How pathetic is Miami?

[staticcc]

Um, no.  just no.

Jordan won with less talent on his team.  he didn't need to collude with 2 other all-stars to play together to rig the odds in his favor.  I'll be the first to say he's not the GOAT and he won titles in a less-talented time in the NBA but I'd take Jordan over Lebron without a second thought.

Jordan played with multiple all stars and a top 50 player in league history.  So you are saying we should credit him for the good fortune of being drafted to a team that didn't have terrible management and ownership and hold that against James.  Jordan didn't win a single playoff series until he had Pippen.  Pippen who was a top 5 draft pick mind you.

Magic Johnson said that he would have returned to Michigan State if the Lakers didn't win the coin flip as he didn't want to go to Chicago.  Why not give him crap for that?

"I'd have stayed in school," he said here Tuesday, standing alone outside Gate 3 1/2 of Chicago Stadium, the house that could have been his. "A coin toss changed the course of my whole life." 

"I wouldn't have played here," Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. "The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers.

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers

Kobe Bryant refused to play for Charlotte forcing a trade to the Lakers, why not give him crap for that?


But it is only Lebron James he gets crap for wanting to play with quality teammates.  Had Cleveland actually had decent management, James never would have left and would have won multiple titles in Cleveland.  He is quite simply just that good.  Cleveland just could never appropriately build a team around him (imagine if they would have kept Boozer, things might have been different).

gibson
sg
lebron
varejao
shaq

illuagaskaz etc; is not a bad team,

imagined
kyrie
waiters
lebron
thompson
varejao

Don't even compare gibson SG lebron varejao and old shaq to the lakers and bulls championship teams.

[Donoghus]

The Jordan stuff is certainly premature but Lebron is better than Kobe.  I don't know if he'll get surpass or even match the 5 rings but he's a better basketball player.

[Moranis]

Um, no.  just no.

Jordan won with less talent on his team.  he didn't need to collude with 2 other all-stars to play together to rig the odds in his favor.  I'll be the first to say he's not the GOAT and he won titles in a less-talented time in the NBA but I'd take Jordan over Lebron without a second thought.

Jordan played with multiple all stars and a top 50 player in league history.  So you are saying we should credit him for the good fortune of being drafted to a team that didn't have terrible management and ownership and hold that against James.  Jordan didn't win a single playoff series until he had Pippen.  Pippen who was a top 5 draft pick mind you.

Magic Johnson said that he would have returned to Michigan State if the Lakers didn't win the coin flip as he didn't want to go to Chicago.  Why not give him crap for that?

"I'd have stayed in school," he said here Tuesday, standing alone outside Gate 3 1/2 of Chicago Stadium, the house that could have been his. "A coin toss changed the course of my whole life." 

"I wouldn't have played here," Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. "The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers.

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers

Kobe Bryant refused to play for Charlotte forcing a trade to the Lakers, why not give him crap for that?

But it is only Lebron James he gets crap for wanting to play with quality teammates.  Had Cleveland actually had decent management, James never would have left and would have won multiple titles in Cleveland.  He is quite simply just that good.  Cleveland just could never appropriately build a team around him (imagine if they would have kept Boozer, things might have been different).

really, you don't think Wade and Bosh are better than Pippen and Grant/Rodman?  I certainly do.  I also consider the bench brigade for Miami to be much better than the bench brigade for the Bulls too.

I have no issue with giving crap to Magic or Kobe but they weren't part of the discussion.  Magic played with a stacked deck in LA with all those players who were also top picks.  Kobe's prima donna jerk.  anyone else you feel like dragging into the discussion to make some arbitrary point about your idol Lebron?

By the way, Pippen may have been the #5 pick but you could have swapped him out for a few other players in that same draft that probably would have won a title with Jordan as easily as Pippen -- Reggie Miller, Reggie Lewis, Mark Jackson and Kevin Johnson.  I know I'm in the minority on this but Pippen would not make my all-time top 50 players in the NBA.  Take Pippen off the Bulls and I seriously doubt he's even in the discussion.  his shooting deficiencies would have been more exposed.

Why are you bringing up Wade and Bosh?  Last time I checked they weren't in Cleveland with James.  And just to answer your question Pippen was better than Wade and Bosh have ever been with James.

[manl_lui]

Um, no.  just no.

Jordan won with less talent on his team.  he didn't need to collude with 2 other all-stars to play together to rig the odds in his favor.  I'll be the first to say he's not the GOAT and he won titles in a less-talented time in the NBA but I'd take Jordan over Lebron without a second thought.

