GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2014-15 thread: Yahoo league is live!

[hpantazo]

[Eja117]

But I agree with GC. Blowing it all up right away is definitely an ill advised move, but I just didn't feel it was my place to advise the guy. I tried to beat him off with a stick (no snickering) and he just wouldn't budge. Knew what he wanted. Made me an offer I couldn't refuse. There was no way I could tell him "Well that's just not a fair offer."

Appreciate the candor EJA. But for myself it's not you I'm waiting to hear from, it's the dead in the water guy. I do agree that it's not your place to talk someone off the ledge, but I also hope you understand that it's up to all of us to work to maintain the integrity of the league long term (cue Champkind's laughter). I suspect you knew when you accepted the deal that you'd be creating some controversy and skirting a veto.

Also, minor point, but Kevin Durant is the best player in fantasy basketball and it isn't even close yet.

I agree with all that but very strongly disagree with your 2nd point, which is another philosophical issue.

Durant. He's great. But his career is half done. Davis. He's great. His career is just starting.

This is like me trading two Durant's, but instead of at the same time it's end to end. It's like me saying "I'll give you a Durant, but when he's done I'll give you another one."

Suddenly the trade makes a tad more sense. That's just how I see it.

Pierce is largely done at 36. Maybe even 35. Duncan is like 38 or 39. Shaq played till 40. Granted he wasn't so great at 39 but still. Dirk is looking great.  When a wing loses his speed it's a very different scenario.

Yao Ming says Hi

Well yeah, but so does Brandon Roy.

and Greg Oden, and Andrew Bynum, Sam Bowie, and Arvidas Sabonis, etc.

Sabonis played till he was 36 and both he and Yao were absolutely played out by communist regimes. Plus these guys got hurt right away.  Larry Bird says hi?

Yeah, but Sabonis was a shell of his former self for most of his career because of his body falling apart. What about Bynum and Oden and Bowie? Those guys barely even played.

I don't know what to say. I think Anthony Davis is far more comparable to Duncan than to any of these guys.
And I think KD is far more comparable to a long playing wing than anyone I mentioned.

Davis has already missed a fair amount of time due to inures his first few seasons. Maybe he holds up long term, but he hasn't been an iron horse or anything of the sort so far. Durant on the other hand has held up extremely well.

I agree with that. I also think though that as he's getting stronger he's getting better and more durable.

[hpantazo]

But I agree with GC. Blowing it all up right away is definitely an ill advised move, but I just didn't feel it was my place to advise the guy. I tried to beat him off with a stick (no snickering) and he just wouldn't budge. Knew what he wanted. Made me an offer I couldn't refuse. There was no way I could tell him "Well that's just not a fair offer."

Appreciate the candor EJA. But for myself it's not you I'm waiting to hear from, it's the dead in the water guy. I do agree that it's not your place to talk someone off the ledge, but I also hope you understand that it's up to all of us to work to maintain the integrity of the league long term (cue Champkind's laughter). I suspect you knew when you accepted the deal that you'd be creating some controversy and skirting a veto.

Also, minor point, but Kevin Durant is the best player in fantasy basketball and it isn't even close yet.

I agree with all that but very strongly disagree with your 2nd point, which is another philosophical issue.

Durant. He's great. But his career is half done. Davis. He's great. His career is just starting.

This is like me trading two Durant's, but instead of at the same time it's end to end. It's like me saying "I'll give you a Durant, but when he's done I'll give you another one."

Suddenly the trade makes a tad more sense. That's just how I see it.

Pierce is largely done at 36. Maybe even 35. Duncan is like 38 or 39. Shaq played till 40. Granted he wasn't so great at 39 but still. Dirk is looking great.  When a wing loses his speed it's a very different scenario.

Yao Ming says Hi

Well yeah, but so does Brandon Roy.

and Greg Oden, and Andrew Bynum, Sam Bowie, and Arvidas Sabonis, etc.

Sabonis played till he was 36 and both he and Yao were absolutely played out by communist regimes. Plus these guys got hurt right away.  Larry Bird says hi?

