Heinsohn: Sit Rondo if bad habits continue

[Tr1boy]

This is more of a team problem then Rondo.

No way man. The guy has the ball in his hands 80 percent of the time. 

Tommy is right. Take off your rondo jersey , take a shower and read again

  Put your Rondo jersey on and re-read:

  "This team has to go and find opportunities without plays. They've got to be aggressive without plays because they don't execute that well yet"

  It's not that hard to understand why he's calling it a team problem.

I like the way you make this issue into a non issue. Tommy is not a happy camper. I would listen to a guy that has won more championships than Rondo, Ainge, Stevens and the current whole celtics team combined.

Set plays worked before bc we had three HOF on the team. Even a team with three very good players might not be able to play half court, set plays, slow mo basketball majority of the time. So why bother trying to teach or make it work with a team with no all stars + youngsters??  Your not maximizing the team capabilities this way. This team has looked their best playing at a faster pace, scoring transition baskets

Ainge has some big work to do over the summer. Either try to redesign the 2007 team again (trade our picks and get Love, Melo etc.) and make it work with Rondo or trade Rondo and start the full rebuild. When you want to mix the two things, this is where losses will increase and frustrations go out of control.

 IMO Ainge should of let one of the assistant guys coach the team for this season and depending how things shape up over the summer (fireworks or trade Rondo), picked up either a guy like Stevens to lead the rebuild (trust him bc he took a bunch of nobodies to the finals twice in the ncaa) or hire a coach like Karl to lead a vet team far into the playoffs

[Eddie20]

Tommy said this yesterday during the post-game show while talking to Kyle Draper. Tommy said that Stevens has been preaching to push the ball up all year. Draper asked him what does he do if a player, in this case Rondo, doesn't listen. He responded "you sit him". To which Draper said, "but that's your captain, and Heinsohn responded "doesn't matter".

Heinsohn elaborated by stating that Rondo developed a lot of bad habits in playing for Doc because he grew to accustomed to walking the ball up the court. However, he spoke about how team was different and they ran plays in the halfcourt to perfection. This team can't execute like those veteran teams, so Rondo needs to get into sets faster to get shots in transition and have more time on the clock to run plays. His pounding of the ball was also criticized as another bad habit.

  I don't think it would hurt for Rondo to get the ball up the court a little faster but it probably wouldn't help much either. He advances the ball up court when there's a decent ballhandler ahead of him (Green or Bayless for instance) and hurries the ball up when there's a transition opportunity. The complaints that he doesn't hurry when the defense is back and there's no transition opportunity is just nonsense. Beyond that though, the fact that people are quick to jump on Rondo for running plays because the other players don't execute well is both ridiculous and unsurprising. How many people are talking about who the players that can't execute plays are or criticizing them in the thread? Not many if any. How many are using Rondo's trying to execute an offense as another reason to trade him? Hilarious.

Another criticism of mine is that he way too often crashes the defensive glass looking for rebounds. Now there is a time and place when that is warranted, but I've seen him do it on plenty of occasions where a teammate has the rebound pretty much in hand. So I'd much rather see Rondo start leaking out looking for the outlet pass to start our fast break rather than receiving the ball by the other teams basket. Again, he doesn't need to leak out all the time, but I honestly can't recall the last time I've seen him do it and receive an outlet pass from a teammate.

So a point guard grabbing rebounds to start the fast break or to start a play in case the defense runs back is all of a sudden a bad thing?

Never said it was a bad thing. However, a PG grabbing rebounds underneath the basket isn't exactly ideal to start a fast break.

Time for Red to chime in...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z32dmWtozpk

[Rondo9]

Beyond that though, the fact that people are quick to jump on Rondo for running plays because the other players don't execute well is both ridiculous and unsurprising. How many people are talking about who the players that can't execute plays are or criticizing them in the thread? Not many if any. How many are using Rondo's trying to execute an offense as another reason to trade him? Hilarious.

Well, I think you can't have it both ways.  If Rondo is the best player on the team, and he is truly a star, then the burden is on him to lead the team and do the right things to help the team succeed.  Arguably, with the talent and experience being what it is on this team, that means that we should expect Rondo to adjust. 

Rondo's preference clearly is to dominate the ball, and to really slow down the pace and run plays at the end of tight games.  That style made sense a few years ago.  It doesn't play to the strengths of the current team -- insofar as this team has strengths -- at all.