Jordan played with multiple all stars and a top 50 player in league history.  So you are saying we should credit him for the good fortune of being drafted to a team that didn't have terrible management and ownership and hold that against James.  Jordan didn't win a single playoff series until he had Pippen.  Pippen who was a top 5 draft pick mind you.

Magic Johnson said that he would have returned to Michigan State if the Lakers didn't win the coin flip as he didn't want to go to Chicago.  Why not give him crap for that?

"I'd have stayed in school," he said here Tuesday, standing alone outside Gate 3 1/2 of Chicago Stadium, the house that could have been his. "A coin toss changed the course of my whole life." 

"I wouldn't have played here," Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. "The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers.

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers

Kobe Bryant refused to play for Charlotte forcing a trade to the Lakers, why not give him crap for that?

But it is only Lebron James he gets crap for wanting to play with quality teammates.  Had Cleveland actually had decent management, James never would have left and would have won multiple titles in Cleveland.  He is quite simply just that good.  Cleveland just could never appropriately build a team around him (imagine if they would have kept Boozer, things might have been different).

really, you don't think Wade and Bosh are better than Pippen and Grant/Rodman?  I certainly do.  I also consider the bench brigade for Miami to be much better than the bench brigade for the Bulls too.

I have no issue with giving crap to Magic or Kobe but they weren't part of the discussion.  Magic played with a stacked deck in LA with all those players who were also top picks.  Kobe's prima donna jerk.  anyone else you feel like dragging into the discussion to make some arbitrary point about your idol Lebron?

By the way, Pippen may have been the #5 pick but you could have swapped him out for a few other players in that same draft that probably would have won a title with Jordan as easily as Pippen -- Reggie Miller, Reggie Lewis, Mark Jackson and Kevin Johnson.  I know I'm in the minority on this but Pippen would not make my all-time top 50 players in the NBA.  Take Pippen off the Bulls and I seriously doubt he's even in the discussion.  his shooting deficiencies would have been more exposed.

Why are you bringing up Wade and Bosh?  Last time I checked they weren't in Cleveland with James.  And just to answer your question Pippen was better than Wade and Bosh have ever been with James.

I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion but, I certainly don't think Wade/Bosh > Pippen/Rodman

Pippen was a top defensive player that can score. Reliable scorer and took a lot of load when Jordan retired for the first time. Absolutely beast defensively and offensively. Good 3 point shooter and lockdown defender. Rodman was one of the greatest defender in his era, can guard all 5 positions and rebounds like a beast. You're talking a very undersized power forward about the size of Michael Jordan if not an inch taller, but can out rebound people much taller than he is.

The 97 Bulls will massacre this current Heat team.   

[RyNye]

Yeah, sorry, anyone who thinks Wade/Bosh are better than Pippen/Rodman needs to dig up some tapes and watch those Bulls teams.

Wade and Bosh are fine players, no question. I could even accept an argument about Wade over Pippen dependent on team context (Pippen is inarguably a better defensive player, though Wade is probably better offensively. I would say Pippen gets the edge because he was no offensive slouch, but I could at least see an argument here). But there is absolutely no universe in which Bosh is better than Rodman. Bosh probably won't even be in the Hall-of-Fame. Again, Bosh is a fine player, but Rodman was a dominant presence on the court.

[ScoobyDoo]

I think LeBron is a phenomenal player but my main premise is that he has had no legit in their prime individual rival or team on his way to titles.

Bird had Magic lead teams and Magic had Bird lead teams.

Jordan had the Pistons and the Lakers, Indiana and New York were very tough series as well.

If Paul Pierce were LeBron's age and KG was Bosh's age - there is absolutely no way the Heat get past the Celtics since 2010 and no way they get past the Nets this year - not even close. The Heat would get blown out in both series. 4-0, 4-1, 4-2 max. The same can be said if you rolled the years back on SA's trio 3-4 years.

This Miami team has feasted on either over the hill key rival players and/or teams and sometimes both, or younger teams that haven't yet arrived. They have never once beaten a legit, truly "arrived" young team or a legit prime time team, ever.

And I don't even want to entertain whether Lebron's Heat could beat Jordan's Bulls. That would be one of the biggest mismatches in league history.

In Chicago's first three title run, Jackson would start Horace Grant on Bosh, Pippen on James, Jordan on Wade - series over. Grant would largely neutralize Bosh, Pippen would give James fits -has both the speed, length and wiry strength to completely disrupt James and Jordan on Wade - Please...   