Yeah, but Sabonis was a shell of his former self for most of his career because of his body falling apart. What about Bynum and Oden and Bowie? Those guys barely even played.

I don't know what to say. I think Anthony Davis is far more comparable to Duncan than to any of these guys.
And I think KD is far more comparable to a long playing wing than anyone I mentioned.

Davis has already missed a fair amount of time due to inures his first few seasons. Maybe he holds up long term, but he hasn't been an iron horse or anything of the sort so far. Durant on the other hand has held up extremely well.

I agree with that. I also think though that as he's getting stronger he's getting better and more durable.

I hope so. I really hope Davis, Drummond, and Embiid all hold up well long term, we've been robbed of great centers for a whole generation basically in the NBA.

[fairweatherfan]

3) Eja smartly conducted this during the offseason, thus circumventing a veto vote through yahoo.There seems to be no other mechanism in place to veto deals at this part of the offseason, and if there is, so few people know about it that it will never happen.

I'm not at all trying to open a can of worms, but I'm pretty sure offseason vetoes are done by PMing the commish and saying that you veto.

...now that I think about it, what if somebody wanted to veto a trade GC made in the offseason?  Maybe there should be a backup to tally the votes so people aren't worried about losing anonymity.

[Gainesville Celtic]

2) The new GM wanted to be taken advantage of, there is no reason to suspect collusion or anything of the sort.

Agree. I don't have any reason to suspect collusion.

3) Eja smartly conducted this during the offseason, thus circumventing a veto vote through yahoo.There seems to be no other mechanism in place to veto deals at this part of the offseason, and if there is, so few people know about it that it will never happen.

This is not true.

If a league member calls for a veto, I will put up a poll on Yahoo -- with it's anonymous voting -- leave it up for 24 hrs and we can vote on it.

If it means pushing the draft back until Friday or Monday I'd even consider doing that.

(also I don't think eja planned this either way...)

5) We've discussed this over and over again, and just voted regarding putting rules in place (2 month moratorium on new GMs) to prevent this in the future, and it got handily rejected, implying that GMs for the most part want to be able to take advantage of new GMs, so in that case no one can really complain. I was in support of the 2 month moratorium, but it got killed. I can't blame Eja for the "if you can't beat them, join them approach".

Not really true -- the amendment lost 9-6 and needed 11 votes.

2 more votes out of the 5 GMs who didn't vote and it would have passed. I generally think there's support for this amendment.

[Eja117]

 I agree with CG that there is generally more support for than against that amendment and it could be passed maybe during the season.

Also I wish jay would show up probably more than anyone. But I think it's pretty clear he's a quiet and busy guy. He's not the only one. The GM is busy. Somebody in the other league said they were leaving, then wasn't heard from, then came back. I don't think we should assume jay is leaving, but that he's just not super active like some of us.
I don't remember anyone saying he shouldn't be allowed in the league due to his history or anything.

[ChampKind]

I think you guys are making a lot of assumptions about eja (and jay) without hearing the entire story. Unless we hear otherwise, this was just two bored GMs hammering out a preseason trade.

[barefacedmonk]

Out of curiosity, Eja, did you trade Davis to Jayhova in the points league?

[Eja117]

As much as I hate to admit it GC is right that a veto could be on yahoo. It never happened before in an offseason that I know of so it's not really fun to be the first, but there's nothing saying it can't. My general rule of interpreting laws and constitutions of any sort is that everything not forbidden is permitted. Darn it all.
It's hard for me to construct a reason why the veto shouldn't be treated like any other during the season other than that we maybe haven't done it that way before, but I think you all know that I'm not the biggest defender of tradition for the sake of tradition. Although it is worth noting that once they started breaking traditions Tevye's whole society came crashing down.

I would think it would still be a 24 hour thing though, meaning 24 hours from when it was posted originally. Since that was voted down. Right?

[Eja117]

Out of curiosity, Eja, did you trade Davis to Jayhova in the points league?

Let me look at that....

OMG.....It was Brahma Bull. That's him right? Brahma is still there though. That was years ago. Not like he jumped ship. Brahma Bull....Dead Man's Hand. Who is that? Yeah. That's him.

