Flip: Love doesn't have a right to be frustrated

[hpantazo]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10949807/kevin-love-tells-minnesota-timberwolves-sign-extension-likes-chicago-bulls-golden-state-warriors

"Kevin Love has made it clear to the Timberwolves that he intends to become an unrestricted free agent after next season and has no interest in a contract extension to stay in Minnesota, according to sources with knowledge of the situation."


Just to separate fantasy from reality.

No mention of the celtics on potential suitors

that's because its a much older article

[Eja117]

Since Flip is probably in charge of their marketing he should just change the teams logo to a burning bridge.

http://www.amazon.com/Burning-Bridges-Nodd-Morris/dp/B0019A8SPY

[Tr1boy]

Bet you guys Rockets are going to win the chase for Love

Parsons, Jones, Lin and 2014 1st for Love and Martin

that's a horrible trade for Minnesota, even if the rockets were willing to take on Martin's salary for a player that would play backup to Harden.

I don't get it Triboy, why are you so against the celtics getting Love? You absolutely hate the idea but have not provided any logical explanation besides your personal bias that Love is weak minded in your opinion, yet somehow a rookie with limited skills like Gordon would be a leader. It makes no sense.

If you were to provide a reasonable explanation for why you don't want Love, and some decent alternative options, I would understand and perhaps agree.

My reasons are that

1) Love might walk after next season.  He is walking away from Minny, what assures you he is going to stay with the Celts for the long term? What if Rondo is never the same again and we don't make the playoffs.

2) We have not seen Sullinger or KO at their max levels. We will see close to it next season. Better bodies, experience under their belt. There were stretches Sullinger was doing 20 and 15 and KO gained all the confidence in the world and was scoring 20ppg especially filling in for Sullinger the last 4 games. He was driving in making layups, doing better around the post, shooting the three at over 40 percent. His FG per overall was hovering around 50 per.

3) The 6th pick in this years draft would be a top 3 pick in any other. Smart, Randle, Gordon are all going to be nice players in this league. I wouldn't be surprised if they are just as good if not will surpass Wiggins, Parker and Embiid (if his back issue becomes an issue)

4) Love and Rondo(even healthy) won't make us a top 6 team.  Especially bc they don't play defense with full out effort. Plus the risk of Love leaving vs Keeping our team in tact, keeping the picks and having a bright future ahead.  Worse case with our developed talent you can make a big splash for the trade deadline of 2015 FA period.   

5) If love likes Boston so much , he sign here as a FA in 2015. He will have to face the same decision even if we traded for him to play 1 season.

6) you don't give up the farm so that you hope Rondo stays. He is a key player for the team but no way is a franchise player and also could walk after this upcoming season.

[Smokeeye123]

Ok I'm going to unload.

Flip Saunders is a loser. He is in charge of a loser franchise that will always be a loser franchise. They cannot draft, nobody wants to play there, they are arrogant, and they are a perpetual organization of losing. Love will leave just like every other star they ever get. Minnesota will never win a championship in my lifetime. Minnesota will be sold and move, only then will its losing culture and horribleness be purged from the NBA.

[Tr1boy]

Ok I'm going to unload.

Flip Saunders is a loser. He is in charge of a loser franchise that will always be a loser franchise. They cannot draft, nobody wants to play there, they are arrogant, and they are a perpetual organization of losing. Love will leave just like every other star they ever get. Minnesota will never win a championship in my lifetime. Minnesota will be sold and move, only then will its losing culture and horribleness be purged from the NBA.

isn't that the same thing they said about the Charlotte Bobcats/Pelicans?

Wolves brought in Martin, signed Pekovic. They are trying

Imo they need to trade Rubio who doesn't have wjat it takes to be a starter in the NBA and also could trade Pekovic for other pieces.  Dieng should start at C , Love at PF, draft a nice SF like TJ Warren, Martin at SG and trade for a better PG. Or sign Patty Mills as a FA

[obnoxiousmime]

Flip's comments are just face-saving garbage. Love < Garnett because Love won't take responsibility and is "frustrated."

What's incredible about Flip invoking Garnett is Garnett would be the first to advise Love to get the hell out of there because he waited too long himself and was too past his prime to win more titles in Boston. What Flip is saying in this quote is, "You don't have a right to complain even if we failed to get better talent around you."

[Ogaju]

Ok I'm going to unload.

Flip Saunders is a loser. He is in charge of a loser franchise that will always be a loser franchise. They cannot draft, nobody wants to play there, they are arrogant, and they are a perpetual organization of losing. Love will leave just like every other star they ever get. Minnesota will never win a championship in my lifetime. Minnesota will be sold and move, only then will its losing culture and horribleness be purged from the NBA.

