GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014-15 thread: Yahoo league is live!

[Eja117]

agree with all that but very strongly disagree with your 2nd point, which is another philosophical issue.

Durant. He's great. But his career is half done. Davis. He's great. His career is just starting.

This is like me trading two Durant's, but instead of at the same time it's end to end. It's like me saying "I'll give you a Durant, but when he's done I'll give you another one."

Suddenly the trade makes a tad more sense. That's just how I see it.

Wait what? I hope that wasn't the line you used on Jay? Durant is four years older than Davis. In no scenario does that gap equal a second career. He's also got durability issues that Durant doesn't have. I'm more comfortable working with actual numbers, such as 21 and 25.

Yeah i'm not sure where "2 Durants" came from... isn't there a band named that? I think that's trying to sell this too hard

I think all this comes from Y! message boards last season where Eja had posted that if you want Davis, make a strong offer....like two KDs or two LeBrons. And if recall correctly, one of the GMs had replied something like "Eja, slap yourself twice and don't ever make me an offer". I could be wrong.

That is true that there was some banter kinda like that last year.
I admit when I had him in points I got so many offers for Davis that I didn't like that I started keeping a spreadsheet that I still have of all the offers.  Then I think when I did sell I actually sold too low.

[fairweatherfan]

Ok. I'm gonna back off this comparison. My only contention here is Davis is going to be playing for several years after Durant. Not only that but look at the careers of bigs vs wings.

Pierce is largely done at 36. Maybe even 35. Duncan is like 38 or 39. Shaq played till 40. Granted he wasn't so great at 39 but still. Dirk is looking great.  When a wing loses his speed it's a very different scenario.

Durant basically is a big man who plays wing - he's practically 7 foot (so is Dirk, not coincidentally).  Speed'll be important, but like Dirk his main skill is shooting and he'll be able to shoot over most of the league til the day he retires.


Thanks Champ, I wasn't gonna be the one to go there.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

[ChampKind]

Jay just happened to be the guy. I was very surprised by his aggressiveness. Came fast and came hard.

Phrasing.

[barefacedmonk]

But I agree with GC. Blowing it all up right away is definitely an ill advised move, but I just didn't feel it was my place to advise the guy. I tried to beat him off with a stick (no snickering) and he just wouldn't budge. Knew what he wanted. Made me an offer I couldn't refuse. There was no way I could tell him "Well that's just not a fair offer."

Appreciate the candor EJA. But for myself it's not you I'm waiting to hear from, it's the dead in the water guy. I do agree that it's not your place to talk someone off the ledge, but I also hope you understand that it's up to all of us to work to maintain the integrity of the league long term (cue Champkind's laughter). I suspect you knew when you accepted the deal that you'd be creating some controversy and skirting a veto.

Also, minor point, but Kevin Durant is the best player in fantasy basketball and it isn't even close yet.

I agree with all that but very strongly disagree with your 2nd point, which is another philosophical issue.

Durant. He's great. But his career is half done. Davis. He's great. His career is just starting.

This is like me trading two Durant's, but instead of at the same time it's end to end. It's like me saying "I'll give you a Durant, but when he's done I'll give you another one."

Suddenly the trade makes a tad more sense. That's just how I see it.

Pierce is largely done at 36. Maybe even 35. Duncan is like 38 or 39. Shaq played till 40. Granted he wasn't so great at 39 but still. Dirk is looking great.  When a wing loses his speed it's a very different scenario.

Yao Ming says Hi

[hpantazo]

A few point regarding this deal and the league in general:

1) Eja took advantage of a new GM, there is no way around it. Arguing that the trade is fair or equal is absurd.

2) The new GM wanted to be taken advantage of, there is no reason to suspect collusion or anything of the sort.

3) Eja smartly conducted this during the offseason, thus circumventing a veto vote through yahoo.There seems to be no other mechanism in place to veto deals at this part of the offseason, and if there is, so few people know about it that it will never happen.

4) This pattern happens every year in both leagues, it's nothing new.

5) We've discussed this over and over again, and just voted regarding putting rules in place (2 month moratorium on new GMs) to prevent this in the future, and it got handily rejected, implying that GMs for the most part want to be able to take advantage of new GMs, so in that case no one can really complain. I was in support of the 2 month moratorium, but it got killed. I can't blame Eja for the "if you can't beat them, join them approach".