[jgod213]

Wow lot of stuff going on here before a basketball is even bounced...

Just a quick 2-cents:

Unless Jay is absolutely resolute on seeing this deal and his team thru long-term, why not just amend the deal for (as was said by WW) the "good of the league."  Something like swapping out the 1st round pick that Jay is sending out with a 2nd round pick instead. 

I know that would be a tough pill to swallow for Eja, and I normally despise the idea of intervening in deals, but maybe if we allow Jay to keep that pick he'll be more intent on seeing his rebuild thru since it becomes a somewhat more viable path.

[Gainesville Celtic]

A few things here.

Talk of vetoes are never fun -- all 20 of us need to remain calm and work through the process. I need not remind folks of the rancor that occurred during the last veto.

I understand that some feel like vetoes should only happen in the case of collusion; others who think it's when trades are lopsided. I'd rather folks not lobby for votes either way. We're all adults who've probably long ago made up our mind on (a) that question and (b) the merits of this trade.

As much as I hate to admit it GC is right that a veto could be on yahoo. It never happened before in an offseason that I know of so it's not really fun to be the first, but there's nothing saying it can't. My general rule of interpreting laws and constitutions of any sort is that everything not forbidden is permitted. Darn it all.

It's hard for me to construct a reason why the veto shouldn't be treated like any other during the season other than that we maybe haven't done it that way before, but I think you all know that I'm not the biggest defender of tradition for the sake of tradition. Although it is worth noting that once they started breaking traditions Tevye's whole society came crashing down.

I would think it would still be a 24 hour thing though, meaning 24 hours from when it was posted originally. Since that was voted down. Right?

In season there's a review period of 1 day that is triggered in Yahoo! by the setting deteremined by the constitution. (meaning it's not up to me to overrsee a review). GMs also get an email from Yahoo! when trades go down --- something they don't get during the offseason.

If someone calls for a veto -- and if you're going to do that it needs to be by this evening -- I'll leave the vote open 24 hours. I posted the trade early as a courtesy (and because I anticipated some discussion).

I'm asking for everyone's patience here in doing the best we can given the current system that is fair and works to the spirit of the constitution.

[The Walker Wiggle]

How many second round picks end up on the waiver wire by the cut-off date only to  be picked by a a vigilant GM a few years later (if those players show signs of production, ofcourse) ?

It depends on how many 2nd rounders WW has that year 

A hit, a very palpable hit! (I also cut 1st rounders.)

[The Walker Wiggle]

Durant is four years older than Davis. In no scenario does that gap equal a second career. He's also got durability issues that Durant doesn't have.

I'm more comfortable working with actual numbers, such as 21 and 25. So argue this, Davis was  the 4th most productive player last season per game, eighth overall (since he again failed to play 70 games). He's not even a lock to be the second most valuable fantasy player next year.

I was under the impression Davis is like 20 and Durant is like 27ish. Like Durant has had a 7 year career out of 14 and Davis has had a two year career out of 14.  No?

"-Ish?" These guys aren't Dikembe Mutumbo; they have U.S. birth certificates. I told you their ages. Anthony Davis is 21 and KD is 25.

[Gainesville Celtic]

Wow lot of stuff going on here before a basketball is even bounced...

Just a quick 2-cents:

Unless Jay is absolutely resolute on seeing this deal and his team thru long-term, why not just amend the deal for (as was said by WW) the "good of the league."  Something like swapping out the 1st round pick that Jay is sending out with a 2nd round pick instead. 

I know that would be a tough pill to swallow for Eja, and I normally despise the idea of intervening in deals, but maybe if we allow Jay to keep that pick he'll be more intent on seeing his rebuild thru since it becomes a somewhat more viable path.

I have to say that I agree with this suggestion as a fellow GM.

I too am loathe to micromanage teams, but am concerned -- I think rightly so even if I'm eventually proven wrong -- about the possibility of a new owner's team being stripped bare increasing the likelihood of him leaving or sliding into inactivity.