Any Truth to Scout's Rondo Comments?

[D.o.s.]

You don't build a serious contender for the title around a PG.

How is this such an absolute?

[footey]

I love Rondo, from an entertainment POV. I am not sure if he will be a critical part of our next championship.  The ball does not move as much when he is in the game.  Remember how the total team assists actually went up when he went down with his injury last year.  His lack of a good outside shot is also a real problem.  Dick Vitale hated Rondo when he was going into the draft, said he just pounded the ball all game.  Don't know if he changed his opinion about Rondo, but it seems similar to this anonymous scout.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

You don't build a serious contender for the title around a PG.

The Clippers seems to be heading the right direction.

I think you forgot about Griffin and Crawford

I did not. CP3 is the main piece of that team. They are building around him, not Blake. I think everyone can agree to that.

Heck, they are catering to him to sign an extension. Remember that?

[Celtics18]

By my count, during the 33 years that I've followed the NBA, the best players on a championship by position are as follows:

Point guard: 6 (Johnson 3, Thomas 2, Billups 1)
Shooting Guard:  8 (Jordan 6, Bryant 2, Wade 1)
Small forward: 6 (Bird 3, Erving 1, James 2)
Power Forward:  6 (Duncan 4, Garnett 1, Nowitzki 1)
Center:  6  ('Neal 3, Olajuwon 2, Jabbar 1)

That doesn't exactly tell me you can't build a champion around a point guard. 

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

I think we need to take a minute to digest the difference between uncommon, and impossible, the way this debate is headed, I think it is important.

[Fan from VT]

By my count, during the 33 years that I've followed the NBA, the best players on a championship by position are as follows:

Point guard: 6 (Johnson 3, Thomas 2, Billups 1)
Shooting Guard:  8 (Jordan 6, Bryant 2, Wade 1)
Small forward: 6 (Bird 3, Erving 1, James 2)
Power Forward:  6 (Duncan 4, Garnett 1, Nowitzki 1)
Center:  6  ('Neal 3, Olajuwon 2, Jabbar 1)

That doesn't exactly tell me you can't build a champion around a point guard.

First, i totally agree with your overall point. Its arbitrary what position the franchiae player is. You kust need a great player. A few quibbles though: i think you only have 4 lakers titles accounted for with 1 jabar and 3 magics. I think shaq and wade get a half each for the heat title; shaq was still very good that year. I'd give gasol one of the new laker titles. And i wouldnt count any individual from the pistons team, too close to call. Lots say billups by default, but b wallace was a beast and dominant defensively, which was their calling card. And r wallace was probably the best overall player, with his then dominant defense and offensive flexibility being the real key to that team.

[paidthecost2betheboss]

I see more evidence that Bigfoot, or even that the Loch Ness Monster exists, than an NBA scout that believes there are 40 pgs better than Rondo. Even 40 players.

Outside of the obvious hyperbole with the 40 PGs, I agree that Rondo is not one of the first players or even first PGs I'd choose if trying to build a franchise from the ground up.

Still waiting for Chris Paul, Kyrie, John Wall, or Russell Westbrook to actually accomplish something in the post season.  Not like CP3 or Russell don't have great teammates around them.

I signed in just to give you a TP.

I gotta add something.

The 2008 Celtics beat the 2013 Heat. The 2008 Lakers beat the 2013 Heat.

Rondo was on that team. 2nd season as a starter trying to exist in an offense based on exquisite timing and tough defense. Rondo never looked like he didn't belong despite being in his 2nd year as a pro and Paul made a lot of his own shots but he got fed and Ray and K.G. got fed by that kid. He has only grown better under the BIG time lights. Westbrook and Durant at about the same age and primed couldn't combine to take out the Heat. They got no killer instinct. Lebron and a slowed hobbled Wade do.
That's why they got rings. Kobe...he got rings. Dwight, Durant, Westbrook, CP3 , Love, and all them got jack squat.

We are running a winner out of town. Stevens...you think he's ever gonna get us rings and banners being Danny's lap dog? Who wants to come here? This episode about Rondo is more damaging to the Celtics than Rondo. Somewhere Pat Riley is laughing. We are hanging our only star out to dry months before a contract offer or a trade.

The title of this thread...it makes my head hurt. You have all lost your minds.

A bird in the hand....