In the second three title run, he'd start Rodman on Bosh, Pippen on James, Jordan on Wade. See above. Actually he'd let Jordan get up under James now and again - no way LeBron can get around Jordan. Series over before it starts.   

Bosh would be crying in a corner by the time Jackson moves Rodman over to James and brings in some other PF to hammer him. The combo of Rodman / Pippen alternating defense would have LeBron in tears midway through the second quarter - every game.   

Jordan would make Wade look like a D-Leaguer. Jordan is so much more clutch, more talented
 and more fearsome than Wade it isn't even funny.

[fairweatherfan]

I would love for the Celtics to be as pathetic as Miami is right now.  Please throw me into that briar patch ASAP Danny.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

They've had some good battles with Indiana and I'm expecting another one shortly.

If they get by Indiana, I wouldn't be shocked to see a San Antonio rematch.   You could make a pretty easy case that San Antonio should've beaten them in last year's finals. 

Digging deep, it really hasn't been a cakewalk for Miami over these past few years. Back to back 7 game conference finals and a 7 game series in last year's NBA finals.

spurs choked that series away last year thanks to kawhi leonards missed free throw. Pop shoulda ran him until he dropped after that. he cost them a title.

[D.o.s.]

Are we just pretending that we don't have evidence of Pippin as A)the best player on a team and B)not on the Bulls?

Probably should've won a ring with that '99-00 Blazers squad.

Should've stuck to liquid foods, though -- has there ever been a team more prone to choking?

also, re: Leonard -- I remember Ginobili missing some key free throws, too.

[ScoobyDoo]

"spurs choked that series away last year thanks to kawhi leonards missed free throw. Pop shoulda ran him until he dropped after that. he cost them a title".

Actually I thought the series ended the minute SA decided to leave Ray Allen wide open for a three point shot when Miami was down 3 with seconds to go.

Ray Allen, not just a good three point shooter, no. The best three point shooter of all time, who also, just for good measure, has a "major" habit of hitting big three point shots when it matters most, is wide open off a rebound when you're up three with seconds to go. News Flash, might want to guard Ray Allen in that scenario - at all costs. Let "anyone" else shoot the ball but him. Just a tiny little mistake there. Series was over after that - no way SA wins game 7.

Similarly, when we were up 3-2 going back to Boston against the Heat and lost game six at home in royal fashion - 30 point blow out or something? - the series was over when that buzzer sounded - no way you win game 7 after mistakes/whiffs like that - doesn't happen.       

[ScoobyDoo]

That was one of the most painful plays I ever watched - right up there with the baby Hook over McHale.

[LarBrd33]

Bron is one of best players in the history of the game.  Shame so many people are still seething in jealous rage over his success... they are missing out on watching one of the greatest ever during his peak.

[sahara]

Bron is one of best players in the history of the game.  Shame so many people are still seething in jealous rage over his success... they are missing out on watching one of the greatest ever during his peak.

He is in the top-10 of alltime. But he didn?t have any primetime superstar to battle with and he teamed up to be one of the superjerks. (Ok, Bosh is cool, but still a superjerk).

Lebron is one of the very best players ever, but he is a **** and he did his legacy wrong.

[Celtics4ever]

Bron is one of best players in the history of the game.  Shame so many people are still seething in jealous rage over his success... they are missing out on watching one of the greatest ever during his peak.

I think he is a great player, but the help he gets are ridiculous.   Some of the travels are really bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGsl36MnOqY

Call the game the same for all, he'll still be great, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVBYnbEATeg

Do you enjoy watching bad calls?   I don't.

I think the ball being out last night in the Clippers game was stupid too, they won't even admit obvious mistakes in a recall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q2CoiBaTb5k


I smell a rat and that rat is NBA refs.

Another vintage NBA ref moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_jsyxJVAXs

I am for the intregrity of the game over promotion of their stars.   I guess I am in the minority.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Bron is one of best players in the history of the game.  Shame so many people are still seething in jealous rage over his success... they are missing out on watching one of the greatest ever during his peak.

Just because I don't like someone doesn't mean I'm jealous of them. Just because you want to watch and cheer him on doesn't mean we have to. Are you seriously trying to make us believe you follow and cheer and are happy to see every great player you are able to watch? You must love every great player to ever play, probably follow Kobe's every move. Fab Melo made it to the NBA, maybe I'm jealous of him b.c I can't even play half as good as that flop. Dislike doesn't always mean jealousy. I don't care how you feel about him, I don't watch basketball based on what others think.