The very fact that this Kevin Love rumor is even going on validates the tanking.

[Celtics39]

Not sure why anyone cares about validating or criticizing our performance this season.  We are what we are and that is a very bad team with a lot of potentially valuable assets.  Every one of us here wants DA to make moves that bring the C's to contential and we all want to see it happen sooner rather than later.   

To say "I was right" or "you were wrong" about tanking is meaningless.  We have assets to use to make this team better, and we all want to use them wisely.  Congrats to everyone who thought we should tank. Congrats to everyone who thought we shouldn't.  You are all correct.   

Now let's win us a lottery!

Why are people who thought we shouldn't tank right? Clearly tanking is already paying dividends.

[badshar]

Wrong. The only way the tanking gets validated is if we get Love and be contenders or if our draft pick this year pans out and we contend in the future. What's the use for tanking if we don't contend for a championship? None.

We have higher chance of contending in near future by tanking a year or two and then having great talent (either by drafting or trading for using pick) than losing in first round (and in rare cases, if we make it that far, then second round) every year.

[LilRip]

If the Celtics had barely made the playoffs, Ainge would still have a ton of draft picks to offer in a deal and Kevin Love would currently be viewed as the guy who could boost the team from playoff contender to title contender.  The Celtics having a high lottery pick didn't cause Kevin Love to be available.  He'd still be out there and Boston would be seen as one of the likely suitors.

  No kidding. We've got 8-9 first rounders over the next 5 years, the thought that we couldn't swing a deal without this year's pick is fairly ludicrous.

10 nickles doesn't equal a dollar. 

While I agree that a boatload of marginal late 1st rounders is theoretically nice... A top 5 pick is still significantly more valuable than a #15 pick.

For instance...

If you had to trade Rondo, would you rather trade him for a Top 5 pick in this draft... or 3-4 picks in the #17-25 range?

And if 3-4 picks in the #17-25 range = a Top 5 pick... we best be packaging those picks for a Top 5 pick

   You don't have any idea where the picks will end up, neither does the team that trades them, neither does the team that trades for them. Just look at how everyone's opinions of the Nets picks have changed over the last year, including the 2014 pick which is a number of spots better than you'd have predicted it would be at the start of the season. Not to mention we got KG without trading a top 5 pick...

We got KG because Ray Allen was here. And we got RA via the 5th pick. So...

[slamtheking]

My question is this: can't we get Love without giving up the lottery pick this year?

We can give them the 4 Brooklyn picks, the LAC pick, and 1 or 2 of our own draft picks, plus Sullinger. That's 6-7 1st round draft picks + Sullinger. Who the HELL can offer a better package than that?

no one's worth 6-7 unprotected 1st rounders and Sully.  no one.  no one player puts this franchise over the top, certainly not Kevin Love.  that kind of ridiculous overpayment would cripple our ability to pick up good cheap young talent. 

[greg683x]

If the Celtics had barely made the playoffs, Ainge would still have a ton of draft picks to offer in a deal and Kevin Love would currently be viewed as the guy who could boost the team from playoff contender to title contender.  The Celtics having a high lottery pick didn't cause Kevin Love to be available.  He'd still be out there and Boston would be seen as one of the likely suitors.

  No kidding. We've got 8-9 first rounders over the next 5 years, the thought that we couldn't swing a deal without this year's pick is fairly ludicrous.

10 nickles doesn't equal a dollar. 

While I agree that a boatload of marginal late 1st rounders is theoretically nice... A top 5 pick is still significantly more valuable than a #15 pick.

For instance...

If you had to trade Rondo, would you rather trade him for a Top 5 pick in this draft... or 3-4 picks in the #17-25 range?

And if 3-4 picks in the #17-25 range = a Top 5 pick... we best be packaging those picks for a Top 5 pick

   You don't have any idea where the picks will end up, neither does the team that trades them, neither does the team that trades for them. Just look at how everyone's opinions of the Nets picks have changed over the last year, including the 2014 pick which is a number of spots better than you'd have predicted it would be at the start of the season. Not to mention we got KG without trading a top 5 pick...