I guess what I'm saying is that you can't tout Rondo's passing ability and general prowess as a floor general on the one hand (i.e. he makes the players around him better), and then when the team is failing to score points late in games despite having such a good passer say, "Well, you can't blame Rondo for having bad teammates."

The team plays better when Rondo is on the floor and Rondo hasn't played thirty games yet. He's a great passer and a good floor general, however he's still recovering from knee surgery.

[Rondo9]

Tommy said this yesterday during the post-game show while talking to Kyle Draper. Tommy said that Stevens has been preaching to push the ball up all year. Draper asked him what does he do if a player, in this case Rondo, doesn't listen. He responded "you sit him". To which Draper said, "but that's your captain, and Heinsohn responded "doesn't matter".

Heinsohn elaborated by stating that Rondo developed a lot of bad habits in playing for Doc because he grew to accustomed to walking the ball up the court. However, he spoke about how team was different and they ran plays in the halfcourt to perfection. This team can't execute like those veteran teams, so Rondo needs to get into sets faster to get shots in transition and have more time on the clock to run plays. His pounding of the ball was also criticized as another bad habit.

  I don't think it would hurt for Rondo to get the ball up the court a little faster but it probably wouldn't help much either. He advances the ball up court when there's a decent ballhandler ahead of him (Green or Bayless for instance) and hurries the ball up when there's a transition opportunity. The complaints that he doesn't hurry when the defense is back and there's no transition opportunity is just nonsense. Beyond that though, the fact that people are quick to jump on Rondo for running plays because the other players don't execute well is both ridiculous and unsurprising. How many people are talking about who the players that can't execute plays are or criticizing them in the thread? Not many if any. How many are using Rondo's trying to execute an offense as another reason to trade him? Hilarious.

Another criticism of mine is that he way too often crashes the defensive glass looking for rebounds. Now there is a time and place when that is warranted, but I've seen him do it on plenty of occasions where a teammate has the rebound pretty much in hand. So I'd much rather see Rondo start leaking out looking for the outlet pass to start our fast break rather than receiving the ball by the other teams basket. Again, he doesn't need to leak out all the time, but I honestly can't recall the last time I've seen him do it and receive an outlet pass from a teammate.

So a point guard grabbing rebounds to start the fast break or to start a play in case the defense runs back is all of a sudden a bad thing?

Never said it was a bad thing. However, a PG grabbing rebounds underneath the basket isn't exactly ideal to start a fast break.

Time for Red to chime in...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z32dmWtozpk

Well for one, the only good outlet passer on the team is Sullinger, and the other thing is that the Celtics are in undersized team, so they need everyone to crash the boards. Rondo is an excellent re-bounder and he can see the floor well on the fast break.

[Eddie20]

Tommy said this yesterday during the post-game show while talking to Kyle Draper. Tommy said that Stevens has been preaching to push the ball up all year. Draper asked him what does he do if a player, in this case Rondo, doesn't listen. He responded "you sit him". To which Draper said, "but that's your captain, and Heinsohn responded "doesn't matter".

Heinsohn elaborated by stating that Rondo developed a lot of bad habits in playing for Doc because he grew to accustomed to walking the ball up the court. However, he spoke about how team was different and they ran plays in the halfcourt to perfection. This team can't execute like those veteran teams, so Rondo needs to get into sets faster to get shots in transition and have more time on the clock to run plays. His pounding of the ball was also criticized as another bad habit.

  I don't think it would hurt for Rondo to get the ball up the court a little faster but it probably wouldn't help much either. He advances the ball up court when there's a decent ballhandler ahead of him (Green or Bayless for instance) and hurries the ball up when there's a transition opportunity. The complaints that he doesn't hurry when the defense is back and there's no transition opportunity is just nonsense. Beyond that though, the fact that people are quick to jump on Rondo for running plays because the other players don't execute well is both ridiculous and unsurprising. How many people are talking about who the players that can't execute plays are or criticizing them in the thread? Not many if any. How many are using Rondo's trying to execute an offense as another reason to trade him? Hilarious.

Another criticism of mine is that he way too often crashes the defensive glass looking for rebounds. Now there is a time and place when that is warranted, but I've seen him do it on plenty of occasions where a teammate has the rebound pretty much in hand. So I'd much rather see Rondo start leaking out looking for the outlet pass to start our fast break rather than receiving the ball by the other teams basket. Again, he doesn't need to leak out all the time, but I honestly can't recall the last time I've seen him do it and receive an outlet pass from a teammate.