[BballTim]

By my count, during the 33 years that I've followed the NBA, the best players on a championship by position are as follows:

Point guard: 6 (Johnson 3, Thomas 2, Billups 1)
Shooting Guard:  8 (Jordan 6, Bryant 2, Wade 1)
Small forward: 6 (Bird 3, Erving 1, James 2)
Power Forward:  6 (Duncan 4, Garnett 1, Nowitzki 1)
Center:  6  ('Neal 3, Olajuwon 2, Jabbar 1)

That doesn't exactly tell me you can't build a champion around a point guard.

First, i totally agree with your overall point. Its arbitrary what position the franchiae player is. You kust need a great player. A few quibbles though: i think you only have 4 lakers titles accounted for with 1 jabar and 3 magics. I think shaq and wade get a half each for the heat title; shaq was still very good that year. I'd give gasol one of the new laker titles. And i wouldnt count any individual from the pistons team, too close to call. Lots say billups by default, but b wallace was a beast and dominant defensively, which was their calling card. And r wallace was probably the best overall player, with his then dominant defense and offensive flexibility being the real key to that team.

  He misspelled O'Neal but he has him in there for centers. Rasheed was probably the most talented player on that team but not the best player, I'd put Billups and BW over him.
I'd probably put Shaq over Wade despite Wade's great finals, but that's not going to change the numbers much.

[timpiker]

There's some truth to it.

We already had a thread on this, I think?

There is some truth to it.  At least from a fan's perspective.  Obviously I don't know how he is with his teammates and coaches.  To me, he appears aloof and he looks like he tries when it suits him.  And as far as his defense, sure looks to me that other PG's can penetrate whenever they want.  I've always thought his D sucked.  His last ditch hope defense is to try to poke it away as his man goes by.

[TheFlex]

I see more evidence that Bigfoot, or even that the Loch Ness Monster exists, than an NBA scout that believes there are 40 pgs better than Rondo. Even 40 players.

Outside of the obvious hyperbole with the 40 PGs, I agree that Rondo is not one of the first players or even first PGs I'd choose if trying to build a franchise from the ground up.

Still waiting for Chris Paul, Kyrie, John Wall, or Russell Westbrook to actually accomplish something in the post season.  Not like CP3 or Russell don't have great teammates around them.

I signed in just to give you a TP.

I gotta add something.

The 2008 Celtics beat the 2013 Heat. The 2008 Lakers beat the 2013 Heat.

Rondo was on that team. 2nd season as a starter trying to exist in an offense based on exquisite timing and tough defense. Rondo never looked like he didn't belong despite being in his 2nd year as a pro and Paul made a lot of his own shots but he got fed and Ray and K.G. got fed by that kid. He has only grown better under the BIG time lights. Westbrook and Durant at about the same age and primed couldn't combine to take out the Heat. They got no killer instinct. Lebron and a slowed hobbled Wade do.
That's why they got rings. Kobe...he got rings. Dwight, Durant, Westbrook, CP3 , Love, and all them got jack squat.

We are running a winner out of town. Stevens...you think he's ever gonna get us rings and banners being Danny's lap dog? Who wants to come here? This episode about Rondo is more damaging to the Celtics than Rondo. Somewhere Pat Riley is laughing. We are hanging our only star out to dry months before a contract offer or a trade.

The title of this thread...it makes my head hurt. You have all lost your minds.

A bird in the hand....

When the C's won the title, Rondo was at best the fourth best player on the team. It is debatable whether Rondo was their best player in 2010; personally, at that point, I still say KG.

CP3, Wall, and Kyrie have been the defined alpha dog on their respective teams since they came into the league. Russell went to the Finals as the second best player on his team, just as Rondo did.

[fairweatherfan]

I see more evidence that Bigfoot, or even that the Loch Ness Monster exists, than an NBA scout that believes there are 40 pgs better than Rondo. Even 40 players.

Outside of the obvious hyperbole with the 40 PGs, I agree that Rondo is not one of the first players or even first PGs I'd choose if trying to build a franchise from the ground up.

Still waiting for Chris Paul, Kyrie, John Wall, or Russell Westbrook to actually accomplish something in the post season.  Not like CP3 or Russell don't have great teammates around them.

Making the Finals isn't "accomplishing something"?  Is this that weird line of reasoning where a championship is the only thing that means anything and anything less just means you're tied for biggest loser?