I dont know why you won't tell us how you really feel. LOL

[hpantazo]

Bet you guys Rockets are going to win the chase for Love

Parsons, Jones, Lin and 2014 1st for Love and Martin

that's a horrible trade for Minnesota, even if the rockets were willing to take on Martin's salary for a player that would play backup to Harden.

I don't get it Triboy, why are you so against the celtics getting Love? You absolutely hate the idea but have not provided any logical explanation besides your personal bias that Love is weak minded in your opinion, yet somehow a rookie with limited skills like Gordon would be a leader. It makes no sense.

If you were to provide a reasonable explanation for why you don't want Love, and some decent alternative options, I would understand and perhaps agree.

My reasons are that

1) Love might walk after next season.  He is walking away from Minny, what assures you he is going to stay with the Celts for the long term? What if Rondo is never the same again and we don't make the playoffs.

2) We have not seen Sullinger or KO at their max levels. We will see close to it next season. Better bodies, experience under their belt. There were stretches Sullinger was doing 20 and 15 and KO gained all the confidence in the world and was scoring 20ppg especially filling in for Sullinger the last 4 games. He was driving in making layups, doing better around the post, shooting the three at over 40 percent. His FG per overall was hovering around 50 per.

3) The 6th pick in this years draft would be a top 3 pick in any other. Smart, Randle, Gordon are all going to be nice players in this league. I wouldn't be surprised if they are just as good if not will surpass Wiggins, Parker and Embiid (if his back issue becomes an issue)

4) Love and Rondo(even healthy) won't make us a top 6 team.  Especially bc they don't play defense with full out effort. Plus the risk of Love leaving vs Keeping our team in tact, keeping the picks and having a bright future ahead.  Worse case with our developed talent you can make a big splash for the trade deadline of 2015 FA period.   

5) If love likes Boston so much , he sign here as a FA in 2015. He will have to face the same decision even if we traded for him to play 1 season.

6) you don't give up the farm so that you hope Rondo stays. He is a key player for the team but no way is a franchise player and also could walk after this upcoming season.

These are all very good points Triboy, thanks for explaining your perspective. In the end I think the risk if we don't get a player like Love is that Rondo leaves next summer and we are the team that gets nothing in return, and as good as Sullinger, KO, and whoever we draft at 6 may be, we are left with no star players to build on. I could be wrong though.

I'm also certain that Ainge would not trade for Love without some assurances that both Love and Rondo stay past next summer, legal or otherwise. Don't underestimate the influence agents have in how the league works nowadays.

[hpantazo]

Ok I'm going to unload.

Flip Saunders is a loser. He is in charge of a loser franchise that will always be a loser franchise. They cannot draft, nobody wants to play there, they are arrogant, and they are a perpetual organization of losing. Love will leave just like every other star they ever get. Minnesota will never win a championship in my lifetime. Minnesota will be sold and move, only then will its losing culture and horribleness be purged from the NBA.

isn't that the same thing they said about the Charlotte Bobcats/Pelicans?

Wolves brought in Martin, signed Pekovic. They are trying

Imo they need to trade Rubio who doesn't have wjat it takes to be a starter in the NBA and also could trade Pekovic for other pieces.  Dieng should start at C , Love at PF, draft a nice SF like TJ Warren, Martin at SG and trade for a better PG. Or sign Patty Mills as a FA

they are trying, they just suck as a front office. They overpaid for Martin, and with Martin and Pek brought in two guys who don't play defense to add to two guys who don't play defense. I'm sure they would trade Rubio if any team was willing to give a good return for him, but who's going to give valuable players or assets for a PG who has been totally underwhelming and shows no signs of getting better?

[pokeKingCurtis]

Ok I'm going to unload.

Flip Saunders is a loser. He is in charge of a loser franchise that will always be a loser franchise. They cannot draft, nobody wants to play there, they are arrogant, and they are a perpetual organization of losing. Love will leave just like every other star they ever get. Minnesota will never win a championship in my lifetime. Minnesota will be sold and move, only then will its losing culture and horribleness be purged from the NBA.

isn't that the same thing they said about the Charlotte Bobcats/Pelicans?

Wolves brought in Martin, signed Pekovic. They are trying

Imo they need to trade Rubio who doesn't have wjat it takes to be a starter in the NBA and also could trade Pekovic for other pieces.  Dieng should start at C , Love at PF, draft a nice SF like TJ Warren, Martin at SG and trade for a better PG. Or sign Patty Mills as a FA

The Pelicans made a (imo) STUPID trade for Jrue Holiday. We'll see what they do in the near future.

The Bobcats have had tough tank luck. Now that they've stopped tanking, they've gotten Big Al and a bunch of lottery talent. I hope the Bobcats don't turn into the late-2000's 76ers. Perennial mediocrity. But it seems they have something brewing.

