Parker out, Wiggins on his way out.

[LilRip]

If Wiggins turns out to be T-Mac without the injuries, then I'll be absolutely ecstatic. T-Mac was one of the best in the league in his prime. The crazy thing is, Wiggind absolutely has the potential to be like T-Mac.

I think the "hype" has built up a ton of unfair expectations, where I think some people expect these rookies are going to come in an start playing at an MVP-level like current day Lebron or Durant.

[wahz]

anyone talking smack about parker or wiggins will be popping the cork if we somehow pull off drafting either of these guys.

Wiggins is potentially such a disaster that I will not be doing that. Game after game after game he does almost nothing. I watch and ask: "did he defend?" and I often answer, " kind of."

Nobody cares less than Wiggins.  I hope we are competing against him, ASSUMING equivalent talent

[Eddie20]

Been saying since the summer that these kids had to be seen under the microscope of the NCAA season before declaring them franchise cornerstone future superstars. Now that the season is over for many of these kids, I think its fairly obvious that most of these kids aren't going to come anywhere near the expectations and hype that so many in the media built these kids up to be.

To be fair though, you're really hard on college kids and usually think they'll either fail or underperform. I mean before the summer league even began you were going on and on about how Olynyk would be out of the league entirely in a year.

Who exactly do you like this year?

[D.o.s.]

anyone talking smack about parker or wiggins will be popping the cork if we somehow pull off drafting either of these guys.

Wiggins is potentially such a disaster that I will not be doing that. Game after game after game he does almost nothing. I watch and ask: "did he defend?" and I often answer, " kind of."

Nobody cares less than Wiggins.  I hope we are competing against him, ASSUMING equivalent talent

I can't get behind any of this "intangibles" stuff, sorry. Especially when you characterize his freshman season as doing almost nothing -- especially after Embiid went down.

[nickagneta]

Been saying since the summer that these kids had to be seen under the microscope of the NCAA season before declaring them franchise cornerstone future superstars. Now that the season is over for many of these kids, I think its fairly obvious that most of these kids aren't going to come anywhere near the expectations and hype that so many in the media built these kids up to be.

To be fair though, you're really hard on college kids and usually think they'll either fail or underperform. I mean before the summer league even began you were going on and on about how Olynyk would be out of the league entirely in a year.

Who exactly do you like this year?

I don't like Olynyk's game. Never will. Not my type of player and still not sold he is as good as you think he is. When I am wrong I am wrong and admit i. I think this is the second time I have acknowledged I am wrong about Olynyk. So enough with bringing him up as an answer to every response on an opinion I have. I am pretty sure that's not cool.

I guess you must have missed my posts declaring Wiggins as my most probable pick if the C's got the #1 pick. You must have also missed my pick I wanted and called for a lot which was Michael Carter Williams and I have also declared my love of Nerlens Noel as a player.

This year I think Wiggins and Parker and maybe Ennis could be the best of this draft class when all is said and done. I think those three could be anywhere from Melo-Bosh great to Jeff Green good. The best chance of landing a cornerstone guy is Wiggins but I have serious reservations about him being mentally tough enough to be the best of the best.

[indeedproceed]

I'm more bullish on the draft class than Nick is I guess. I think the college game now has way more parity than it did when Melo was in school (the consummate measure of a one-and-done, and probably the most impressive performance by a freshman I've ever seen). I say that because of who actually knocked off the top seeds. Teams stocked with 4-year players, teams used to playing together. Then you get these alledged superstar teams, and you forget they're populated with blue chip talent that is never together in any meaningful way for more than a year.

The biggest things I learned this season regarding Parker-Wiggins-Embid-Randle-Gordon-Smart is that Parker's athleticism could be a major hurdle at playing the 3, Wiggins and Embiid aren't fully cooked yet, and Randle/Gordon's ceiling is lower than people thought.

I still think there is at least 1, maybe 2 superstars in this draft , and 5 or so guys with multiple all-star games in their future, minimum. We'll see how they develope but if we wound up with Parker/Wiggins/Embiid, I'm still going to celebrate like we made the Finals. Talent is just such a commodity , it's still a golden goose worth tanking for.

[Eddie20]

Been saying since the summer that these kids had to be seen under the microscope of the NCAA season before declaring them franchise cornerstone future superstars. Now that the season is over for many of these kids, I think its fairly obvious that most of these kids aren't going to come anywhere near the expectations and hype that so many in the media built these kids up to be.

