Love Vs McDermott

[NorthernLightning]

He'll have more room to get open in the NBA. His sealing technique is excellent and that will translate.

I also think his fitness/quickness/explosiveness has jumped up a level since the season ended. Working on his weaknesses as hard as anybody.

[Galeto]

Speaking of records, that reminds me of Doug McDermott

I'm a big fan of a lot of guys outside the top 4.

Smart, Gordon, Nurkic, Anderson, Saric, TJ Warren, Porzingis, and McDermott.

I hope to end up with two of them.

But one thing I realize is that athleticism is easier to replace than all time caliber skill.

I looove Aaron Gordon, but there are more great athletes available late in the draft and the DLeague than there are legendary scorers with complete arsenals.

And part of why I love Gordon so much is his outstanding motor, you can count on him to produce to the max every minute he is on the floor, up to 40+ mpg.

But the thing is, McDermott has the same non-stop motor, and he'll be even more exhausting for defenses because he is always in motion and MUST be accounted for at all times.

Another big reason I like Aaron Gordon is his outstanding work ethic and intangibles. Well, ... McDermott has the same outstanding work ethic and intangibles.

And when you get down to it, the gap between Gordon and McDermott's athleticism is smaller than the gap between McDermott and Gordon's skills.

McDermott at worst will be a slightly below average on ball defender, but an above average team defender, so he's probably better than Melo defending 3s or Love defending 4s, or at least not worse.

What is your faith on his defense based on?  Admittedly I didn't watch all his games but in the ones I watched, he played zero defense, individual or team.  He never slid his feet to cut of penetration or to protect the paint.  He saved almost all his energy for offense.  There is no way he's going to be better than Melo defending 3s because Melo is actually good defending them (his team defense is another matter).  At worst, McDermott is an atrocious defender who's going to have to be willing to take charges to salvage any defensive value.

I don't even know how he's going to be an above average team defender.  One, he's not all that good of a rebounder.  At small forward, that aspect of his game seems unlikely to create much value.  He's definitely not going to be a rim protector in the air; hopefully he can take charges.  He doesn't have the speed to buzz around the court and be dangerous in passing lanes, never mind that statistically, his steal rate was basically zero.  Could he be mentally engaged defensively?  Yes certainly but he still has to be able to do tangible things to be a good help defender and that's up in the air.  I certainly wouldn't be so confident in pegging him as above average team defender. 

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I was with you until it didn't say Sully. I don't think we need Love because Sully will be our Love. Why give up premium picks AND KO or Sully for Love? Okay, I get it if we don't have to give up one of them but I don't if we do. If we can somehow give up a guy like Bass and maybe Bogans and the top (3) pick then we're talking.


I am with you in the minority though, I don't think we should sell the farm for Love and also wind up paying him 20m a season on top of it. Personally, I would rather a guy give us 15/8 but can defend better than Love... I think Sully can give more than that but I would be happy with those numbers but he has to get better defensively.


I hope we lose Love to Lakers or some team then be forced to do something else. Love & KoMe together doesn't worry me at all!


Also, I like McDermott at 17 but he may not be there.

[D.o.s.]

Mythical beast. Hmm. Nope, pretty sure it happened, and that one guy shot the ball at a time. No group 3 point shots that I'm aware of.

One thing about great shooters is they tend to give everybody else more confidence with their shot. When we had Ray Allen, everybody shot will a little more swagger. Pierce never went through a month + long funk like he did when Ray left, in the time leading up to Rondo's injury.

Everybody seems to shoot better when playing with an amazing shooter. And two or three great/good shooters can feed off of each other, like the Creighton guys or the UCLA guys, or the Splash Bros, or Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, or Reggie Miller and Chuck Person, Or McDermott, KO, along with inspired teammates like Bradley and Sully. Shooting well is contagious, and the opposite tends to hold true.

Having a go-to consistent confidence boosting shooter like Doug goes a long way.

You should read Faf's post for a clue as to what I was talking about:

It's got to be noted that Creighton's offense was a mythical beast that essentially puts all of McDermott's college numbers in doubt. That team was crazy (in a good way) when it came to chucking threes -- which are long twos in the NBA, lest we forget.

Their offense was interesting, it basically was a 4 out 1 in offense with McDermott as their Dwight Howard.

Only he'd also pop out for 3s and take fast break trailer threes too. Their problem was Manigat couldn't hit a shot to save the team late in the year and once Gibbs hurt his knee they had only one person capable of dribble penetration.

His post game is pretty good, but it was only effective because they put small guys on him to avoid giving up 3s. I don't anticipate it having much success in the NBA if teams just guard him like they would most SFs. He has real problem getting the dang ball though if aggressively denied.

[Celtics4ever]

I don't think we need Love because Sully will be our Love.

Sully isn't Love, the shooting range is just not there.  Although he thought he was Kyle Korver at times.   Sully isn't even Love Lite.

[Galeto]

I still can't believe that Northernlightning believes that AT WORST, McDermott equals out to an average, nay slightly above above defender after his above average team defense and SLIGHTLY below average man defense is totaled. At worst, for a guy with defensive question marks?  What does his at best come out to? All-NBA defense?  Come on.

