So Wyc Grousbeck and Danny Ainge pretty much confirmed we're getting Kevin Love

[djbilly33]

Is it possible and if so would this team even be successful?  Keep Rondo, somehow trade for Love (maybe 17th pick, Sully and KO), sign Melo and draft Vonleh with the 6th pick.  Next year come back with:

Rondo 12 mil
Green 9 mil
Melo 14 mil
Love 14 mil
Vonleh rook contract

Whoever we can fill on the bench. Thoughts?

[Roy H.]

All I was saying is their defense is close enough to call it a wash Faf, not that the Warriors need a better defense or that it was a problem.

I don't think its a wash myself, but either way the fact that Love is a much better rebounder and offensive player would be huge for the Warriors.

David Lee consistently for his career has hurt his team on the glass despite "getting his", similar to Javale McGee. Love's teams when he's on the court is basically a lock for the rebounding advantage.

Additionally spacing from a PF to the 3 point line is a lot more valuable than Lee's range. Love also draws more fouls and turns it over less.

Are Love's advantages over Lee (which also include superior passing) enough to off-set the loss of Thompson, a versatile two-way player who also stretches the floor?

I think so, easily.

Klay Thompson is a solid player, but he's not a great offensive player despite his excellent shooting nor is he a great defender. He can defend 1-3, but he's no elite at it and they already have Iggy.

If they can keep Barnes they already have a replacement at the wing. Plus the Warriors are at their best with a 4 who can shoot 3s. That's been true for the past two years, and Love fits that need perfectly. Gives them more flexibility at the SG/SF position.

I think I agree, if Barnes can give Golden State 85% of what Thompson brings.  That seemed like a given Barnes' rookie year, but Barnes left a lot to be desired last season.

[Fafnir]

All I was saying is their defense is close enough to call it a wash Faf, not that the Warriors need a better defense or that it was a problem.

I don't think its a wash myself, but either way the fact that Love is a much better rebounder and offensive player would be huge for the Warriors.

David Lee consistently for his career has hurt his team on the glass despite "getting his", similar to Javale McGee. Love's teams when he's on the court is basically a lock for the rebounding advantage.

Additionally spacing from a PF to the 3 point line is a lot more valuable than Lee's range. Love also draws more fouls and turns it over less.

Are Love's advantages over Lee (which also include superior passing) enough to off-set the loss of Thompson, a versatile two-way player who also stretches the floor?

I think so, easily.

Klay Thompson is a solid player, but he's not a great offensive player despite his excellent shooting nor is he a great defender. He can defend 1-3, but he's no elite at it and they already have Iggy.

If they can keep Barnes they already have a replacement at the wing. Plus the Warriors are at their best with a 4 who can shoot 3s. That's been true for the past two years, and Love fits that need perfectly. Gives them more flexibility at the SG/SF position.

I think I agree, if Barnes can give Golden State 85% of what Thompson brings.  That seemed like a given Barnes' rookie year, but Barnes left a lot to be desired last season.

Even if he can't Green can probably give them 50% to 75%. Then they can use their MLE to paper over the rest.

I think getting a Curry/Love core locked in at their current ages is too good an opportunity. Especially since Thompson is almost certainly going to demand more money than Curry's bargain deal.

[mgent]

All I was saying is their defense is close enough to call it a wash Faf, not that the Warriors need a better defense or that it was a problem.

I don't think its a wash myself, but either way the fact that Love is a much better rebounder and offensive player would be huge for the Warriors.

David Lee consistently for his career has hurt his team on the glass despite "getting his", similar to Javale McGee. Love's teams when he's on the court is basically a lock for the rebounding advantage.

Additionally spacing from a PF to the 3 point line is a lot more valuable than Lee's range. Love also draws more fouls and turns it over less.

Yes, Love is a better player.  Production had nothing to do with what I was saying, but nonetheless we've gotten that out of the way.

Now, where are all these results Love has gotten that is causing people to believe he's doing significantly more on defense than Lee?  I don't see either making defensive plays.  I understand the need for people to rank players in their head, but just because Love isn't the worst defensive PF in the league doesn't mean he's doing a lot as the second worst defensive PF in the league.

If I was going to make an argument for the trade, I would absolutely talk about production in those areas Faf.  But mentioning defense as an argument point is just mind-boggling to me.

