Author Topic: We're not getting Love  (Read 23481 times)

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Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2014, 09:40:54 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Here is what was said regarding Houston:

Houston Rockets

Trade bait: James Harden, Omer Asik, Jeremy Lin, Terrence Jones, Troy Daniels

Pitch: Houston will sell the Wolves on Harden being the only All-NBA player dangled in an offer, along with an elite defensive big in Asik and any other selection from the end of the roster. Like Golden State, the Rockets' strength is they can give up proven talent to help Minnesota win in the present. Unlike Golden State, Houston can throw in a combination of first-rounders moving forward. In this scenario, Love plays alongside a dominant defensive big in Howard and plays for the man who drafted and coached him in Kevin McHale.

I would also add the fact there are no state taxes in Texas, big bump in money made. Houston has the ways and means to make it happen.

If Houston actually offers them Harden, then yes, they can win.  But Asik and Lin do nothing for Minnesota aside from costing a ton of money.  As I've said elsewhere, those two play they same positions as Minny's four-best non-Love players, and will be paid $13 million more than Love this season (actual cash, because cap isn't a concern to Minny this year, but cash will be when trading away their most marketable player).  In fact, they'd both be backups making all that money.  That's not at all attractive.  Parsons is nice, but not for Minnesota.  He's cheap this year, but if you're trading Love, you don't care about this year.  You care about next year, when Parsons will be an unrestricted free agent and can leave himself.

Again, if they offer up Harden, then yes, they can get Love.  But if they start asking for something else, or for Minnesota to take on Asik and/or Lin, then they're not nearly as atteactive of a partner.

In terms of Boston, we could send them either Sullinger or Olynyk, Anthony, and the rest of the salary could be made up in non-guaranteed contracts, and draft picks, of which we have several better ones than any other team in pursuit.  Minnesota would only have to take on $3.8 million in dead salary (Anthony), could get a young, cheap player who's cost-controlled for 2-3 years (Sully or Olynyk), and some draft compensation, whether that be #6 overall this year, future picks, or both.  This would leave them with the flexibility to add something else to their team via free agency or trade, and would not break their pocketbook, which will become more fragile without Love.

It depends what Minny wants, but we can certainly make a competitive offer.  If you think that David Lee and Harrison Barnes, but no payroll flexibility or picks, will get them over the playoff hump, then yes, they should take that.  If you think Harden, but again no flexibility and probably no picks, will get them in, sure they should do that.  But if neither of those are going to produce any better results than they've already gotten, maybe it does make sense to take a shot at future talent instead of present talent, if the present talent isn't good enough.  That's what we offer that his other suitors can't seem to match.  (Except maybe Chicago, but I'm not convinced the Bulls will pursue Love unless he's had at a bargain.  Between Gibson and Mrotic, they have that position decently covered, and getting Melo, or even getting back Deng, makes more sense to their roster.)

Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2014, 09:43:39 AM »

Offline BballTim

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What does Houston have that would interest the Wolves other than James Harden?

Parsons and Terrence Jones aren't getting it done, not without draft considerations that Houston doesn't have to give.

They can give picks, plus Jones is really quite good. Better than Sully right now. Granted he has been healthy and Sully has not in the grand scheme of things.

Also Love can dictate where he wants to go. If he says, Houston or nowhere cause I won't sign, they are stuck. He controls the cards. Love, Parsons and Howard would be a terrifying team even in the loaded west.

  Do you have any evidence that Love would say "Houston or nowhere"?

Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2014, 09:44:00 AM »

Offline gpap

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Here is what was said regarding Houston:

Houston Rockets

Trade bait: James Harden, Omer Asik, Jeremy Lin, Terrence Jones, Troy Daniels

Pitch: Houston will sell the Wolves on Harden being the only All-NBA player dangled in an offer, along with an elite defensive big in Asik and any other selection from the end of the roster. Like Golden State, the Rockets' strength is they can give up proven talent to help Minnesota win in the present. Unlike Golden State, Houston can throw in a combination of first-rounders moving forward. In this scenario, Love plays alongside a dominant defensive big in Howard and plays for the man who drafted and coached him in Kevin McHale.