True.  But with the right trade a future Nets pick could also go from a mid first rounder to a late first rounder.  It's the great unknown at this point.  What we have now for the Wolves is the sure thing, a pick in the top 8 or higher.  Do you want the Ferrari??  Or whats in the mystery box??  it could be a check for a 80 million dollars or a coupon for a bag of dorritos at safeway.

The top 5 pick we traded for KG was Al Jefferson, who at the time was considered a possible franchise player.  We dont have a 21 year old PF that showed he could put up 20 and 10 on the reg to offer back.  Yeah we have Sullinger but hes only shown flashes, has been known to be injury prone, and is considered undersized.  Too many questions.

[Chief Macho]

honestly,  i think the whole thing is an indictment of how awful the league is in general.   half the league trying to lose for a whole season, and teams being forced to trade their allstar players for less than what they're worth.   i can't believe any rational fan of sports looks at the way the nba works and thinks its a good system. 

[Celtics18]

honestly,  i think the whole thing is an indictment of how awful the league is in general.   half the league trying to lose for a whole season, and teams being forced to trade their allstar players for less than what they're worth.   i can't believe any rational fan of sports looks at the way the nba works and thinks its a good system.

"Rational fan of sports"?  You do know what fan is short for, right? 

[LarBrd33]

If the Celtics had barely made the playoffs, Ainge would still have a ton of draft picks to offer in a deal and Kevin Love would currently be viewed as the guy who could boost the team from playoff contender to title contender.  The Celtics having a high lottery pick didn't cause Kevin Love to be available.  He'd still be out there and Boston would be seen as one of the likely suitors.

  No kidding. We've got 8-9 first rounders over the next 5 years, the thought that we couldn't swing a deal without this year's pick is fairly ludicrous.

10 nickles doesn't equal a dollar. 

While I agree that a boatload of marginal late 1st rounders is theoretically nice... A top 5 pick is still significantly more valuable than a #15 pick.

For instance...

If you had to trade Rondo, would you rather trade him for a Top 5 pick in this draft... or 3-4 picks in the #17-25 range?

And if 3-4 picks in the #17-25 range = a Top 5 pick... we best be packaging those picks for a Top 5 pick

   You don't have any idea where the picks will end up, neither does the team that trades them, neither does the team that trades for them. Just look at how everyone's opinions of the Nets picks have changed over the last year, including the 2014 pick which is a number of spots better than you'd have predicted it would be at the start of the season. Not to mention we got KG without trading a top 5 pick...

True.  But with the right trade a future Nets pick could also go from a mid first rounder to a late first rounder.  It's the great unknown at this point.  What we have now for the Wolves is the sure thing, a pick in the top 8 or higher.  Do you want the Ferrari??  Or whats in the mystery box??  it could be a check for a 80 million dollars or a coupon for a bag of dorritos at safeway.

The top 5 pick we traded for KG was Al Jefferson, who at the time was considered a possible franchise player.  We dont have a 21 year old PF that showed he could put up 20 and 10 on the reg to offer back.  Yeah we have Sullinger but hes only shown flashes, has been known to be injury prone, and is considered undersized.  Too many questions.

Even if the 2016 or 2018 picks have a chance to be special, teams generally don't give up superstars for a "maybe" good pick 2-4 years from now.  They'd want a tangible bluechip asset they could rally around now.  Our Top 8 pick is one of those assets.   Nobody is going to get behind trading a 25 year old superstar for a draft pick 2 years from now that just as likely ends up in the 20s.    That's silly.   Duncan hasn't long for this world, but would you trade Rondo for 2016 and 2018 Spurs picks?  Sure, they might end up great picks, but wouldn't you want something tangible you could start developing now?  Takes enough patience waiting for a 2014 star prospect to develop... let alone gambling on a pick 2-4 years from now.