So a point guard grabbing rebounds to start the fast break or to start a play in case the defense runs back is all of a sudden a bad thing?

Never said it was a bad thing. However, a PG grabbing rebounds underneath the basket isn't exactly ideal to start a fast break.

Time for Red to chime in...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z32dmWtozpk

Well for one, the only good outlet passer on the team is Sullinger, and the other thing is that the Celtics are in undersized team, so they need everyone to crash the boards. Rondo is an excellent re-bounder and he can see the floor well on the fast break.

We're middle of the pack in terms of rebounding. We may be undersized, but we rebound decently. Sullinger and Olynyk are both good passers.

However, you asked if Rondo grabbing rebounds is bad for our fastbreak and it's definitely not a good thing. It allows the defense to get back in transition and matchup accordingly. Having Rondo receive a pass near halfcourt puts immediate pressure on the defense and will set up easy baskets. Don't you think?

[Eja117]

This is more of a team problem then Rondo.

No way man. The guy has the ball in his hands 80 percent of the time. 

Tommy is right. Take off your rondo jersey , take a shower and read again

Hyperbole is the single greatest thing in the universe.

by a wide margin of all time

[Tr1boy]

Beyond that though, the fact that people are quick to jump on Rondo for running plays because the other players don't execute well is both ridiculous and unsurprising. How many people are talking about who the players that can't execute plays are or criticizing them in the thread? Not many if any. How many are using Rondo's trying to execute an offense as another reason to trade him? Hilarious.

Well, I think you can't have it both ways.  If Rondo is the best player on the team, and he is truly a star, then the burden is on him to lead the team and do the right things to help the team succeed.  Arguably, with the talent and experience being what it is on this team, that means that we should expect Rondo to adjust. 

Rondo's preference clearly is to dominate the ball, and to really slow down the pace and run plays at the end of tight games.  That style made sense a few years ago.  It doesn't play to the strengths of the current team -- insofar as this team has strengths -- at all.


I guess what I'm saying is that you can't tout Rondo's passing ability and general prowess as a floor general on the one hand (i.e. he makes the players around him better), and then when the team is failing to score points late in games despite having such a good passer say, "Well, you can't blame Rondo for having bad teammates."

The team plays better when Rondo is on the floor and Rondo hasn't played thirty games yet. He's a great passer and a good floor general, however he's still recovering from knee surgery.

This current team plays better without Rondo on the floor.  Are you just watching Rondo play?

When Pressey or Bayless is on the floor, the offense flows better. Jeff Green actually plays better from what i seen. He gets to touch the ball a few times and becomes a better facilitator. Olynyk actually gets to touch a ball and his stats are much better. Our defense is much better bc pressey doesn't let his man get by so easily which prevents our defense from collapsing.

Rondo is not adaptable nor a pure pg like a Jason Kidd , who could play pretty much play with any kind of lineup and make everyone better. Rondo is still stuck/used playing with 3 HOF players (their tendencies), but they are not here. 

[pokeKingCurtis]

This is more of a team problem then Rondo.

No way man. The guy has the ball in his hands 80 percent of the time. 

Tommy is right. Take off your rondo jersey , take a shower and read again

Hyperbole is the single greatest thing in the universe.

by a wide margin of all time

I agree.

100% the greatest bestest mostest awesomest.

Second bestest is probably generalities. Like how all the draft picks this summer look like they have the "it" factor to be hall of famers. And how Kelly Olynyk has bust written all over.

[Tr1boy]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGe7GuY9Kuw

+1. There is a reason this guy won so many rings. I wish he was 10 years younger and coaching this team right now. Rondo would run, he would have to.  Even this team with lack of talent level would of won many more games, close to making the playoffs.  We would attract premium FA's that would die to play under a legend like Tommy. One can wish

[sed522002]

I think it's a mix of a Rondo problem and team inadequacy. For example, it was reported that Doc told CP3 he was dominating the ball too much, especially in last seasons playoffs and that's why they didn't get far. It was hard for him to grasp at first but when he got injured and saw Griffin flourishing by running the offense through him he was able to get on board.

I say this to say it's easy to relinquish the ball when you have trust that the teammates are going to make good plays and decisions, but Rondo also has to know when he's making things stagnant.