I would also add the fact there are no state taxes in Texas, big bump in money made. Houston has the ways and means to make it happen.

If Houston actually offers them Harden, then yes, they can win.  But Asik and Lin do nothing for Minnesota aside from costing a ton of money.  As I've said elsewhere, those two play they same positions as Minny's four-best non-Love players, and will be paid $13 million more than Love this season (actual cash, because cap isn't a concern to Minny this year, but cash will be when trading away their most marketable player).  In fact, they'd both be backups making all that money.
 That's not at all attractive.  Parsons is nice, but not for Minnesota.  He's cheap this year, but if you're trading Love, you don't care about this year.  You care about next year, when Parsons will be an unrestricted free agent and can leave himself.

Again, if they offer up Harden, then yes, the can get Love.  But if they start asking for something else, or for Minnesota to take on Asik and/or Lin, then they're not nearly as atteactive of a partner.

In terms of Boston, we could send them either Sullinger or Olynyk, Anthony, and the rest of the salary could be made up in non-guaranteed contracts, and draft picks, of which we have several better ones than any other team in pursuit.  Minnesota would only have to take on $3.8 million in dead salary (Anthony), could get a young, cheap player who's cost-controlled for 2-3 years (Sully or Olynyk), and some draft compensation, whether that be #6 overall this year, future picks, or both.  This would leave them with the flexibility to add something else to their team via free agency or trade, and would not break their pocketbook, which will become more fragile without Love.

It depends what Minny wants, but we can certainly make a competitive offer.  If you think that David Lee and Harrison Barnes, but no payroll flexibility or picks, will get them over the playoff hump, then yes, they should take that.  If you think Harden, but again no flexibility and probably no picks, will get them in, sure they should do that.  But if neither of those are going to produce any better results than they've already gotten, maybe it does make sense to take a shot at future talent instead of present talent, if the present talent isn't good enough.  That's what we offer that his other suitors can't seem to match.  (Except maybe Chicago, but I'm not convinced the Bulls will pursue Love unless he's had at a bargain.  Between Gibson and Mrotic, they have that position decently covered, and getting Melo, or even getting back Deng, makes more sense to their roster.)

Exactly. If Houston were to offer James Harden, then yes Minny does that in a heartbeat, as they should!  But other than Harden, I don't see anything else tempting that Houston could offer Minnesota

And here's the other thing....if you're Houston, why do you deal Harden for Love? Seems like a lateral move, no?

Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2014, 09:44:51 AM »

Offline BleedGreen1989

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This is from a Timberwolves fan...

Quote
My new order of preference is:

1. Cleveland (1 + Waiters + filler)
2. Philadelphia (3 + 10 + Young + filler)
3. Golden State (Thompson + Barnes + Lee)
4. Boston (6 + Sullinger + Future pick + Filler)
5. Chicago (Mirotic + Taj + Butler + Pick)

I know fans don't make the decisions but this seemed to be the consensus. I see 1-3 being fairly unrealistic.
*CB Miami Heat*
Kyle Lowry, Dwayne Wade, 13th pick in even numbered rounds, 18th pick in odd numbered rounds.

Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2014, 09:46:25 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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This is from a Timberwolves fan...

Quote
My new order of preference is:

1. Cleveland (1 + Waiters + filler)
2. Philadelphia (3 + 10 + Young + filler)
3. Golden State (Thompson + Barnes + Lee)
4. Boston (6 + Sullinger + Future pick + Filler)
5. Chicago (Mirotic + Taj + Butler + Pick)

I know fans don't make the decisions but this seemed to be the consensus. I see 1-3 being fairly unrealistic.

I think #1 is a very realistic offer -- in fact, I'd be surprised if that phone call hasn't already happened yet -- the question is whether Minny will match.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2014, 09:49:42 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Either way, In Chicago, Golden State or Houston, those teams have the ability to give Minnesota plenty of talent and picks while remaining title contenders right away. We do not. If we trade the house for Love, we would have nothing else to get the third star needed to beat any title contender.

