So Wyc Grousbeck and Danny Ainge pretty much confirmed we're getting Kevin Love

[mgent]

What did Garnett, Allen, and Pierce win before they joined up?

What did LeBron win before he went to Miami?

Point blank: Winning basketball teams have talent. Getting the right talented pieces to complement eachother leads to Championships. Right now the Celtics don't have enough talent. Love helps that.

Um, a lot...........

MVPs, playoff series...........stuff like that.

Get real.

KG led his team by himself to the playoffs 8 years in a row.  That's 47 playoff games he was already in.  Averaged 22-13-5-2-1. 

Ray was in the playoffs 4 times as the best player on 2 different teams.  37 games.  Averaged 25-5-5.

Pierce was in the playoffs 4 times and played 37 full games as well.  Averaged 21-7-4 while getting to the line 9 times per game.

LeBron played in 71 playoff games before going to Heat, 5 consecutive years out of his 7 years in the league.  All of this was done while he was younger than Love is NOW.

Your point is completely lost on me.  How does Kevin Love compare at all to these players?  No playoff contender is going to blow up their team for a loser, he's nowhere even close to the players you listed.

When those big 3s formed, every basketball fan knew Boston and Miami were guaranteed to start winning championships.  No one is going to say that about a Kevin Love big 3, outside of Celticsblog apparently where Love is already an MVP.  Do people really not understand how much easier it is to get stats on one of the worst teams in the league?

And if all that is important are championships, then what are MVPs, All-Star Appearances, and 1st Round Playoff exits good for?

It isn't Love's fault that Minnesota whiffed on selecting Curry, Jefferson got hurt, or that he plays with a junk roster in the tough Western conference.

Love is a Top-10 or Top-15 NBA player today as we speak. I wouldn't exactly call him a stat padder, either, considering that he is one of the most efficient players in the entire association (3rd in PER). He fights for 2nd chance points on the offensive glass, he ends opponent's offensive possessions with defensive boards, he turns defense into offense with outlet passes, he scores efficiently from the most valued spots on the floor (at the rim, at the free throw lines, and from 3). You can't tell me that you think the Cs would be worse off with Love on the roster than without him...

Just because he hasn't lugged the anchor that is Minnesota's junk roster to a 1st Round playoff exit - like all those other players did at one point in their careers - doesn't mean he is a bad player or a player you can't build around. I assure you Love can be apart of a winning team.

I wanted to stop reading after you used PER to confirm Love "is one of the most efficient players in the entire association," but I'm glad I didn't because that last paragraph made me fall over laughing.

Apparently I can't "assure" you that KG, Paul, Ray, and LeBron were better basketball players than Love despite evidence, because they had not won a championship yet.

HOWEVER,

You can somehow "assure" me that Love can do something that he has not done yet just because you say so?




You basically said "Love's not winning doesn't prove he can't win, but I've proven Love can win without him winning."

[mgent]

And BTW, when did I say anything close to "Love is a bad player because he's never won anything," or "The Celtics would be worse off with Love than without?"

You asked what KG, Paul, Ray, and LeBron did/won before they won championships.  All I did was answer that:  they did way more to prove themselves than Love has done so far.  It's not even close.

[McHales Pits]

What did Garnett, Allen, and Pierce win before they joined up?

What did LeBron win before he went to Miami?

Point blank: Winning basketball teams have talent. Getting the right talented pieces to complement eachother leads to Championships. Right now the Celtics don't have enough talent. Love helps that.

Um, a lot...........

MVPs, playoff series...........stuff like that.

Get real.

KG led his team by himself to the playoffs 8 years in a row.  That's 47 playoff games he was already in.  Averaged 22-13-5-2-1. 

Ray was in the playoffs 4 times as the best player on 2 different teams.  37 games.  Averaged 25-5-5.

Pierce was in the playoffs 4 times and played 37 full games as well.  Averaged 21-7-4 while getting to the line 9 times per game.

LeBron played in 71 playoff games before going to Heat, 5 consecutive years out of his 7 years in the league.  All of this was done while he was younger than Love is NOW.

Your point is completely lost on me.  How does Kevin Love compare at all to these players?  No playoff contender is going to blow up their team for a loser, he's nowhere even close to the players you listed.

When those big 3s formed, every basketball fan knew Boston and Miami were guaranteed to start winning championships.  No one is going to say that about a Kevin Love big 3, outside of Celticsblog apparently where Love is already an MVP.  Do people really not understand how much easier it is to get stats on one of the worst teams in the league?