6) the fact that jay hasn't shown up to defend his trade is alarming

[barefacedmonk]

Eja, its clear in your opinion Davis = TWO Durants. The fact that you agreed to pull the trigger on this trade is indicative that you knew you were getting a lot more than you'd hoped for.

I think people are waiting to hear from the other GM. Not the one who came out rich.

[Eja117]

But I agree with GC. Blowing it all up right away is definitely an ill advised move, but I just didn't feel it was my place to advise the guy. I tried to beat him off with a stick (no snickering) and he just wouldn't budge. Knew what he wanted. Made me an offer I couldn't refuse. There was no way I could tell him "Well that's just not a fair offer."

Appreciate the candor EJA. But for myself it's not you I'm waiting to hear from, it's the dead in the water guy. I do agree that it's not your place to talk someone off the ledge, but I also hope you understand that it's up to all of us to work to maintain the integrity of the league long term (cue Champkind's laughter). I suspect you knew when you accepted the deal that you'd be creating some controversy and skirting a veto.

Also, minor point, but Kevin Durant is the best player in fantasy basketball and it isn't even close yet.

I agree with all that but very strongly disagree with your 2nd point, which is another philosophical issue.

Durant. He's great. But his career is half done. Davis. He's great. His career is just starting.

This is like me trading two Durant's, but instead of at the same time it's end to end. It's like me saying "I'll give you a Durant, but when he's done I'll give you another one."

Suddenly the trade makes a tad more sense. That's just how I see it.

Pierce is largely done at 36. Maybe even 35. Duncan is like 38 or 39. Shaq played till 40. Granted he wasn't so great at 39 but still. Dirk is looking great.  When a wing loses his speed it's a very different scenario.

Yao Ming says Hi

Well yeah, but so does Brandon Roy.

[hpantazo]

But I agree with GC. Blowing it all up right away is definitely an ill advised move, but I just didn't feel it was my place to advise the guy. I tried to beat him off with a stick (no snickering) and he just wouldn't budge. Knew what he wanted. Made me an offer I couldn't refuse. There was no way I could tell him "Well that's just not a fair offer."

Appreciate the candor EJA. But for myself it's not you I'm waiting to hear from, it's the dead in the water guy. I do agree that it's not your place to talk someone off the ledge, but I also hope you understand that it's up to all of us to work to maintain the integrity of the league long term (cue Champkind's laughter). I suspect you knew when you accepted the deal that you'd be creating some controversy and skirting a veto.

Also, minor point, but Kevin Durant is the best player in fantasy basketball and it isn't even close yet.

I agree with all that but very strongly disagree with your 2nd point, which is another philosophical issue.

Durant. He's great. But his career is half done. Davis. He's great. His career is just starting.

This is like me trading two Durant's, but instead of at the same time it's end to end. It's like me saying "I'll give you a Durant, but when he's done I'll give you another one."

Suddenly the trade makes a tad more sense. That's just how I see it.

Pierce is largely done at 36. Maybe even 35. Duncan is like 38 or 39. Shaq played till 40. Granted he wasn't so great at 39 but still. Dirk is looking great.  When a wing loses his speed it's a very different scenario.

Yao Ming says Hi

Well yeah, but so does Brandon Roy.

and Greg Oden, and Andrew Bynum, Sam Bowie, and Arvidas Sabonis, etc.

[barefacedmonk]

How many second round picks end up on the waiver wire by the cut-off date only to  be picked by a a vigilant GM a few years later (if those players show signs of production, ofcourse) ?

It depends on how many 2nd rounders WW has that year 

Very true.

I'll add Mk to that list as well.

[Eja117]

But I agree with GC. Blowing it all up right away is definitely an ill advised move, but I just didn't feel it was my place to advise the guy. I tried to beat him off with a stick (no snickering) and he just wouldn't budge. Knew what he wanted. Made me an offer I couldn't refuse. There was no way I could tell him "Well that's just not a fair offer."