To be fair though, you're really hard on college kids and usually think they'll either fail or underperform. I mean before the summer league even began you were going on and on about how Olynyk would be out of the league entirely in a year.

Who exactly do you like this year?

I don't like Olynyk's game. Never will. Not my type of player and still not sold he is as good as you think he is. When I am wrong I am wrong and admit i. I think this is the second time I have acknowledged I am wrong about Olynyk. So enough with bringing him up as an answer to every response on an opinion I have. I am pretty sure that's not cool.

I guess you must have missed my posts declaring Wiggins as my most probable pick if the C's got the #1 pick. You must have also missed my pick I wanted and called for a lot which was Michael Carter Williams and I have also declared my love of Nerlens Noel as a player.

This year I think Wiggins and Parker and maybe Ennis could be the best of this draft class when all is said and done. I think those three could be anywhere from Melo-Bosh great to Jeff Green good. The best chance of landing a cornerstone guy is Wiggins but I have serious reservations about him being mentally tough enough to be the best of the best.

It just appears as though you make up your mind prematurely on many of these "kids" and then struggle mightily to come around.

[D.o.s.]

And, of course, he's the only poster to do such a thing on CB...

[PhoSita]

I'm more bullish on the draft class than Nick is I guess. I think the college game now has way more parity than it did when Melo was in school (the consummate measure of a one-and-done, and probably the most impressive performance by a freshman I've ever seen). I say that because of who actually knocked off the top seeds. Teams stocked with 4-year players, teams used to playing together. Then you get these alledged superstar teams, and you forget they're populated with blue chip talent that is never together in any meaningful way for more than a year.

The biggest things I learned this season regarding Parker-Wiggins-Embid-Randle-Gordon-Smart is that Parker's athleticism could be a major hurdle at playing the 3, Wiggins and Embiid aren't fully cooked yet, and Randle/Gordon's ceiling is lower than people thought.

I still think there is at least 1, maybe 2 superstars in this draft , and 5 or so guys with multiple all-star games in their future, minimum. We'll see how they develope but if we wound up with Parker/Wiggins/Embiid, I'm still going to celebrate like we made the Finals. Talent is just such a commodity , it's still a golden goose worth tanking for.

Agree with all of this.

It'll be interesting if Parker gets drafted by a team that chooses to use him as a stretch 4 from the get go.  Parker is most often compared to Melo, and Melo has had a lot of success playing at the 4, but hasn't stuck there consistently during his career.  I'd be intrigued to see Parker's career trajectory as a mismatch-creating stretch 4. 

Obviously he'd need to be next to a big center with a real paint presence.  Noel, Vucevic, Sanders, or Favors could be that presence, though.

[MBunge]

I'm more bullish on the draft class than Nick is I guess. I think the college game now has way more parity than it did when Melo was in school (the consummate measure of a one-and-done, and probably the most impressive performance by a freshman I've ever seen). I say that because of who actually knocked off the top seeds. Teams stocked with 4-year players, teams used to playing together. Then you get these alledged superstar teams, and you forget they're populated with blue chip talent that is never together in any meaningful way for more than a year.

The biggest things I learned this season regarding Parker-Wiggins-Embid-Randle-Gordon-Smart is that Parker's athleticism could be a major hurdle at playing the 3, Wiggins and Embiid aren't fully cooked yet, and Randle/Gordon's ceiling is lower than people thought.

I still think there is at least 1, maybe 2 superstars in this draft , and 5 or so guys with multiple all-star games in their future, minimum. We'll see how they develope but if we wound up with Parker/Wiggins/Embiid, I'm still going to celebrate like we made the Finals. Talent is just such a commodity , it's still a golden goose worth tanking for.

Not to flog this deceased equine, but talent like what you're talking about is NOT worth tanking for.  Talent like that is a ticket straight to the hell of being a mid-to-low playoff team that spends years without ever having a chance a winning a title.  The ONLY justification for tanking is to get a LeBron or a Duncan or a Bird or a Magic.  It's not to get a "superstar" and not for guy who goes to a few all-star games.

Mike

[D.o.s.]

 

Surely you see the benefit of having an All-Star talent on a rookie scale contract. As opposed to, you know, not having that.

[MBunge]

Surely you see the benefit of having an All-Star talent on a rookie scale contract. As opposed to, you know, not having that.