And I'll say it again:  the 4 feet of spacing between Love's 3 pointer and Lee's 18-20 footer is pretty meaningless when you're losing the second best 3 point shooter in the league.

[mgent]

I think getting a Curry/Love core locked in at their current ages is too good an opportunity. Especially since Thompson is almost certainly going to demand more money than Curry's bargain deal.

I can partially agree with this.

If you take Barnes out of the trade, I still don't GSW has gotten any better.  However, they're probably in a better position to get a 3rd star in the future.

[Fafnir]

I think getting a Curry/Love core locked in at their current ages is too good an opportunity. Especially since Thompson is almost certainly going to demand more money than Curry's bargain deal.

I can partially agree with this.

If you take Barnes out of the trade, I still don't GSW has gotten any better.  However, they're probably in a better position to get a 3rd star in the future.

I really think you're way to high on Klay Thompson.

He's a guy on track to be a borderline all-star. Love is on track to be on the all-nba team fixture and a borderline MVP candidate.

Very much shades of "can't give up Big Al/Eric Gordon/etc" for CP3/KG/etc

[crimson_stallion]

A big part of me really hopes this doesn't happen. 

The Salary cap is going to be just over 60 mil next season, and Kevin Love is guaranteed to get a max contract.  That means you'll be investing at least 1/4 of your salary cap into a guy who (IMHO) has way too many question marks on his resume.

As mentioned in the OP, Love is a major defensive liability who has shown zero leadership skills, has been an inefficient scorer his entire career, and has never won anything significant at the NBA level.  Also although he is still young, his attributes as a player (lack of size, lack of athleticism, etc) mean he has pretty limited upside and will probably never get much better than he is right now.

Some people say that we are better off having "A" star rather than "No" star.  I'm not so sure that's true.  What if acquiring this star does not make your team any better, but significantly worsens your salary cap situation (hence making it harder or you to make a play at a REAL star later down the track)?  In this case, signing a big contract guy like Love could prove to be the move that cripples your franchise for the next 5 seasons, leaving you in a half decade of mediocrity.

To be honest, I'd make a move for a 'good' big man with less star power (Josh Smith, Greg Monroe, Marcin Gortat) because one of those guys could be had on a much more reasonable contact, yet could arguably add just as many wins to the team.  Then I'd use some of that cap flexiblity saved to work at bringing a REAL star over via next year's star studded free agency. 

Otherwise I would try to get Love in a deal for Rondo so that we can bring in Love without sacrificing our future (picks, young talent, etc) and it wouldn't cripple your salary as much because you'd just be trading one future max contract player for another.

I honestly believe that if we have Rondo and Kevin Love on max contracts 2 seasons from now, we are going to be a stinker of a team. 

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

most teams that win championships have stars. just saying! 

[crimson_stallion]

I think getting a Curry/Love core locked in at their current ages is too good an opportunity. Especially since Thompson is almost certainly going to demand more money than Curry's bargain deal.

I can partially agree with this.

If you take Barnes out of the trade, I still don't GSW has gotten any better.  However, they're probably in a better position to get a 3rd star in the future.

I really think you're way to high on Klay Thompson.

He's a guy on track to be a borderline all-star. Love is on track to be on the all-nba team fixture and a borderline MVP candidate.

Very much shades of "can't give up Big Al/Eric Gordon/etc" for CP3/KG/etc

Not until one of the teams he's on actually wins something...

[crimson_stallion]

most teams that win championships have stars. just saying! 

Yes, but please understand that logical arguments don't always work the opposite way around. 

Most teams that win championships have stars, but most teams that have stars don't win championships.

Getting a star on your team doesn't necessarilly increase your chance of a title.  Getting the RIGHT star on your team increases your chance of a title.

[McHales Pits]

most teams that win championships have stars. just saying! 

Yes, but please understand that logical arguments don't always work the opposite way around. 

Most teams that win championships have stars, but most teams that have stars don't win championships.

Getting a star on your team doesn't necessarilly increase your chance of a title.  Getting the RIGHT star on your team increases your chance of a title.

What did Garnett, Allen, and Pierce win before they joined up?

What did LeBron win before he went to Miami?

Point blank: Winning basketball teams have talent. Getting the right talented pieces to complement eachother leads to Championships. Right now the Celtics don't have enough talent. Love helps that.