The Timberwolves - drafted multiple point guards, have been terrible at talent evaluation having bought too high on multiple players (Corey Brewer, Beasley, even Rubio), and now have let Flip Saunders turn them into a clownshow.

[Tr1boy]

Bet you guys Rockets are going to win the chase for Love

Parsons, Jones, Lin and 2014 1st for Love and Martin

that's a horrible trade for Minnesota, even if the rockets were willing to take on Martin's salary for a player that would play backup to Harden.

I don't get it Triboy, why are you so against the celtics getting Love? You absolutely hate the idea but have not provided any logical explanation besides your personal bias that Love is weak minded in your opinion, yet somehow a rookie with limited skills like Gordon would be a leader. It makes no sense.

If you were to provide a reasonable explanation for why you don't want Love, and some decent alternative options, I would understand and perhaps agree.

My reasons are that

1) Love might walk after next season.  He is walking away from Minny, what assures you he is going to stay with the Celts for the long term? What if Rondo is never the same again and we don't make the playoffs.

2) We have not seen Sullinger or KO at their max levels. We will see close to it next season. Better bodies, experience under their belt. There were stretches Sullinger was doing 20 and 15 and KO gained all the confidence in the world and was scoring 20ppg especially filling in for Sullinger the last 4 games. He was driving in making layups, doing better around the post, shooting the three at over 40 percent. His FG per overall was hovering around 50 per.

3) The 6th pick in this years draft would be a top 3 pick in any other. Smart, Randle, Gordon are all going to be nice players in this league. I wouldn't be surprised if they are just as good if not will surpass Wiggins, Parker and Embiid (if his back issue becomes an issue)

4) Love and Rondo(even healthy) won't make us a top 6 team.  Especially bc they don't play defense with full out effort. Plus the risk of Love leaving vs Keeping our team in tact, keeping the picks and having a bright future ahead.  Worse case with our developed talent you can make a big splash for the trade deadline of 2015 FA period.   

5) If love likes Boston so much , he sign here as a FA in 2015. He will have to face the same decision even if we traded for him to play 1 season.

6) you don't give up the farm so that you hope Rondo stays. He is a key player for the team but no way is a franchise player and also could walk after this upcoming season.

These are all very good points Triboy, thanks for explaining your perspective. In the end I think the risk if we don't get a player like Love is that Rondo leaves next summer and we are the team that gets nothing in return, and as good as Sullinger, KO, and whoever we draft at 6 may be, we are left with no star players to build on. I could be wrong though.

I'm also certain that Ainge would not trade for Love without some assurances that both Love and Rondo stay past next summer, legal or otherwise. Don't underestimate the influence agents have in how the league works nowadays.

If both Rondo and Love are healthy and both assured to stay for the next long while, then yeah i would think about making the trade.   If they will take a pay cut so we can add one or two more pieces, maybe then you do the trade without blinking

But there are no assurances and we will never know until the time comes.  Rondo has said on several occassions he is looking to go through the FA experience. He wants to get wooed and see what is out there. Even though i don't see him as a guy who likes a change of scenery , if he leaves i wouldn't be surprised one second.  He might not be able to work with Brad System or he might not even get along with KL (the picture we saw last week doesn't mean these guys are best friends now).  Kevin Love as i already explained can leave  this upcoming next season.  If for some reason we don't make the playoffs, don't expect that he will stick around.

There is just too much risk and quality assets involved imo to do a trade

[chambers]

Bet you guys Rockets are going to win the chase for Love

Parsons, Jones, Lin and 2014 1st for Love and Martin

that's a horrible trade for Minnesota, even if the rockets were willing to take on Martin's salary for a player that would play backup to Harden.

I don't get it Triboy, why are you so against the celtics getting Love? You absolutely hate the idea but have not provided any logical explanation besides your personal bias that Love is weak minded in your opinion, yet somehow a rookie with limited skills like Gordon would be a leader. It makes no sense.

If you were to provide a reasonable explanation for why you don't want Love, and some decent alternative options, I would understand and perhaps agree.

My reasons are that

1) Love might walk after next season.  He is walking away from Minny, what assures you he is going to stay with the Celts for the long term? What if Rondo is never the same again and we don't make the playoffs.

2) We have not seen Sullinger or KO at their max levels. We will see close to it next season. Better bodies, experience under their belt. There were stretches Sullinger was doing 20 and 15 and KO gained all the confidence in the world and was scoring 20ppg especially filling in for Sullinger the last 4 games. He was driving in making layups, doing better around the post, shooting the three at over 40 percent. His FG per overall was hovering around 50 per.

