OKC ousted in 7; Russell Westbrook to Celts; swap lottery pick for Love

[mmmmm]

I hate to be extreme, but these trade proposals are just awful.

I would probably get ill to my stomache if the first one happened.  I literally could feel the wretch coming up.

Westbrook is not remotely close to being worth trading Rondo and Olynyk.

IMO, he's not remotely worth Rondo OR Olynyk.   Rondo is just, imho, a signficantly better player at the same position.  Even when resigned he won't be any more expensive than Westbrook.  And he is better.   Olynyk is a seven footer who has shown tremendous upside potential and is on a rookie contract.   No way am I giving either of those up for Westbrook, let alone both.

The other trade is not AS bad, but it is a huge overpay.   Take off either this year's pick or the 2016 BKN pick from the deal and it would be closer to a more realistic deal.

That proposal is quite a bit more than we gave up for Kevin Garnett.   Assuming Sully + Bass are roughly similar value to Big Al & Gomes (and actually, they may be MORE valuable), we only gave up two picks plus filler for KG.   Love is younger, but he's nowhere near what KG was.

[BballTim]

I wonder why we haven't had a megathread arguing about the relative merits of Westbrook and Rondo yet...

It's high time to start that debate.

  No, we should wait for them to play again, then some people could act like that one game performance should be the deciding factor in the discussion.

  Or maybe we just need to see the opening quarter of the next game.

[mmmmm]

Replace my two favorite players in the world with my two least favorite?  I'll pass.

Like them or not, Westbrook and Love would be a MAJOR upgrade over Rondo and Sully. You would rather keep your "favorite players" and have the team suck?

Love is an upgrade over Sully, for sure.  But Westbrook is a downgrade from Rondo and in no way or form is worth close to the value of Rondo + Olynyk.

And while I like Love, that proposal is a significant overpay.

[kozlodoev]

The way the Celtics are constructed right now, Westbrook will be a much better fit than Rondo. He's a guy who can make something happen with the ball in his hands. Sure, he holds the ball too much and turn it over more than I'd like -- but as far as I am concerned, his style of play may make guys like Bradley and Green better.

It may sound paradoxical to some, after all, Rondo is the quintessential "pass-first" PG, but I don't think a Rondo-led team will be a great team unless it has great scorers (and Bradley and Green aren't).

[D.o.s.]

I wonder why we haven't had a megathread arguing about the relative merits of Westbrook and Rondo yet...

It's high time to start that debate.

  No, we should wait for them to play again, then some people could act like that one game performance should be the deciding factor in the discussion.

  Or maybe we just need to see the opening quarter of the next game.

My vote is for competing highlight reels.

[footey]

I don't like the team we end up with.  Would rather take my chances with most of our current core intact, and get a center and a good couple of draft picks.  Like Aaron Gordon and young.

[Celtics18]

I wonder why we haven't had a megathread arguing about the relative merits of Westbrook and Rondo yet...

It's high time to start that debate.

  No, we should wait for them to play again, then some people could act like that one game performance should be the deciding factor in the discussion.

  Or maybe we just need to see the opening quarter of the next game.

My vote is for competing highlight reels.

Great idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I-meNeNB6o

Here's a favorite of mine.

[D.o.s.]

Why don't the videos embed anymore?

Anyway, two good ones:

Westbrook:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zRhiDd6xWo

Rondo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LW7z3DM6O4

[BballTim]

The way the Celtics are constructed right now, Westbrook will be a much better fit than Rondo. He's a guy who can make something happen with the ball in his hands. Sure, he holds the ball too much and turn it over more than I'd like -- but as far as I am concerned, his style of play may make guys like Bradley and Green better.

  Rondo can make things happen with the ball in his hands as well, and Westbrook wouldn't really make Green or Bradley better. As for your overall point though, whether Westbrook would be a better fit for the current team (you may be right) would be useful if we're more or less satisfied with the team as currently constituted. I don't think that's the case. If we're going to improve the team to at least a good team then Rondo would likely be the more valuable player.

It may sound paradoxical to some, after all, Rondo is the quintessential "pass-first" PG, but I don't think a Rondo-led team will be a great team unless it has great scorers (and Bradley and Green aren't).

  If you think that the big three were great scorers in 2012 when we went to the conference finals, or even in 2010 when we went to the finals, then the league's pretty full of "great scorers". In the playoffs that year (so out of 16 teams) PP was 21st in the league in scoring, Ray was 32nd and KG was 37th. Not what I'd describe as "great". Good shooters, yes. Great scorers, not really.

[Evantime34]

The way the Celtics are constructed right now, Westbrook will be a much better fit than Rondo. He's a guy who can make something happen with the ball in his hands. Sure, he holds the ball too much and turn it over more than I'd like -- but as far as I am concerned, his style of play may make guys like Bradley and Green better.

It may sound paradoxical to some, after all, Rondo is the quintessential "pass-first" PG, but I don't think a Rondo-led team will be a great team unless it has great scorers (and Bradley and Green aren't).

Completely agree, then again this year Rondo's problem of not creating for himself was magnified because he was unable to/refused to drive to the basket.