Appreciate the candor EJA. But for myself it's not you I'm waiting to hear from, it's the dead in the water guy. I do agree that it's not your place to talk someone off the ledge, but I also hope you understand that it's up to all of us to work to maintain the integrity of the league long term (cue Champkind's laughter). I suspect you knew when you accepted the deal that you'd be creating some controversy and skirting a veto.

Also, minor point, but Kevin Durant is the best player in fantasy basketball and it isn't even close yet.

I agree with all that but very strongly disagree with your 2nd point, which is another philosophical issue.

Durant. He's great. But his career is half done. Davis. He's great. His career is just starting.

This is like me trading two Durant's, but instead of at the same time it's end to end. It's like me saying "I'll give you a Durant, but when he's done I'll give you another one."

Suddenly the trade makes a tad more sense. That's just how I see it.

Pierce is largely done at 36. Maybe even 35. Duncan is like 38 or 39. Shaq played till 40. Granted he wasn't so great at 39 but still. Dirk is looking great.  When a wing loses his speed it's a very different scenario.

Yao Ming says Hi

Well yeah, but so does Brandon Roy.

and Greg Oden, and Andrew Bynum, Sam Bowie, and Arvidas Sabonis, etc.

Sabonis played till he was 38 and both he and Yao were absolutely played out by communist regimes. Plus these guys got hurt right away.  Larry Bird says hi?

[barefacedmonk]

A few point regarding this deal and the league in general:
(5) We've discussed this over and over again, and just voted regarding putting rules in place (2 month moratorium on new GMs) to prevent this in the future, and it got handily rejected, implying that GMs for the most part want to be able to take advantage of new GMs, so in that case no one can really complain. I was in support of the 2 month moratorium, but it got killed. I can't blame Eja for the "if you can't beat them, join them approach".

Jayhova had also publicly opposed that amendment. 

[hpantazo]

But I agree with GC. Blowing it all up right away is definitely an ill advised move, but I just didn't feel it was my place to advise the guy. I tried to beat him off with a stick (no snickering) and he just wouldn't budge. Knew what he wanted. Made me an offer I couldn't refuse. There was no way I could tell him "Well that's just not a fair offer."

Appreciate the candor EJA. But for myself it's not you I'm waiting to hear from, it's the dead in the water guy. I do agree that it's not your place to talk someone off the ledge, but I also hope you understand that it's up to all of us to work to maintain the integrity of the league long term (cue Champkind's laughter). I suspect you knew when you accepted the deal that you'd be creating some controversy and skirting a veto.

Also, minor point, but Kevin Durant is the best player in fantasy basketball and it isn't even close yet.

I agree with all that but very strongly disagree with your 2nd point, which is another philosophical issue.

Durant. He's great. But his career is half done. Davis. He's great. His career is just starting.

This is like me trading two Durant's, but instead of at the same time it's end to end. It's like me saying "I'll give you a Durant, but when he's done I'll give you another one."

Suddenly the trade makes a tad more sense. That's just how I see it.

Pierce is largely done at 36. Maybe even 35. Duncan is like 38 or 39. Shaq played till 40. Granted he wasn't so great at 39 but still. Dirk is looking great.  When a wing loses his speed it's a very different scenario.

Yao Ming says Hi

Well yeah, but so does Brandon Roy.

and Greg Oden, and Andrew Bynum, Sam Bowie, and Arvidas Sabonis, etc.

Sabonis played till he was 36 and both he and Yao were absolutely played out by communist regimes. Plus these guys got hurt right away.  Larry Bird says hi?

Yeah, but Sabonis was a shell of his former self for most of his career because of his body falling apart. What about Bynum and Oden and Bowie? Those guys barely even played. When you are big, you put more stress on the knees and back and feet than they are designed to handle. Hello Brook Lopez.

[Eja117]

But I agree with GC. Blowing it all up right away is definitely an ill advised move, but I just didn't feel it was my place to advise the guy. I tried to beat him off with a stick (no snickering) and he just wouldn't budge. Knew what he wanted. Made me an offer I couldn't refuse. There was no way I could tell him "Well that's just not a fair offer."

Appreciate the candor EJA. But for myself it's not you I'm waiting to hear from, it's the dead in the water guy. I do agree that it's not your place to talk someone off the ledge, but I also hope you understand that it's up to all of us to work to maintain the integrity of the league long term (cue Champkind's laughter). I suspect you knew when you accepted the deal that you'd be creating some controversy and skirting a veto.