[loco_91]

There's one piece of news here, and it is that an agreement to an extension won't be needed. I do think it's worth the risk: we'll make the playoffs in the weak east, and Love will come to love boston the same way that so many stars have.

Of course, the price has to reflect the risk. I imagine that if Love won't agree to anything with us, he also won't agree to anything with any team that can offer close to Ainge's max bid (given his comments, it sounds like it might be high). Thus, the risk of Love walking will be priced in to his trade value.

[michael 26]

Good to know, I just hope that we can get Love to sign an extension, because if not this won't benefit us at all.

[mgent]

http://forums.celticsblog.com/Themes/celtic/images/bbc/orderlist.gif

What did Garnett, Allen, and Pierce win before they joined up?

What did LeBron win before he went to Miami?

Point blank: Winning basketball teams have talent. Getting the right talented pieces to complement eachother leads to Championships. Right now the Celtics don't have enough talent. Love helps that.

Um, a lot...........

MVPs, playoff series...........stuff like that.

Get real.

KG led his team by himself to the playoffs 8 years in a row.  That's 47 playoff games he was already in.  Averaged 22-13-5-2-1. 

Ray was in the playoffs 4 times as the best player on 2 different teams.  37 games.  Averaged 25-5-5.

Pierce was in the playoffs 4 times and played 37 full games as well.  Averaged 21-7-4 while getting to the line 9 times per game.

LeBron played in 71 playoff games before going to Heat, 5 consecutive years out of his 7 years in the league.  29-8-7 for 71 playoff games, all younger than Love is CURRENTLY.

Your point is completely lost on me.  How does Kevin Love compare at all to these players?  No playoff contender is going to blow up their team for a loser, he's nowhere even close to the players you listed.

When those big 3s formed, every basketball fan knew Boston and Miami were guaranteed to start winning championships.  No one is going to say that about a Kevin Love big 3, outside of Celticsblog apparently where Love is already an MVP.  Do people really not understand how much easier it is to get stats on one of the worst teams in the league? 

[McHales Pits]

What did Garnett, Allen, and Pierce win before they joined up?

What did LeBron win before he went to Miami?

Point blank: Winning basketball teams have talent. Getting the right talented pieces to complement eachother leads to Championships. Right now the Celtics don't have enough talent. Love helps that.

Um, a lot...........

MVPs, playoff series...........stuff like that.

Get real.

KG led his team by himself to the playoffs 8 years in a row.  That's 47 playoff games he was already in.  Averaged 22-13-5-2-1. 

Ray was in the playoffs 4 times as the best player on 2 different teams.  37 games.  Averaged 25-5-5.

Pierce was in the playoffs 4 times and played 37 full games as well.  Averaged 21-7-4 while getting to the line 9 times per game.

LeBron played in 71 playoff games before going to Heat, 5 consecutive years out of his 7 years in the league.  All of this was done while he was younger than Love is NOW.

Your point is completely lost on me.  How does Kevin Love compare at all to these players?  No playoff contender is going to blow up their team for a loser, he's nowhere even close to the players you listed.

When those big 3s formed, every basketball fan knew Boston and Miami were guaranteed to start winning championships.  No one is going to say that about a Kevin Love big 3, outside of Celticsblog apparently where Love is already an MVP.  Do people really not understand how much easier it is to get stats on one of the worst teams in the league?

And if all that is important are championships, then what are MVPs, All-Star Appearances, and 1st Round Playoff exits good for?

It isn't Love's fault that Minnesota whiffed on selecting Curry, Jefferson got hurt, or that he plays with a junk roster in the tough Western conference.

Love is a Top-10 or Top-15 NBA player today as we speak. I wouldn't exactly call him a stat padder, either, considering that he is one of the most efficient players in the entire association (3rd in PER). He fights for 2nd chance points on the offensive glass, he ends opponent's offensive possessions with defensive boards, he turns defense into offense with outlet passes, he scores efficiently from the most valued spots on the floor (at the rim, at the free throw lines, and from 3). You can't tell me that you think the Cs would be worse off with Love on the roster than without him...

Just because he hasn't lugged the anchor that is Minnesota's junk roster to a 1st Round playoff exit - like all those other players did at one point in their careers - doesn't mean he is a bad player or a player you can't build around. I assure you Love can be apart of a winning team.