NBC Sports-Chicago has a better offer for Love

[BballTim]

Sign and trades happen all the time. Love can get max, wol es get teams to outbid each other and the team that gets him has him for the long term

But your stating there is a new rule now that prevents this??

The only way it doesnt work is if the player wants to go to destination X but they dont have the asset, salary to make the trade work(sign max and trade right after)

   That's not how sign and trades work. Toronto did a sign and trade with Bosh to Miami. Bosh agreed to a contract with Miami and they gave a few assets to Toronto to facilitate the trade. It's not like Bosh signed a contract with Toronto and then said "trade me wherever you want, whether I want to play there or not, as long as you get the best return for me". If Minny trades Love now, they'll get a better return than they would in a sign and trade.

[saltlover]

How can the wolves play their cards correctly in this situation?

This Is a question for the contract experts. So the wolves can tell love he cant get the max on his next contract unless he first signs with them

When is the earliest love can do a sign to a max then the wolves can trade him?

Anyone can clarify?

Why would the Wolves tell him something that isn't correct?

Love can sign a max contract as soon as he's a free agent -- he can opt in to one more year on his current deal, but if the Wolves said something like that (which, honestly, doesn't actually make sense the way its written: can you rephrase what you mean?) he'd just opt out and sign a max with another team.

The Wolves absolutely are not going to sign Love to a max contract and trade him.

How soon can the wolves sign love to a max officially?? 2 months b4 he is a fa or 6 months , this offseason??

Or the earliest is when the 2015 season ends

The Wolves can offer Love a max deal at the end of 2015, if Love opts out of his contract, or at the end of 2016 if he doesn't. There's no guarantee that he'll sign it, though, and there's no way the team can force him to sign: look at the Dwight Howard situation for proof of that.

I get that. Just wanted to clearify

Why didnt dwight sign the max with the lakers then  get traded to the rockets?? Bc the rockets didnt have the assets to workout the trade?

Dwight signed a max deal with Houston.  The issue is that when you're changing teams as a free agent, the maximum raises and length of the deal with that team is less than if you signed with your original team, which is why his contract was smaller than it would have been with LA.

In the old CBA, this is why players used to sign-and-trade from their original team to their new team, even if the new team had cap room, so that they could get the deal as if they had signed with their old team.  This is what happened with Bosh, LeBron, and Miami (since Miami had the room to sign them outright, once they'd shipped off Beasley to the Wolves.)

However, in the new CBA, the rules were changed.  Now if you change teams as part of a sign-and-trade, you are limited to a contract with length and raises as if you had signed with your new team, even though you technically signed with your old team.  This makes sign-and-trades useful for teams who are over the cap, but teams with cap room now have no reason to engage in a sign-and-trade.

[D.o.s.]

^ Exactly. That's why there haven't been any massive sign-and-trades since the lockout: One of the big reasons the owners locked the players out in the first place was to get rid of that loophole (and, subsequently, restrict player movement by ensuring that if a player left, he was leaving a serious chunk of money on the table).

[saltlover]

^ Exactly. That's why there haven't been any massive sign-and-trades since the lockout: One of the big reasons the owners locked the players out in the first place was to get rid of it (and, subsequently, restrict player movement).

There have been some.  Golden State got Iggy last summer in a pretty large deal.  Initially they were just going to trade with Utah to create the cap room, but then Denver realized they would lose Iggy for nothing, so they took a couple of second round picks to make it a three-way deal.  By not using cap room, this freed Golden State to preserve the big MLE and Bi-Annual Exception, which they used on Marreese Speights and Jermaine O'Neal, respectively.  Where they make more sense to come into play is with restricted free agents.  Since the original team can just match the offer, it makes sense for the new team to offer compensation in the form of a sign-and-trade.  Once the offer sheet is signed, however, a sign-and-trade is not allowed.

[Fafnir]

The change to sign and trades wasn't to restrict play movement, it was to make it cost players money if they left teams in FA. Before they could demand to get paid and leave via a sign and trade, teams would do it for the TPE and a low draft pick as the player was gone. They wanted to make players take a financial hit.

The new CBA was designed to have more player movement, just look at how they made extensions junky compared to hitting FA. They wanted more players becoming FAs.

[LooseCannon]

The Wolves should be constructively tanking and their guys will be playing hard, playing together, and still ending up with a top 3-5 pick for the next 2 seasons. (like us)
Build some assets up, maybe bink an All Star or two with all those picks in the draft.