[Rondo9]

Beyond that though, the fact that people are quick to jump on Rondo for running plays because the other players don't execute well is both ridiculous and unsurprising. How many people are talking about who the players that can't execute plays are or criticizing them in the thread? Not many if any. How many are using Rondo's trying to execute an offense as another reason to trade him? Hilarious.

Well, I think you can't have it both ways.  If Rondo is the best player on the team, and he is truly a star, then the burden is on him to lead the team and do the right things to help the team succeed.  Arguably, with the talent and experience being what it is on this team, that means that we should expect Rondo to adjust. 

Rondo's preference clearly is to dominate the ball, and to really slow down the pace and run plays at the end of tight games.  That style made sense a few years ago.  It doesn't play to the strengths of the current team -- insofar as this team has strengths -- at all.


I guess what I'm saying is that you can't tout Rondo's passing ability and general prowess as a floor general on the one hand (i.e. he makes the players around him better), and then when the team is failing to score points late in games despite having such a good passer say, "Well, you can't blame Rondo for having bad teammates."

The team plays better when Rondo is on the floor and Rondo hasn't played thirty games yet. He's a great passer and a good floor general, however he's still recovering from knee surgery.

This current team plays better without Rondo on the floor.  Are you just watching Rondo play?

When Pressey or Bayless is on the floor, the offense flows better. Jeff Green actually plays better from what i seen. He gets to touch the ball a few times and becomes a better facilitator. Olynyk actually gets to touch a ball and his stats are much better. Our defense is much better bc pressey doesn't let his man get by so easily which prevents our defense from collapsing.

Rondo is not adaptable nor a pure pg like a Jason Kidd , who could play pretty much play with any kind of lineup and make everyone better. Rondo is still stuck/used playing with 3 HOF players (their tendencies), but they are not here.

Yet they always continue to lose Pressy is a limited point guard and Bayless is more of a combo guard, the defense is not better at all since they still have the same problems. Rondo will get better and the team will add more talent and hopefully Stevens will add more plays to his offense.

[PhoSita]

The team plays better when Rondo is on the floor and Rondo hasn't played thirty games yet. He's a great passer and a good floor general, however he's still recovering from knee surgery.

The fact that Rondo is still recovering from knee surgery affects his ability to score, particularly his finishing in the paint.  I don't think it has anything to do with his decision making as far as slowing things way down at the end of the game and trying to run plays while running the clock down.

[Kevin OConnor]

Where is the quote from? Where's the link?

I would love to read the whole article to put the quote in the proper context because the OP is leading us to believe Heinsohn is talking about holding the ball too much on offense but that's not said in the quote. It could be Rondo's habit of coasting on defense or Rondo's habit of passing up open layups for a kick out jumper that he is talking about for all I know.

There's a big article on the front page of CB that should have anything you'd want to see, Nick.

TP thanks Boris. I don't visit the front page anymore.

You should start! =)

[pokeKingCurtis]

Beyond that though, the fact that people are quick to jump on Rondo for running plays because the other players don't execute well is both ridiculous and unsurprising. How many people are talking about who the players that can't execute plays are or criticizing them in the thread? Not many if any. How many are using Rondo's trying to execute an offense as another reason to trade him? Hilarious.

Well, I don't think you can have it both ways.  If Rondo is the best player on the team, and he is truly a star, then the burden is on him to lead the team and do the right things to help the team succeed.  Arguably, with the talent and experience being what it is on this team, that means that we should expect Rondo to adjust. 

Rondo's preference clearly is to dominate the ball, and to really slow down the pace and run plays at the end of tight games.  That style made sense a few years ago.  It doesn't play to the strengths of the current team -- insofar as this team has strengths -- at all.


I guess what I'm saying is that you can't tout Rondo's passing ability and general prowess as a floor general on the one hand (i.e. he makes the players around him better), and then when the team is failing to score points late in games despite having such a good passer say, "Well, you can't blame Rondo for having bad teammates."

The fact that he's jumping in in the middle of the season with an almost completely new team, I'd say, would have an effect on his play.

The very nature of Rondo's game requires at least some familiarity between him and his teammates. He needs a feel that comes through practice.

For now, between injuries, having only limited "access" to his teammates and learning a new system and more, I'd say he's doing a decent job.

I wouldn't use this season as a whole to judge any player or combination of players on the team in a negative light, just going to take positives. The Lee trade and the J-Craw trade seemed to have done a number on the team's chemistry.

[Rondo9]

I agree with the poser above.