I believe Boston could give both of our first rounders this year and 1 or 2 future firsts.  None of those other three teams can even come close to matching that, given that it includes #'s 6 and 17 in a loaded draft.  Houston is also NOT trading Harden for Love.  Chicago is also going to offer up, what?  Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson along with a couple of 1st rounders that will very likely be in the mid to upper 20s?  I think what Boston can offer easily outdistances those deals.

Now, if Golden State is willing to give Thompson, Lee and Barnes, I'm not sure Boston can beat that.  That kind of talent infusion would prevent Minny from launching YET ANOTHER rebuild and provide tangible assets for future deals.

Mike

But again, all 3 of those guys (if I am not mistaken) will be free agents either next year or the year after.

Also, highly doubt any of them woud want to resign in Minnesota.

So essentially, the Wolves would've dealt Love for three 1-2 year rentals from Golden State, not to mention both teams are in the West.

Well, obviously as Ainge won't give up Sully and multiple firsts for Love unless he signs an extension, Minny won't take Thompson and Barnes without them signing extensions.

Mike

Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2014, 09:50:47 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

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This is from a Timberwolves fan...

Quote
My new order of preference is:

1. Cleveland (1 + Waiters + filler)
2. Philadelphia (3 + 10 + Young + filler)
3. Golden State (Thompson + Barnes + Lee)
4. Boston (6 + Sullinger + Future pick + Filler)
5. Chicago (Mirotic + Taj + Butler + Pick)

I know fans don't make the decisions but this seemed to be the consensus. I see 1-3 being fairly unrealistic.

I just don't see the Cavs trading away their first pick for a risk of Love not re-signing, so that's out.

Philly isn't even concerned with bringing in Love, although who knows if they could shock the world and supposedly grab him.

GSW looks the most interesting, but Klay is going to need to be re-signed too, and there is no guarantee that he will be happy in Wolves. Barnes is still young, so plenty of growth, but Lee just doesn't fit anywhere for the Wolves... Haven't they learned Pekovic/Lee isn't a good defensive duo. What makes it even worse you swap an inferior older veteran who can't space the floor as well as Love can.

Chicago is just funny.
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It's based on your perspective, quite simply
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Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2014, 09:51:16 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Either way, In Chicago, Golden State or Houston, those teams have the ability to give Minnesota plenty of talent and picks while remaining title contenders right away. We do not. If we trade the house for Love, we would have nothing else to get the third star needed to beat any title contender.

I believe Boston could give both of our first rounders this year and 1 or 2 future firsts.  None of those other three teams can even come close to matching that, given that it includes #'s 6 and 17 in a loaded draft.  Houston is also NOT trading Harden for Love.  Chicago is also going to offer up, what?  Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson along with a couple of 1st rounders that will very likely be in the mid to upper 20s?  I think what Boston can offer easily outdistances those deals.

Now, if Golden State is willing to give Thompson, Lee and Barnes, I'm not sure Boston can beat that.  That kind of talent infusion would prevent Minny from launching YET ANOTHER rebuild and provide tangible assets for future deals.

Mike

But again, all 3 of those guys (if I am not mistaken) will be free agents either next year or the year after.

Also, highly doubt any of them woud want to resign in Minnesota.

So essentially, the Wolves would've dealt Love for three 1-2 year rentals from Golden State, not to mention both teams are in the West.

Well, obviously as Ainge won't give up Sully and multiple firsts for Love unless he signs an extension, Minny won't take Thompson and Barnes without them signing extensions.