Our pick is valuable, because there are names attached to it.  Whether your agree or not, there is a large percentage of the NBA that believes that a Top 8 pick in this 2014 draft is special.   We wouldn't have this opportunity if we were offering up a couple picks in the teens.

Bottom line:  The most valuable asset on this team is our Top 8 pick.   We wouldn't have this pick had we not tanked.  We likely wouldn't be in the running for guys like Kevin Love had we not tanked.  It was worth it.   Enjoy the fruits of our terrible season.

[badshar]

A player that was once considered an injury-prone and was being passed on by teams one after another in the draft, he may now end up being an integral part of a trade that will bring Kevin Love to the C's.

Although, I am definitely not that sold on K. Love turning around this franchise. If he couldn't even get .500 with what he had in Wolves, what will he do over here with only half roster talent (assuming the other half is traded to get him)?

The only way it would work is Rondo/Carmelo/Love with a great offensive and defensive system.

[BballTim]

If the Celtics had barely made the playoffs, Ainge would still have a ton of draft picks to offer in a deal and Kevin Love would currently be viewed as the guy who could boost the team from playoff contender to title contender.  The Celtics having a high lottery pick didn't cause Kevin Love to be available.  He'd still be out there and Boston would be seen as one of the likely suitors.

  No kidding. We've got 8-9 first rounders over the next 5 years, the thought that we couldn't swing a deal without this year's pick is fairly ludicrous.

10 nickles doesn't equal a dollar. 

While I agree that a boatload of marginal late 1st rounders is theoretically nice... A top 5 pick is still significantly more valuable than a #15 pick.

For instance...

If you had to trade Rondo, would you rather trade him for a Top 5 pick in this draft... or 3-4 picks in the #17-25 range?

And if 3-4 picks in the #17-25 range = a Top 5 pick... we best be packaging those picks for a Top 5 pick

   You don't have any idea where the picks will end up, neither does the team that trades them, neither does the team that trades for them. Just look at how everyone's opinions of the Nets picks have changed over the last year, including the 2014 pick which is a number of spots better than you'd have predicted it would be at the start of the season. Not to mention we got KG without trading a top 5 pick...

True.  But with the right trade a future Nets pick could also go from a mid first rounder to a late first rounder.  It's the great unknown at this point.  What we have now for the Wolves is the sure thing, a pick in the top 8 or higher.  Do you want the Ferrari??  Or whats in the mystery box??  it could be a check for a 80 million dollars or a coupon for a bag of dorritos at safeway.

  There's quite a bit of exaggeration in that paragraph. Future first round draft picks are worth more than you seem to think.

The top 5 pick we traded for KG was Al Jefferson, who at the time was considered a possible franchise player.  We dont have a 21 year old PF that showed he could put up 20 and 10 on the reg to offer back.  Yeah we have Sullinger but hes only shown flashes, has been known to be injury prone, and is considered undersized.  Too many questions.

  Sullinger's a little younger and less experienced than Al was and his per minute scoring and rebounding are pretty similar. Not to mention that Al was also seen as injury prone and not much bigger than Jared. He was seen as a nice player but not really a franchise player.

[Cman]

Ah yes. A thread about counterfactuals. Where's the exit? There it is! I'm Audi 5000 y'all!

[CoachBo]

The top 5 pick wasn't Jefferson.

It was Jeff Green.

[BballTim]

If the Celtics had barely made the playoffs, Ainge would still have a ton of draft picks to offer in a deal and Kevin Love would currently be viewed as the guy who could boost the team from playoff contender to title contender.  The Celtics having a high lottery pick didn't cause Kevin Love to be available.  He'd still be out there and Boston would be seen as one of the likely suitors.

  No kidding. We've got 8-9 first rounders over the next 5 years, the thought that we couldn't swing a deal without this year's pick is fairly ludicrous.

10 nickles doesn't equal a dollar. 