But they can't settle for the treadmill- I don't think Flip Saunders will- he and Taylor are tired of running on it.

My argument is that Flip needs to start from scratch, and build a squad like OKC from the ground up.
It's unlikely they get that star to build around with the #6 pick (although it's possible), but you need to start somewhere and the draft is likely the Timberwolves best bet to grab a franchise player or at least a few All Stars who'll want to stay in Minny past their rookie deals- just as you got KG and K Love.

That may be what you think they should do, but I am not sure that is what they want to do.  I suspect they would prefer to do a deal which makes them feel like they have a decent shot at making the playoffs next season.  It's been a decade since they made the playoffs and I think they would prefer a string of first-round exits in the near future to blowing things up and making it so that it will probably be at least three years before they are even close to the post-season.

[BballTim]

The Wolves should be constructively tanking and their guys will be playing hard, playing together, and still ending up with a top 3-5 pick for the next 2 seasons. (like us)
Build some assets up, maybe bink an All Star or two with all those picks in the draft.

But they can't settle for the treadmill- I don't think Flip Saunders will- he and Taylor are tired of running on it.

My argument is that Flip needs to start from scratch, and build a squad like OKC from the ground up.
It's unlikely they get that star to build around with the #6 pick (although it's possible), but you need to start somewhere and the draft is likely the Timberwolves best bet to grab a franchise player or at least a few All Stars who'll want to stay in Minny past their rookie deals- just as you got KG and K Love.

That may be what you think they should do, but I am not sure that is what they want to do.  I suspect they would prefer to do a deal which makes them feel like they have a decent shot at making the playoffs next season.  It's been a decade since they made the playoffs and I think they would prefer a string of first-round exits in the near future to blowing things up and making it so that it will probably be at least three years before they are even close to the post-season.

  That's assuming the team actually improves after they trade Love away. That's far from a given.

[LooseCannon]

Gibson is a decent defender but he's also come off the bench for most of his career to beat up on chumps and guys like Ian Mahinmi.
He's also next to Joahkim Noah which helps even more. Sully's been guarding starting NBA PF's and C's all season and done very well.

Gibson's been coming off the bench but he's been getting a lot of crunch time minutes while Boozer sits.  On a team with more offensive weapons, Gibson probably starts over Boozer.

[saltlover]

Gibson is a decent defender but he's also come off the bench for most of his career to beat up on chumps and guys like Ian Mahinmi.
He's also next to Joahkim Noah which helps even more. Sully's been guarding starting NBA PF's and C's all season and done very well.

Gibson's been coming off the bench but he's been getting a lot of crunch time minutes while Boozer sits.  On a team with more offensive weapons, Gibson probably starts over Boozer.

In fact, Gibson was told to expect to start next season.  Whether that means in Chicago, Minnesota, or elsewhere remains to be seen.  My gut says Chicago, as Boozer will be gone one way or another.

[D.o.s.]

The change to sign and trades wasn't to restrict play movement, it was to make it cost players money if they left teams in FA. Before they could demand to get paid and leave via a sign and trade, teams would do it for the TPE and a low draft pick as the player was gone. They wanted to make players take a financial hit.

The new CBA was designed to have more player movement, just look at how they made extensions junky compared to hitting FA. They wanted more players becoming FAs.

Faf, I love you buddy, but the bolded is a perfect example of why you're completely and utterly wrong. Reread what you wrote: why would you knee-cap extensions and simultaneously cost players money from leaving teams in free agencies? To offer the home team a serious fiscal advantage, aimed at giving them the most leverage at retaining the players they wanted to keep.

[LooseCannon]

Why didnt dwight sign the max with the lakers then  get traded to the rockets?? Bc the rockets didnt have the assets to workout the trade?

It seemed to be partly a negotiating ploy so that Howard would have to leave money on the table to go elsewhere and partly a desire to have cap space for 2015 if they lost Howard.

[fairweatherfan]

I got the impression that Minny's "Chicago could make a better offer" - and things like this report - was more of a "Hey Chicago! We want you to make a killer offer!" gambit.  Sounds a lot less like Chicago's made a great offer than that Minnesota is really hoping they will, either to take it or drive up other teams' price.