Mike

None of those guys are signing extensions before they hit free agency unless it's an injury-driven buy low ala Steph Curry
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2014, 09:52:11 AM »

Offline fandrew

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Please everyone just stop. We do not have the assets and the team that would be left if we did steal him from the Wolves would not win a thing, putting Love right back where he was, just further east. Here is a rather astute take from ESPN writer Amin Elhassan


Boston Celtics

Trade bait: Jared Sullinger, Brandon Bass, Joel Anthony, Keith Bogans, picks

Pitch: The Celtics have a wealth of future picks from Brooklyn as well as an unprotected 2015 first-rounder from the Clippers and a protected 2015 first-rounder from Philly. Plus, the C's can offer some mildly interesting young talents like Sullinger, expiring deals in Bass and Anthony and Bogans' nonguaranteed $5.3 million deal. Love would play with Rajon Rondo in the East. But the offer to Minnesota and the prospects for Love pale in comparison to potential deals from other suitors.

There you have it. He rightly lists the Bulls, Warriors and Rockets as the teams who could honestly get him. Teams that have better talent to win now and a better perceived future. I am fairly convinced Love goes to Houston. It is warm, he admires McHale, the guy who picked him and groomed him along with the fact there are no state taxes in Houston.

Either way, In Chicago, Golden State or Houston, those teams have the ability to give Minnesota plenty of talent and picks while remaining title contenders right away. We do not. If we trade the house for Love, we would have nothing else to get the third star needed to beat any title contender.

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Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2014, 09:52:24 AM »

Offline BleedGreen1989

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This is from a Timberwolves fan...

Quote
My new order of preference is:

1. Cleveland (1 + Waiters + filler)
2. Philadelphia (3 + 10 + Young + filler)
3. Golden State (Thompson + Barnes + Lee)
4. Boston (6 + Sullinger + Future pick + Filler)
5. Chicago (Mirotic + Taj + Butler + Pick)

I know fans don't make the decisions but this seemed to be the consensus. I see 1-3 being fairly unrealistic.

I think #1 is a very realistic offer -- in fact, I'd be surprised if that phone call hasn't already happened yet -- the question is whether Minny will match.

Obviously I have no inside information, but I just can't see it. Cleveland lucked into the #1 pick. They need to just draft who they think is the best player and count their blessings.

But yeah, if Minnesota can get #1 for Love, I'd do it yesterday.
*CB Miami Heat*
Kyle Lowry, Dwayne Wade, 13th pick in even numbered rounds, 18th pick in odd numbered rounds.

Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2014, 09:52:54 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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None of those guys are signing extensions before they hit free agency unless it's an injury-driven buy low ala Steph Curry
Most players sign the first contract extension, if they don't its just RFA and the team still can keep them.

Its on the second and third contracts that players aren't signing extensions on anymore.

Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2014, 09:53:13 AM »

Offline gpap

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Either way, In Chicago, Golden State or Houston, those teams have the ability to give Minnesota plenty of talent and picks while remaining title contenders right away. We do not. If we trade the house for Love, we would have nothing else to get the third star needed to beat any title contender.

I believe Boston could give both of our first rounders this year and 1 or 2 future firsts.  None of those other three teams can even come close to matching that, given that it includes #'s 6 and 17 in a loaded draft.  Houston is also NOT trading Harden for Love.  Chicago is also going to offer up, what?  Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson along with a couple of 1st rounders that will very likely be in the mid to upper 20s?  I think what Boston can offer easily outdistances those deals.

Now, if Golden State is willing to give Thompson, Lee and Barnes, I'm not sure Boston can beat that.  That kind of talent infusion would prevent Minny from launching YET ANOTHER rebuild and provide tangible assets for future deals.

Mike

But again, all 3 of those guys (if I am not mistaken) will be free agents either next year or the year after.

Also, highly doubt any of them woud want to resign in Minnesota.

So essentially, the Wolves would've dealt Love for three 1-2 year rentals from Golden State, not to mention both teams are in the West.

Well, obviously as Ainge won't give up Sully and multiple firsts for Love unless he signs an extension, Minny won't take Thompson and Barnes without them signing extensions.

Mike

See, I think Ainge makes the move even if Love doesn't sign an extension. Sometimes, you gotta take risks.

Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2014, 09:54:25 AM »

Offline Aymanelgowainy

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This is from a Timberwolves fan...