Take Larry Bird.  Great rebounder--tons of defensive value.  And while not the fleetest of foot, played with great anticipation to come up with a ton of steals.  I don't know his college steal numbers but I'd be surprised if they were as low as McDermott's.  I bet he was just as prolific stealing the ball in college as he was in the pros.  Meanwhile, McDermott had 34 steals total in college.  34.  Three of his four seasons, he didn't even crack double digits.  Steals can be deceiving but they're a component of team defense, just like charges taken, just like rebounds and McDermott doesn't rate highly in any of them.  What is he going to do on team defense to have above average value?  To say he is at worst an above average team defender is like comparing him to Kevin Love, Stephen Curry and Damian Lillard.

[NorthernLightning]

I still can't believe that Northernlightning believes that AT WORST, McDermott equals out to an average, nay slightly above above defender after his above average team defense and SLIGHTLY below average man defense is totaled. At worst, for a guy with defensive question marks?  What does his at best come out to? All-NBA defense?  Come on.

Take Larry Bird.  Great rebounder--tons of defensive value.  And while not the fleetest of foot, played with great anticipation to come up with a ton of steals.  I don't know his college steal numbers but I'd be surprised if they were as low as McDermott's.  I bet he was just as prolific stealing the ball in college as he was in the pros.  Meanwhile, McDermott had 34 steals total in college.  34.  Three of his four seasons, he didn't even crack double digits.  Steals can be deceiving but they're a component of team defense, just like charges taken, just like rebounds and McDermott doesn't rate highly in any of them.  What is he going to do on team defense to have above average value?  To say he is at worst an above average team defender is like comparing him to Kevin Love, Stephen Curry and Damian Lillard.

Okay, even if he ends up a below average defender overall, he won't be terrible. For one thing, he won't need to be in constant motion on offense every single play, and he'll have some post scoring help as well.

But the importance of hard work and intelligence on defense shouldn't be underestimated. McDermott plays sound position defense instead of chasing after steals like Rondo. There's a lot to be said for that. Sure, McDermott probably wouldn't be great at getting steals if he tried, but as long as he is working hard he is going to be fine, and that includes making the proper rotations in help defense.

I'd worry much more about Jabari's defense, because he has far less agility than McDermott, and he carries an extra 20 pounds and rising.

[D.o.s.]

Jabari's still a better prospect than McDermott, though. No need to denigrate him because not everyone's on board with your personal draft favorite.

[NorthernLightning]

If Damion Lillard had been compared to Stephen Curry or Kyrie Irving before his draft, after putting up huge numbers in college for 4 years, he probably wouldn't have been passed over for Michael Kidd Gilchrist and Thomas Robinson, and perhaps Beal and Waiters as well.

If Kevin Love had been compared to Nowitzki before his draft, he probably wouldn't have been passed over for Beasley and OJ Mayo.

If Stephen Curry had been compared to a Tony Parker/Ray Allen hybrid, he probably wouldn't have been passed over for Thabeet, Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio, and Johnny Flynn.

The price for a known quantity like Kevin Love is just about every asset we have, and all future flexibility. And Love is exactly the type to sign a $60 million contract and start moping and complaining at the first hint of trouble, like he did right after signing his last deal and ever since.

The price of getting a future star is just one smart pick, and we'll have them for four years on a cheap contract, and can keep growing as a team at a healthy pace with as much flexibility as possible.

[NorthernLightning]

Jabari's still a better prospect than McDermott, though. No need to denigrate him because not everyone's on board with your personal draft favorite.

I'm not even sure of that. He got benched at least two times in college for being such a defensive liability, including his first round exit from the NCAA Tourney. He couldn't even stay on the court in his elimination game against Belmont. His defensive instincts are perhaps worse than his lateral foot speed, which is likely to get even slower with inevitable weight gain.

This is why Jabari wants to be a PF in the NBA, but his bully ball doesn't translate that great considering he's 6'8 in shoes at best.

[Fafnir]

McDermott can't defend. Even more troubling he never got any steals or blocks, hustle stats that rely on athleticism.

Offensively he protects as an elite offensive role player due to his size and shooting stroke. But he can't really dribble and will struggle to defend. His rebounding is also sub-par given that he won't be playing the 4/5 in the pros like he did in college.

That's why he's not a top lottery pick, too many weaknesses in how he projects to the NBA combined with his age. Its a lot easier to dominate in college when you're older than other NBA prospects.

[Fafnir]

Jabari's still a better prospect than McDermott, though. No need to denigrate him because not everyone's on board with your personal draft favorite.

I'm not even sure of that. He got benched at least two times in college for being such a defensive liability, including his first round exit from the NCAA Tourney. He couldn't even stay on the court in his elimination game against Belmont. His defensive instincts are perhaps worse than his lateral foot speed, which is likely to get even slower with inevitable weight gain.

This is why Jabari wants to be a PF in the NBA, but his bully ball doesn't translate that great considering he's 6'8 in shoes at best.

McDermott is slower than Jabari and all the weaknesses you list for Jabari are worse in McDermott.

Jabari had more blocks and steals in his one season than McDermott had in his CAREER in college. Coach K would have benched Doug too in that situation where they needed stops more than scores.

[NorthernLightning]

Nope, Parker is slower defensively. Once he gets going in one direction he is very slow to change directions laterally. I think a big part of it is mental reaction time, but being overweight for two years now doesn't help.

[D.o.s.]

Jabari's still a better prospect than McDermott, though. No need to denigrate him because not everyone's on board with your personal draft favorite.