Not if I have to rid my team of 2 or three quality role players and guarantee myself another 2 to 3 years of bad basketball to do it.  You don't tank to wind up winning 45 games and battling for the 8th spot in the West or the 5th spot in the East.

Mike

[nickagneta]

Surely you see the benefit of having an All-Star talent on a rookie scale contract. As opposed to, you know, not having that.

But are you saying the only way to draft an All-Star level talent is only at the top of a deep draft? Are you saying that if the C's don't tank and end up with the 7th or 8th pick that they stand no chance of drafting an All-Star level talent in this deep draft?

I don't think you are saying that but it kind of can be strongly inferred by how you wrote that.

I think Mike is saying that if there is a Lebron or Bird or Magic or MJ or Duncan available, then yeah, tank like heck to get that #1 pick but if not and you have only talent that looks to be just All-Star level talent that tanking isn't worth it because if you have a great scouting department then you are just as likely to find All-Star level talent down in the draft as you are at the top. Danny has already proven this with picks like Al Jefferson, Rajon Rondo, and possibly Jared Sullinger that took place later in the draft.

I'm not to concerned about where the C's end up in this draft because I think Ainge will pull out the best talent he can regardless of where he is picking though, yes, it would be nice to land a top 3 pick but I don't see that as "if they don't end up with a top 3 pick then they probably will end up without an All Star level talent" type of thing.

[D.o.s.]

Surely you see the benefit of having an All-Star talent on a rookie scale contract. As opposed to, you know, not having that.

Not if I have to rid my team of 2 or three quality role players and guarantee myself another 2 to 3 years of bad basketball to do it.  You don't tank to wind up winning 45 games and battling for the 8th spot in the West or the 5th spot in the East.

Mike

Sure you do. The Blazers and Warriors both did it -- and they're right where they want to be.

Surely you see the benefit of having an All-Star talent on a rookie scale contract. As opposed to, you know, not having that.

But are you saying the only way to draft an All-Star level talent is only at the top of a deep draft? Are you saying that if the C's don't tank and end up with the 7th or 8th pick that they stand no chance of drafting an All-Star level talent in this deep draft?

I don't think you are saying that but it kind of can be strongly inferred by how you wrote that.

I think Mike is saying that if there is a Lebron or Bird or Magic or MJ or Duncan available, then yeah, tank like heck to get that #1 pick but if not and you have only talent that looks to be just All-Star level talent that tanking isn't worth it because if you have a great scouting department then you are just as likely to find All-Star level talent down in the draft as you are at the top. Danny has already proven this with picks like Al Jefferson, Rajon Rondo, and possibly Jared Sullinger that took place later in the draft.

I'm not to concerned about where the C's end up in this draft because I think Ainge will pull out the best talent he can regardless of where he is picking though, yes, it would be nice to land a top 3 pick but I don't see that as "if they don't end up with a top 3 pick then they probably will end up without an All Star level talent" type of thing.

Right, I take issue with the absolutes. Teams tank all the time, to different scales, for different reasons. It's not just a strip-mine effort.

[clover]

Been saying since the summer that these kids had to be seen under the microscope of the NCAA season before declaring them franchise cornerstone future superstars. Now that the season is over for many of these kids, I think its fairly obvious that most of these kids aren't going to come anywhere near the expectations and hype that so many in the media built these kids up to be.

To be fair though, you're really hard on college kids and usually think they'll either fail or underperform. I mean before the summer league even began you were going on and on about how Olynyk would be out of the league entirely in a year.

Who exactly do you like this year?

I don't like Olynyk's game. Never will. Not my type of player and still not sold he is as good as you think he is. When I am wrong I am wrong and admit i. I think this is the second time I have acknowledged I am wrong about Olynyk. So enough with bringing him up as an answer to every response on an opinion I have. I am pretty sure that's not cool.

I guess you must have missed my posts declaring Wiggins as my most probable pick if the C's got the #1 pick. You must have also missed my pick I wanted and called for a lot which was Michael Carter Williams and I have also declared my love of Nerlens Noel as a player.

This year I think Wiggins and Parker and maybe Ennis could be the best of this draft class when all is said and done. I think those three could be anywhere from Melo-Bosh great to Jeff Green good. The best chance of landing a cornerstone guy is Wiggins but I have serious reservations about him being mentally tough enough to be the best of the best.

Is Embiid not your type of player either?