Quote
My new order of preference is:

1. Cleveland (1 + Waiters + filler)
2. Philadelphia (3 + 10 + Young + filler)
3. Golden State (Thompson + Barnes + Lee)
4. Boston (6 + Sullinger + Future pick + Filler)
5. Chicago (Mirotic + Taj + Butler + Pick)

I know fans don't make the decisions but this seemed to be the consensus. I see 1-3 being fairly unrealistic.

I just don't see the Cavs trading away their first pick for a risk of Love not re-signing, so that's out.

Philly isn't even concerned with bringing in Love, although who knows if they could shock the world and supposedly grab him.

GSW looks the most interesting, but Klay is going to need to be re-signed too, and there is no guarantee that he will be happy in Wolves. Barnes is still young, so plenty of growth, but Lee just doesn't fit anywhere for the Wolves... Haven't they learned Pekovic/Lee isn't a good defensive duo. What makes it even worse you swap an inferior older veteran who can't space the floor as well as Love can.

Chicago is just funny.

Lol ya exactly Love wont resign in Cleveland or Philly... Doubt the warriors would offer that package but its possible.. However Boston could always include another pick and/or Bass or Bogans... We also have enough cap space to take back a relatively bad contract such as KMart or Budinger..

Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2014, 09:55:26 AM »

Offline gpap

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This is from a Timberwolves fan...

Quote
My new order of preference is:

1. Cleveland (1 + Waiters + filler)
2. Philadelphia (3 + 10 + Young + filler)
3. Golden State (Thompson + Barnes + Lee)
4. Boston (6 + Sullinger + Future pick + Filler)
5. Chicago (Mirotic + Taj + Butler + Pick)

I know fans don't make the decisions but this seemed to be the consensus. I see 1-3 being fairly unrealistic.

I just don't see the Cavs trading away their first pick for a risk of Love not re-signing, so that's out.

Philly isn't even concerned with bringing in Love, although who knows if they could shock the world and supposedly grab him.

GSW looks the most interesting, but Klay is going to need to be re-signed too, and there is no guarantee that he will be happy in Wolves. Barnes is still young, so plenty of growth, but Lee just doesn't fit anywhere for the Wolves... Haven't they learned Pekovic/Lee isn't a good defensive duo. What makes it even worse you swap an inferior older veteran who can't space the floor as well as Love can.

Chicago is just funny.

I agree. Yesterday, I also thought Cleveland could've been a legit option to deal for Love, but then another poster on this site (it may have been you) intelligently made me realize "why on earth would Love want to sign an extension to play in that rathole in Cleveland?"

Also, no way the Cavs deal their 1 pick without Love signing an extension first.

Re: We're not getting Love
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2014, 09:58:12 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Please everyone just stop. We do not have the assets and the team that would be left if we did steal him from the Wolves would not win a thing, putting Love right back where he was, just further east. Here is a rather astute take from ESPN writer Amin Elhassan


Boston Celtics

Trade bait: Jared Sullinger, Brandon Bass, Joel Anthony, Keith Bogans, picks

Pitch: The Celtics have a wealth of future picks from Brooklyn as well as an unprotected 2015 first-rounder from the Clippers and a protected 2015 first-rounder from Philly. Plus, the C's can offer some mildly interesting young talents like Sullinger, expiring deals in Bass and Anthony and Bogans' nonguaranteed $5.3 million deal. Love would play with Rajon Rondo in the East. But the offer to Minnesota and the prospects for Love pale in comparison to potential deals from other suitors.

There you have it. He rightly lists the Bulls, Warriors and Rockets as the teams who could honestly get him. Teams that have better talent to win now and a better perceived future. I am fairly convinced Love goes to Houston. It is warm, he admires McHale, the guy who picked him and groomed him along with the fact there are no state taxes in Houston.

Either way, In Chicago, Golden State or Houston, those teams have the ability to give Minnesota plenty of talent and picks while remaining title contenders right away. We do not. If we trade the house for Love, we would have nothing else to get the third star needed to beat any title contender.


Nothing here makes sense .....you don't know Danny at all.