3) The 6th pick in this years draft would be a top 3 pick in any other. Smart, Randle, Gordon are all going to be nice players in this league. I wouldn't be surprised if they are just as good if not will surpass Wiggins, Parker and Embiid (if his back issue becomes an issue)

4) Love and Rondo(even healthy) won't make us a top 6 team.  Especially bc they don't play defense with full out effort. Plus the risk of Love leaving vs Keeping our team in tact, keeping the picks and having a bright future ahead.  Worse case with our developed talent you can make a big splash for the trade deadline of 2015 FA period.   

5) If love likes Boston so much , he sign here as a FA in 2015. He will have to face the same decision even if we traded for him to play 1 season.

6) you don't give up the farm so that you hope Rondo stays. He is a key player for the team but no way is a franchise player and also could walk after this upcoming season.

These are all very good points Triboy, thanks for explaining your perspective. In the end I think the risk if we don't get a player like Love is that Rondo leaves next summer and we are the team that gets nothing in return, and as good as Sullinger, KO, and whoever we draft at 6 may be, we are left with no star players to build on. I could be wrong though.

I'm also certain that Ainge would not trade for Love without some assurances that both Love and Rondo stay past next summer, legal or otherwise. Don't underestimate the influence agents have in how the league works nowadays.

If both Rondo and Love are healthy and both assured to stay for the next long while, then yeah i would think about making the trade.   If they will take a pay cut so we can add one or two more pieces, maybe then you do the trade without blinking

But there are no assurances and we will never know until the time comes.  Rondo has said on several occassions he is looking to go through the FA experience. He wants to get wooed and see what is out there. Even though i don't see him as a guy who likes a change of scenery , if he leaves i wouldn't be surprised one second.  He might not be able to work with Brad System or he might not even get along with KL (the picture we saw last week doesn't mean these guys are best friends now).  Kevin Love as i already explained can leave  this upcoming next season.  If for some reason we don't make the playoffs, don't expect that he will stick around.

There is just too much risk and quality assets involved imo to do a trade

Just remember that if we don't trade for Love, we can't offer him the most money in Free agency- and that takes a significant advantage away from us and makes the playing field more even. By having that advantage, we also have the advantage of keeping Rondo in free agency after the end of this season too.

To have the most financial control over Rondo AND Love is why Danny wants to make the trade now-it makes it much harder for them to leave, even if we do have a poor result this season with Love and Rondo.

[indeedproceed]

They should've called the article, 'Flip Saunders burns bridges and hurts leverage.'

[indeedproceed]

5) If love likes Boston so much , he sign here as a FA in 2015. He will have to face the same decision even if we traded for him to play 1 season.

This is wrong. If we traded for Love, we have so many other better options.

1) We could potentially extend him, and forgo the uncertainty of free agency

2) if we traded for him, we'd have his full bird rights. That means this season, instead of hedging and attempting to trim future salary further, we could trade for contracts that go beyond 2015 if that's what Danny thinks is in our best interest. We could still attempt to trim salary as well, but having options, especially ones that improve our chances of keeping a guy like Love, is a valuable asset in its own right.

3) Having Love already on the roster, especially if we extend him, means acquiring a 3rd piece is all the more easy. We'd have the pieces in place to make a player who ?'wants to win' know this is a real destination.

4) Drafting A-A-Ron Gordon or Randle or Smart doesn't mean our future is bright. It really means our future is potentially bright. Maybe they work out, and I think all 3 players have bright futures in the NBA, but the draft is the draft, and there is a reason they're not going 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 in June. Maybe we end up with a steal, it's happened before, maybe we end up with a good player and everyone that goes ahead is also a good player, but if we trade for Love we get a superstar, a top offensive player in the league. Weighing certainty against uncertainty is the way that casinos make money.

[Tr1boy]

They should've called the article, 'Flip Saunders burns bridges and hurts leverage.'

it's ok. Love started the whinning.  Saunders has been in the nba a long time. He has been to the playoffs before, he has coached some big name talent. He is not going to beg Love to stay like some gm's /management would do

Love imo is taking the easy way out.   I mean all he has done for the Wolves and fans cheering for him going down the toilet the way he is behaving right now. 

Saunders is basically telling him to toughen up a little more. He has been through nothing , and needs to try harder. He needs to give this current lineup another shot.  He has another year to go. 

I honestly think soon both of these guys will meet/have a talk.  Love is going to complain about how sick and tired he is of not making the playoffs and that he won't resign after his contract is up. Saunders will then ask him to stick around and he will get/trade for the pieces the team needs to make it next season. If not he will trade Love by the trade deadline.   Love might say no anyways and then Flip will find the worse siutation for KL to be in next season and try to get a good return. For example trade him to the Bucks.  Just saying the way Flip is, i wouldn't be surprised if he does this out of spite