And if all that is important are championships, then what are MVPs, All-Star Appearances, and 1st Round Playoff exits good for?

It isn't Love's fault that Minnesota whiffed on selecting Curry, Jefferson got hurt, or that he plays with a junk roster in the tough Western conference.

Love is a Top-10 or Top-15 NBA player today as we speak. I wouldn't exactly call him a stat padder, either, considering that he is one of the most efficient players in the entire association (3rd in PER). He fights for 2nd chance points on the offensive glass, he ends opponent's offensive possessions with defensive boards, he turns defense into offense with outlet passes, he scores efficiently from the most valued spots on the floor (at the rim, at the free throw lines, and from 3). You can't tell me that you think the Cs would be worse off with Love on the roster than without him...

Just because he hasn't lugged the anchor that is Minnesota's junk roster to a 1st Round playoff exit - like all those other players did at one point in their careers - doesn't mean he is a bad player or a player you can't build around. I assure you Love can be apart of a winning team.

I wanted to stop reading after you used PER to confirm Love "is one of the most efficient players in the entire association," but I'm glad I didn't because that last paragraph made me fall over laughing.

Apparently I can't "assure" you that KG, Paul, Ray, and LeBron were better basketball players than Love despite evidence, because they had not won a championship yet.

HOWEVER,

You can somehow "assure" me that Love can do something that he has not done yet just because you say so?




You basically said "Love's not winning doesn't prove he can't win, but I've proven Love can win without him winning."

Listen here, pal...

Aside from the fact that I'm not crazy about your tone, I will still take the time to respond to your condescending post. I just fundamentally disagree with your assertion that Love is not a good player. I think you will find that the majority of people who follow the NBA would disagree with you.

It is only my opinion that he can be a key contributor on a winning team. He took his college team to the Final 4 and he was a key member (shooting/rebounding) on a gold medal winning US Olympic team. I'm not silly enough to say that he didn't have help in both of those instances because he did - but he was still a key member. I never said Love was better than Garnett, Allen, James, or Pierce - I simply pointed out that they didn't win any championships until they surrounded themselves with other talented players. So just because Love hasn't won anything currently, doesn't mean he will never be able to win.

Is he a perfect player? No. Is he the perfect player to build around? Debatable, but I would say no. Is he unequivocally better than any player the Cs currently have or have the opportunity to draft at #6? Yes.

[Monkhouse]

He finished the 2013-14 regular season fourth in scoring average (26.1), third in PER (26.9), third in win shares (14.3) and eighth in usage percentage (28..

Yes, those are only just regular season stats. Yes, Love has never made the playoffs. Yes, the team of the Wolves were probably the best team to never make the playoffs. They also led the league in allowing points in the 4th quarter. Yes, Pekovic/Love is a horrible defensive duo. Yes, Rubio is a horrible point guard who can't do anything except for gamble for a steal, and pass. Yes, their best defender is Corey Brewer.

Love isn't on the same as KG/Pierce/LBJ, but... hes better than the sixth pick, I guarantee that. I don't think Gordon, Randle or Vonleh will ever be better than Love at their similar respective ages.

Rondo is a great passer. He benefits from having shooters. Love is the best stretch 4 in the NBA. The most we would have to give up is 3 picks, and a few cap relief/Sully for Love who can instantly propel us to the playoffs, and then all we need is a defensive Center/another go to scorer.

[kozlodoev]

I have no problem trading for Love if it makes sense, but not if we give up every 1st round pick over the next 3-4 years.  That is too much.

This is, quite obviously, not possible under the NBA trade rules.

[kozlodoev]

He finished the 2013-14 regular season fourth in scoring average (26.1), third in PER (26.9), third in win shares (14.3) and eighth in usage percentage (28..

Yes, those are only just regular season stats. Yes, Love has never made the playoffs. Yes, the team of the Wolves were probably the best team to never make the playoffs. They also led the league in allowing points in the 4th quarter. Yes, Pekovic/Love is a horrible defensive duo. Yes, Rubio is a horrible point guard who can't do anything except for gamble for a steal, and pass. Yes, their best defender is Corey Brewer.

Love isn't on the same as KG/Pierce/LBJ, but... hes better than the sixth pick, I guarantee that. I don't think Gordon, Randle or Vonleh will ever be better than Love at their similar respective ages.

Rondo is a great passer. He benefits from having shooters. Love is the best stretch 4 in the NBA. The most we would have to give up is 3 picks, and a few cap relief/Sully for Love who can instantly propel us to the playoffs, and then all we need is a defensive Center/another go to scorer.