[rondohondo]

The Wolves should be constructively tanking and their guys will be playing hard, playing together, and still ending up with a top 3-5 pick for the next 2 seasons. (like us)
Build some assets up, maybe bink an All Star or two with all those picks in the draft.

But they can't settle for the treadmill- I don't think Flip Saunders will- he and Taylor are tired of running on it.

My argument is that Flip needs to start from scratch, and build a squad like OKC from the ground up.
It's unlikely they get that star to build around with the #6 pick (although it's possible), but you need to start somewhere and the draft is likely the Timberwolves best bet to grab a franchise player or at least a few All Stars who'll want to stay in Minny past their rookie deals- just as you got KG and K Love.

That may be what you think they should do, but I am not sure that is what they want to do.  I suspect they would prefer to do a deal which makes them feel like they have a decent shot at making the playoffs next season.  It's been a decade since they made the playoffs and I think they would prefer a string of first-round exits in the near future to blowing things up and making it so that it will probably be at least three years before they are even close to the post-season.

They are just plain stupid if they want/plan on making the playoffs next year? Especially in the West, it's not happening . By adding the bulls or warriors package of players , they just stay in the mediocre range of about 10th or 11th seed in the West.  They also don't have the collection of picks the c's do .

If they take the C's package , they get a solid young player(Sully) on a rookie contract for 2 more years, and he is already the same caliber of player as Taj Gibson, but still has more potential being 5 or 6 years younger than Gibson . They also get a top 6 pick this year( and probably 17 too) which is way better than the bulls picks. Plus they can get a future pick, maybe Brooklyn's 2016 . 

Also the C's trade would make them bad enough so they will likely get another top 5-10 pick in next years lottery.

C's can also take back a long term contract(Martin) for Bogans non-guaranteed contract.

So Wolves get

Sully(rookie contract)
#6 pick in 2014
#17 pick in 2014
top 5-10 pick next year(their own pick)
Brookyln's 2016 pick
clear a bunch of cap space

They are just plain stupid if they would rather have the Bulls package of role players and low teen draft picks , and a guy who might not even come over to the NBA , especially if he is going to Minny .

[LooseCannon]

The Wolves should be constructively tanking and their guys will be playing hard, playing together, and still ending up with a top 3-5 pick for the next 2 seasons. (like us)
Build some assets up, maybe bink an All Star or two with all those picks in the draft.

But they can't settle for the treadmill- I don't think Flip Saunders will- he and Taylor are tired of running on it.

My argument is that Flip needs to start from scratch, and build a squad like OKC from the ground up.
It's unlikely they get that star to build around with the #6 pick (although it's possible), but you need to start somewhere and the draft is likely the Timberwolves best bet to grab a franchise player or at least a few All Stars who'll want to stay in Minny past their rookie deals- just as you got KG and K Love.

That may be what you think they should do, but I am not sure that is what they want to do.  I suspect they would prefer to do a deal which makes them feel like they have a decent shot at making the playoffs next season.  It's been a decade since they made the playoffs and I think they would prefer a string of first-round exits in the near future to blowing things up and making it so that it will probably be at least three years before they are even close to the post-season.

  That's assuming the team actually improves after they trade Love away. That's far from a given.

In predicting how Minnesota plans to act, you sort of have to ignore reality and base your analysis on what Minnesota thinks it can do instead of what it is actually capable of.

[Tr1boy]

The Wolves should be constructively tanking and their guys will be playing hard, playing together, and still ending up with a top 3-5 pick for the next 2 seasons. (like us)
Build some assets up, maybe bink an All Star or two with all those picks in the draft.

But they can't settle for the treadmill- I don't think Flip Saunders will- he and Taylor are tired of running on it.

My argument is that Flip needs to start from scratch, and build a squad like OKC from the ground up.
It's unlikely they get that star to build around with the #6 pick (although it's possible), but you need to start somewhere and the draft is likely the Timberwolves best bet to grab a franchise player or at least a few All Stars who'll want to stay in Minny past their rookie deals- just as you got KG and K Love.

That may be what you think they should do, but I am not sure that is what they want to do.  I suspect they would prefer to do a deal which makes them feel like they have a decent shot at making the playoffs next season.  It's been a decade since they made the playoffs and I think they would prefer a string of first-round exits in the near future to blowing things up and making it so that it will probably be at least three years before they are even close to the post-season.

+1