While I agree that a boatload of marginal late 1st rounders is theoretically nice... A top 5 pick is still significantly more valuable than a #15 pick.

For instance...

If you had to trade Rondo, would you rather trade him for a Top 5 pick in this draft... or 3-4 picks in the #17-25 range?

And if 3-4 picks in the #17-25 range = a Top 5 pick... we best be packaging those picks for a Top 5 pick

   You don't have any idea where the picks will end up, neither does the team that trades them, neither does the team that trades for them. Just look at how everyone's opinions of the Nets picks have changed over the last year, including the 2014 pick which is a number of spots better than you'd have predicted it would be at the start of the season. Not to mention we got KG without trading a top 5 pick...

True.  But with the right trade a future Nets pick could also go from a mid first rounder to a late first rounder.  It's the great unknown at this point.  What we have now for the Wolves is the sure thing, a pick in the top 8 or higher.  Do you want the Ferrari??  Or whats in the mystery box??  it could be a check for a 80 million dollars or a coupon for a bag of dorritos at safeway.

The top 5 pick we traded for KG was Al Jefferson, who at the time was considered a possible franchise player.  We dont have a 21 year old PF that showed he could put up 20 and 10 on the reg to offer back.  Yeah we have Sullinger but hes only shown flashes, has been known to be injury prone, and is considered undersized.  Too many questions.

Even if the 2016 or 2018 picks have a chance to be special, teams generally don't give up superstars for a "maybe" good pick 2-4 years from now.  They'd want a tangible bluechip asset they could rally around now.  Our Top 8 pick is one of those assets.   Nobody is going to get behind trading a 25 year old superstar for a draft pick 2 years from now that just as likely ends up in the 20s.    That's silly.   Duncan hasn't long for this world, but would you trade Rondo for 2016 and 2018 Spurs picks?  Sure, they might end up great picks, but wouldn't you want something tangible you could start developing now?  Takes enough patience waiting for a 2014 star prospect to develop... let alone gambling on a pick 2-4 years from now.

  Most teams don't really get tangible bluechip assets when they trade stars away. That's just how it is. That's why Minny wouldn't be trading Love if they didn't feel that they had to.

Our pick is valuable, because there are names attached to it.  Whether your agree or not, there is a large percentage of the NBA that believes that a Top 8 pick in this 2014 draft is special.   We wouldn't have this opportunity if we were offering up a couple picks in the teens.

  The bloom's pretty much off that Rose. You don't have any idea how many nba people think that a top 8 pick in this draft is special, all you know is that you read some hyped up scouting reports earlier this season and bought into it.

Bottom line:  The most valuable asset on this team is our Top 8 pick.   We wouldn't have this pick had we not tanked.  We likely wouldn't be in the running for guys like Kevin Love had we not tanked.  It was worth it.   Enjoy the fruits of our terrible season.

  Bottom line, you have no idea whether we'd be in the running for guys like Kevin Love without a top 8 pick. You have opinions, likely bolstered by other people who don't know what they're talking about, but not much else.

[BballTim]

The top 5 pick wasn't Jefferson.

It was Jeff Green.

   ...who wasn't traded for KG. There was not top 5 pick involved in that deal. The top 5 pick not only brought us Ray, but it also enticed Seattle to take on Wally and his 2 remaining years on a bloated contract. That shows how much they wanted to get rid of Ray.

[Celtics39]

My question is this: can't we get Love without giving up the lottery pick this year?

We can give them the 4 Brooklyn picks, the LAC pick, and 1 or 2 of our own draft picks, plus Sullinger. That's 6-7 1st round draft picks + Sullinger. Who the HELL can offer a better package than that?

no one's worth 6-7 unprotected 1st rounders and Sully.  no one.  no one player puts this franchise over the top, certainly not Kevin Love.  that kind of ridiculous overpayment would cripple our ability to pick up good cheap young talent.

So you'd rather they give up their top 5 pick this year?