Yeah, Rondo is a great passer. And, arguably, he can't do much more than gamble for steals and pass.

[Monkhouse]

He finished the 2013-14 regular season fourth in scoring average (26.1), third in PER (26.9), third in win shares (14.3) and eighth in usage percentage (28..

Yes, those are only just regular season stats. Yes, Love has never made the playoffs. Yes, the team of the Wolves were probably the best team to never make the playoffs. They also led the league in allowing points in the 4th quarter. Yes, Pekovic/Love is a horrible defensive duo. Yes, Rubio is a horrible point guard who can't do anything except for gamble for a steal, and pass. Yes, their best defender is Corey Brewer.

Love isn't on the same as KG/Pierce/LBJ, but... hes better than the sixth pick, I guarantee that. I don't think Gordon, Randle or Vonleh will ever be better than Love at their similar respective ages.

Rondo is a great passer. He benefits from having shooters. Love is the best stretch 4 in the NBA. The most we would have to give up is 3 picks, and a few cap relief/Sully for Love who can instantly propel us to the playoffs, and then all we need is a defensive Center/another go to scorer.

Yeah, Rondo is a great passer. And, arguably, he can't do much more than gamble for steals and pass.

Disagree on every count.

Rondo has a better mid range jumper, and can actually finish inside... Rubio cannot, and botches easy layups on the daily.

[LooseCannon]

You asked what KG, Paul, Ray, and LeBron did/won before they won championships.  All I did was answer that:  they did way more to prove themselves than Love has done so far.  It's not even close.

It's hard to prove yourself when, at times, you've been saddled with historically bad teammates.

[D.o.s.]

You asked what KG, Paul, Ray, and LeBron did/won before they won championships.  All I did was answer that:  they did way more to prove themselves than Love has done so far.  It's not even close.

It's hard to prove yourself when, at times, you've been saddled with historically bad teammates.

That was back in 2011 -- I'd be interested to see those numbers run against last year.

[Celtics4ever]

Love isn't on the same as KG/Pierce/LBJ, but... hes better than the sixth pick

I am not on the Love bandwagon and I would concede this fact.

It's hard to prove yourself when, at times, you've been saddled with historically bad teammates.

Excuses are like butts everyone has them.

My favorite player all time is Bird.   Is the similarity to Bird why people like Love?   He is a tall, rebounding, scoring and shooting white guy but Love is no Bird folks.   He isn't bad and would be fun to watch but he would need a defensive C to make it here.   That is something we don't have now nor are they easy to come by folks.

[Lucky17]

Love isn't on the same as KG/Pierce/LBJ, but... hes better than the sixth pick

I am not on the Love bandwagon and I would concede this fact.

It's hard to prove yourself when, at times, you've been saddled with historically bad teammates.

Excuses are like butts everyone has them.

My favorite player all time is Bird.   Is the similarity to Bird why people like Love?   He is a tall, rebounding, scoring and shooting white guy but Love is no Bird folks.   He isn't bad and would be fun to watch but he would need a defensive C to make it here.   That is something we don't have now nor are they easy to come by folks.

Omer Asik has been connected to trade rumors with the Celtics for months now. If you really think that Ainge believes Love is the final piece to acquire, I don't know what to tell you.

[Fafnir]

You asked what KG, Paul, Ray, and LeBron did/won before they won championships.  All I did was answer that:  they did way more to prove themselves than Love has done so far.  It's not even close.

It's hard to prove yourself when, at times, you've been saddled with historically bad teammates.

That was back in 2011 -- I'd be interested to see those numbers run against last year.

http://wagesofwins.com/2014/05/23/kevin-love-needs-to-improve-his-teammate-acquisition-skills-not-his-leadership/

Here is a similar post he just made.

[D.o.s.]

Those Wages guys really love their pet stat, don't they.

TP for the link Faf.

"If we compare the players at the same point in their careers, I think the numbers say Love carried his teammates more."

Carried them where, exactly? To the Loss column? 

[LooseCannon]

Those Wages guys really love their pet stat, don't they.

As pet stats go, it's much better than relying on something idiotic like PER.

[D.o.s.]

Those Wages guys really love their pet stat, don't they.

As pet stats go, it's much better than relying on something idiotic like PER.

Are you saying that Hollinger was fiscally incentivized to make up a nonsense stat in order to  drum up page hits, and that it's still used by ESPN only because he was working for them at the time?

Sir I don't believe it.