Watching this year made it more clear than ever that we need a player who can create shots for himself, that or surround Rondo with much better shot makers.

[D.o.s.]

The way the Celtics are constructed right now, Westbrook will be a much better fit than Rondo. He's a guy who can make something happen with the ball in his hands. Sure, he holds the ball too much and turn it over more than I'd like -- but as far as I am concerned, his style of play may make guys like Bradley and Green better.

It may sound paradoxical to some, after all, Rondo is the quintessential "pass-first" PG, but I don't think a Rondo-led team will be a great team unless it has great scorers (and Bradley and Green aren't).

Completely agree, then again this year Rondo's problem of not creating for himself was magnified because he was unable to/refused to drive to the basket.

Sounds good -- Except for the fact that he was near the top of the league for drives per game, of course. He actually drove more times per game than Dragic, Bledsoe, Lillard, and Mike Conley.

Don't let numbers stand in your way, though:

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDrives.html?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Season=2013-14&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&filters=&sortField=DVS&sortOrder=DES



Rondo's problem was that he was unable to convert at the rim -- not that he wasn't getting there.

[Evantime34]

The way the Celtics are constructed right now, Westbrook will be a much better fit than Rondo. He's a guy who can make something happen with the ball in his hands. Sure, he holds the ball too much and turn it over more than I'd like -- but as far as I am concerned, his style of play may make guys like Bradley and Green better.

It may sound paradoxical to some, after all, Rondo is the quintessential "pass-first" PG, but I don't think a Rondo-led team will be a great team unless it has great scorers (and Bradley and Green aren't).

Completely agree, then again this year Rondo's problem of not creating for himself was magnified because he was unable to/refused to drive to the basket.

Sounds good -- Except for the fact that he was near the top of the league for drives per game, of course. He actually drove more times per game than Dragic, Bledsoe, Lillard, and Mike Conley.

Don't let numbers stand in your way, though:

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDrives.html?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Season=2013-14&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&filters=&sortField=DVS&sortOrder=DES



Rondo's problem was that he was unable to convert at the rim -- not that he wasn't getting there.

Hmmm, I guess my eyes played tricks on me when I was watching the games. I thought he was attacking less. I always thought Rondo was better but how bad the team was with him this year changed my mind.

[slamtheking]

Speaking as someone who has a favorite team, not favorite players:

Again, I'd rather throw Rondo in the Love deal and take my chances with Rubio.

  With all of your posts knocking Rondo for his poor shooting it's truly fitting that you'd want to take your chances with Rubio. He's deadly from anywhere on the court.

need to add that sarcasm font so he knows you're not seriously thinking Rubio's a good shooter.    that is unless you're referring to his passing where he's deadly to anyone sitting in the front row from anywhere on the court

[BballTim]

The way the Celtics are constructed right now, Westbrook will be a much better fit than Rondo. He's a guy who can make something happen with the ball in his hands. Sure, he holds the ball too much and turn it over more than I'd like -- but as far as I am concerned, his style of play may make guys like Bradley and Green better.

It may sound paradoxical to some, after all, Rondo is the quintessential "pass-first" PG, but I don't think a Rondo-led team will be a great team unless it has great scorers (and Bradley and Green aren't).

Completely agree, then again this year Rondo's problem of not creating for himself was magnified because he was unable to/refused to drive to the basket.

Sounds good -- Except for the fact that he was near the top of the league for drives per game, of course. He actually drove more times per game than Dragic, Bledsoe, Lillard, and Mike Conley.

Don't let numbers stand in your way, though:

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDrives.html?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Season=2013-14&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&filters=&sortField=DVS&sortOrder=DES



Rondo's problem was that he was unable to convert at the rim -- not that he wasn't getting there.

  Rondo drives into the lane more than those players but 3 of those 4 take more shots at the rim per game than Rondo. He was getting into the lane a lot but not getting to the rim overly frequently.

[kozlodoev]

The way the Celtics are constructed right now, Westbrook will be a much better fit than Rondo. He's a guy who can make something happen with the ball in his hands. Sure, he holds the ball too much and turn it over more than I'd like -- but as far as I am concerned, his style of play may make guys like Bradley and Green better.

It may sound paradoxical to some, after all, Rondo is the quintessential "pass-first" PG, but I don't think a Rondo-led team will be a great team unless it has great scorers (and Bradley and Green aren't).

Completely agree, then again this year Rondo's problem of not creating for himself was magnified because he was unable to/refused to drive to the basket.

Sounds good -- Except for the fact that he was near the top of the league for drives per game, of course. He actually drove more times per game than Dragic, Bledsoe, Lillard, and Mike Conley.

Don't let numbers stand in your way, though:

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDrives.html?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Season=2013-14&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&filters=&sortField=DVS&sortOrder=DES



Rondo's problem was that he was unable to convert at the rim -- not that he wasn't getting there.

The fact that he drove doesn't mean that he created anything in the process (for himself or for others). As you mentioned, his efficiency on the drive was quite pathetic. Though, somewhat surprisingly to me, Westbrook hasn't been much better in this department last season.