Also, minor point, but Kevin Durant is the best player in fantasy basketball and it isn't even close yet.

I agree with all that but very strongly disagree with your 2nd point, which is another philosophical issue.

Durant. He's great. But his career is half done. Davis. He's great. His career is just starting.

This is like me trading two Durant's, but instead of at the same time it's end to end. It's like me saying "I'll give you a Durant, but when he's done I'll give you another one."

Suddenly the trade makes a tad more sense. That's just how I see it.

Pierce is largely done at 36. Maybe even 35. Duncan is like 38 or 39. Shaq played till 40. Granted he wasn't so great at 39 but still. Dirk is looking great.  When a wing loses his speed it's a very different scenario.

Yao Ming says Hi

Well yeah, but so does Brandon Roy.

and Greg Oden, and Andrew Bynum, Sam Bowie, and Arvidas Sabonis, etc.

Sabonis played till he was 36 and both he and Yao were absolutely played out by communist regimes. Plus these guys got hurt right away.  Larry Bird says hi?

Yeah, but Sabonis was a shell of his former self for most of his career because of his body falling apart. What about Bynum and Oden and Bowie? Those guys barely even played.

I don't know what to say. I think Anthony Davis is far more comparable to Duncan or KG than to any of these guys.
And I think KD is far more comparable to a long playing wing than anyone I mentioned.

[hpantazo]

A few point regarding this deal and the league in general:
(5) We've discussed this over and over again, and just voted regarding putting rules in place (2 month moratorium on new GMs) to prevent this in the future, and it got handily rejected, implying that GMs for the most part want to be able to take advantage of new GMs, so in that case no one can really complain. I was in support of the 2 month moratorium, but it got killed. I can't blame Eja for the "if you can't beat them, join them approach".

Jayhova had also publicly opposed that amendment. 

If he's staying in the league long term, then he got what he deserved with this deal. If he's already bailing out, then it's pretty messed up.

[hpantazo]

But I agree with GC. Blowing it all up right away is definitely an ill advised move, but I just didn't feel it was my place to advise the guy. I tried to beat him off with a stick (no snickering) and he just wouldn't budge. Knew what he wanted. Made me an offer I couldn't refuse. There was no way I could tell him "Well that's just not a fair offer."

Appreciate the candor EJA. But for myself it's not you I'm waiting to hear from, it's the dead in the water guy. I do agree that it's not your place to talk someone off the ledge, but I also hope you understand that it's up to all of us to work to maintain the integrity of the league long term (cue Champkind's laughter). I suspect you knew when you accepted the deal that you'd be creating some controversy and skirting a veto.

Also, minor point, but Kevin Durant is the best player in fantasy basketball and it isn't even close yet.

I agree with all that but very strongly disagree with your 2nd point, which is another philosophical issue.

Durant. He's great. But his career is half done. Davis. He's great. His career is just starting.

This is like me trading two Durant's, but instead of at the same time it's end to end. It's like me saying "I'll give you a Durant, but when he's done I'll give you another one."

Suddenly the trade makes a tad more sense. That's just how I see it.

Pierce is largely done at 36. Maybe even 35. Duncan is like 38 or 39. Shaq played till 40. Granted he wasn't so great at 39 but still. Dirk is looking great.  When a wing loses his speed it's a very different scenario.

Yao Ming says Hi

Well yeah, but so does Brandon Roy.

and Greg Oden, and Andrew Bynum, Sam Bowie, and Arvidas Sabonis, etc.

Sabonis played till he was 36 and both he and Yao were absolutely played out by communist regimes. Plus these guys got hurt right away.  Larry Bird says hi?

Yeah, but Sabonis was a shell of his former self for most of his career because of his body falling apart. What about Bynum and Oden and Bowie? Those guys barely even played.

I don't know what to say. I think Anthony Davis is far more comparable to Duncan than to any of these guys.
And I think KD is far more comparable to a long playing wing than anyone I mentioned.

Davis has already missed a fair amount of time due to inures his first few seasons. Maybe he holds up long term, but he hasn't been an iron horse or anything of the sort so far. Durant on the other hand has held up extremely well.