spent the first 50 minutes of it recapping the "greatness that is he".

[2short]

Question: How is what Kevin Love doing any different than what LeBron did in 2010 -- ignoring the well-intentioned but tonally misguided spectacle of The Decision?

Lebron had just decided to leave a team that lost in the eastern conference finals and a 50+ win team.

and made a spectacle of it in the process.

no ones blaming him for wanting out of Cleveland because it's Cleveland. their chances of improving the team much more weren't that good. much like Minn.

Lebron was willing to take less money to go to Miami. but not in Cleveland - a team that just lost in the eastern conference finals and a 50+ win team. seems to me they could have just used some tweeking and probably could have if he had taken less money.

I liken the Cleveland/Boston rivalry to that of Chi/Det in the 90's. Cleveland needed to endure the losing and go through the growing pains to take that next step. but Lebron took the easy way out and comes off looking gutless.

tp green warrior!
very well put

[D.o.s.]

So, Faf, do you still think the only reason LeBron was vilified was because of The Decision? 

[nickagneta]

This whole thread has seemed to focus more on Love's need to win and giving him excuses because Minny didn't put people around him, or the Minny management suck or a number of other things. But what SAS said was they didn't like him.

What if the reason they don't like him is because he has a huge ego, thinks he is never the one doing anything wrong is is just a dirtbag?

People are jumping to all sorts of conclusions hear based on his game but what if Love is just a nasty ass person to be around and that's why people don't like him. It would explain some things as to why that team with that talent last year didn't gel. And maybe explain the poor performance in other years.

I'm not saying that is the case but its something that many here are just not taking into consideration. If he is just a dink, would you still want him on the Celtics being a cancer here rather than Minnesota?

[MBunge]

What if the reason they don't like him is because he has a huge ego, thinks he is never the one doing anything wrong is is just a dirtbag?

That's possible but you'd think there would have been more rumblings of that before Love told them he wanted out.  I know Minneapolis/St. Paul isn't New York or Boston but it's hard to believe the media there would be so out to lunch/on the take as to miss or cover up a "his teammates hate Love" story.

Mike

[LooseCannon]

People are jumping to all sorts of conclusions hear based on his game but what if Love is just a nasty ass person to be around and that's why people don't like him. It would explain some things as to why that team with that talent last year didn't gel. And maybe explain the poor performance in other years.

The performance of the Timberwolves over recent years is easily explained by the quality of Love's teammates and doesn't require an interpretation of Love as a team-killing player.

[nickagneta]

People are jumping to all sorts of conclusions hear based on his game but what if Love is just a nasty ass person to be around and that's why people don't like him. It would explain some things as to why that team with that talent last year didn't gel. And maybe explain the poor performance in other years.

The performance of the Timberwolves over recent years is easily explained by the quality of Love's teammates and doesn't require an interpretation of Love as a team-killing player.

Don't necessarily agree. He has to take some if not a good amount of blame too. This could explain why. Last year he had Pekovic, Martin, Rubio, Dieng, and even Brewer who show in spurts that he could be a very good role player. That's decent talent and it couldn't post a winning record.

Still want the C's to trade for him but this thought that he is blameless for his team's won-loss record since being there is, IMHO, just absurd. If you are player on a team you don't just get credit for the wins, you have to own up to the losses too.

[saltlover]

People are jumping to all sorts of conclusions hear based on his game but what if Love is just a nasty ass person to be around and that's why people don't like him. It would explain some things as to why that team with that talent last year didn't gel. And maybe explain the poor performance in other years.

The performance of the Timberwolves over recent years is easily explained by the quality of Love's teammates and doesn't require an interpretation of Love as a team-killing player.

Don't necessarily agree. He has to take some if not a good amount of blame too. This could explain why. Last year he had Pekovic, Martin, Rubio, Dieng, and even Brewer who show in spurts that he could be a very good role player. That's decent talent and it couldn't post a winning record.

Still want the C's to trade for him but this thought that he is blameless for his team's won-loss record since being there is, IMHO, just absurd. If you are player on a team you don't just get credit for the wins, you have to own up to the losses too.

They also had the best point-differential for a team with a losing record, ever.  I know, wins and losses are all that matter, but that team actually played very well together.  Furthermore, if Dieng is that great that it's Love's fault that they didn't have a winning record, he probably should have played more than 13 minutes per game.  Frankly, if one of their 5 best players isn't good enough to see the court for more than 13 minutes per game, and didn't play in a quarter of them, it's probably the case that it isn't actually a very talented team.  And I know he played behind Pekovic, but Pek missed a third of the games this season, so you'd think Dieng could have logged more minutes if he's all that special.

[LooseCannon]

People are jumping to all sorts of conclusions hear based on his game but what if Love is just a nasty ass person to be around and that's why people don't like him. It would explain some things as to why that team with that talent last year didn't gel. And maybe explain the poor performance in other years.

The performance of the Timberwolves over recent years is easily explained by the quality of Love's teammates and doesn't require an interpretation of Love as a team-killing player.

Don't necessarily agree. He has to take some if not a good amount of blame too. This could explain why. Last year he had Pekovic, Martin, Rubio, Dieng, and even Brewer who show in spurts that he could be a very good role player. That's decent talent and it couldn't post a winning record.

Swap Love for Brandon Bass and the Celtics and Wolves probably swap win-loss records.   Minnesota might even fare a bit worse. That's how weak I think Love's teammates are.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

People are jumping to all sorts of conclusions hear based on his game but what if Love is just a nasty ass person to be around and that's why people don't like him. It would explain some things as to why that team with that talent last year didn't gel. And maybe explain the poor performance in other years.

The performance of the Timberwolves over recent years is easily explained by the quality of Love's teammates and doesn't require an interpretation of Love as a team-killing player.

Don't necessarily agree. He has to take some if not a good amount of blame too. This could explain why. Last year he had Pekovic, Martin, Rubio, Dieng, and even Brewer who show in spurts that he could be a very good role player. That's decent talent and it couldn't post a winning record.

Swap Love for Brandon Bass and the Celtics and Wolves probably swap win-loss records.   Minnesota might even fare a bit worse. That's how weak I think Love's teammates are.

You're swapping Bass, so my reply is OF COOURRRSSE! 0.0

Try swapping someone equally as talented (not on our team... yet) and the argument might be different. You can't swap Bass with Love as if Bass is even as good as Love's shoe! That says nothing about Love's teammates, that's about it being BASS! If we only get Love and he is only exchanged for Bass and our win-loss record was the same, that would mean Love is not half as good as he's made to be. I suspect if it was a swap of Bass and Love our win-loss record would be MUCH better (if Love is what he looks to be to most). It's a no brainer that Minny would have had a MUCH more horrible record with Bass.

Maybe I don't understand what you are saying?