[Fan from VT]

By my count, during the 33 years that I've followed the NBA, the best players on a championship by position are as follows:

Point guard: 6 (Johnson 3, Thomas 2, Billups 1)
Shooting Guard:  8 (Jordan 6, Bryant 2, Wade 1)
Small forward: 6 (Bird 3, Erving 1, James 2)
Power Forward:  6 (Duncan 4, Garnett 1, Nowitzki 1)
Center:  6  ('Neal 3, Olajuwon 2, Jabbar 1)

That doesn't exactly tell me you can't build a champion around a point guard.

First, i totally agree with your overall point. Its arbitrary what position the franchiae player is. You kust need a great player. A few quibbles though: i think you only have 4 lakers titles accounted for with 1 jabar and 3 magics. I think shaq and wade get a half each for the heat title; shaq was still very good that year. I'd give gasol one of the new laker titles. And i wouldnt count any individual from the pistons team, too close to call. Lots say billups by default, but b wallace was a beast and dominant defensively, which was their calling card. And r wallace was probably the best overall player, with his then dominant defense and offensive flexibility being the real key to that team.

  He misspelled O'Neal but he has him in there for centers. Rasheed was probably the most talented player on that team but not the best player, I'd put Billups and BW over him.
I'd probably put Shaq over Wade despite Wade's great finals, but that's not going to change the numbers much.

sorry, was typing on a phone so i should have been clearer. I only see 4 Magic era lakers titles accounted for (1 jabar, 3 magic), so one of those two should get another point (or a split). Then I see the 3 O'neal laker titles (which I agree), then I would give Wade a 0.5 and Oneal another 0.5 for the Miami title. then one of the Kobe points should go to Gasol. Sheed was the best 2 way player on that team; they do not make playoff noise without him.

PG: 5.833 (magic 3.5, thomas 2, Billups .333)
SG 7.5 (jordan 6, wade .5, kobe 1)
SF 5.5 (Bird 3, DRJ .5, James 2)
PF 7.333 (KG 1, Duncan 4, Dirk 1, Gasol 1, Sheed .333)
C 7.833 (Shaq 3.5, Moses .5, olajuwan 2, jabar 1.5)

[Eja117]

I see more evidence that Bigfoot, or even that the Loch Ness Monster exists, than an NBA scout that believes there are 40 pgs better than Rondo. Even 40 players.

Outside of the obvious hyperbole with the 40 PGs, I agree that Rondo is not one of the first players or even first PGs I'd choose if trying to build a franchise from the ground up.

Still waiting for Chris Paul, Kyrie, John Wall, or Russell Westbrook to actually accomplish something in the post season.  Not like CP3 or Russell don't have great teammates around them.

Making the Finals isn't "accomplishing something"?  Is this that weird line of reasoning where a championship is the only thing that means anything and anything less just means you're tied for biggest loser?

You can't possibly say that these guys have accomplished more than Rondo. Add Rose to the list too.

[ssspence]

By my count, during the 33 years that I've followed the NBA, the best players on a championship by position are as follows:

Point guard: 6 (Johnson 3, Thomas 2, Billups 1)
Shooting Guard:  8 (Jordan 6, Bryant 2, Wade 1)
Small forward: 6 (Bird 3, Erving 1, James 2)
Power Forward:  6 (Duncan 4, Garnett 1, Nowitzki 1)
Center:  6  ('Neal 3, Olajuwon 2, Jabbar 1)

That doesn't exactly tell me you can't build a champion around a point guard.

Remove Kobe and Wade, and add those tallies to Shaq -- he's not there, those guys are golfing by the conference finals. What you basically have left is arguably the two best players of all time.

That this argument persists on this blog insults the collective intelligence of the group, IMO. Objectively, it's crystal clear that building around ANY guard significantly reduces the likelihood of winning in the NBA.

It's entirely homer to believe that Ainge intends to "build around" Rondo, and it has nothing to do with whether Rondo's the 5th best PG or the 7th best PG or the 40th best PG. It's not a worldly POV.

Hopefully we can keep Rondo, and find our franchise player another way. But Ainge shops Rondo because he recognizes he must consider all options in finding that long-term cornerstone. 

 

[paidthecost2betheboss]

I see more evidence that Bigfoot, or even that the Loch Ness Monster exists, than an NBA scout that believes there are 40 pgs better than Rondo. Even 40 players.

Outside of the obvious hyperbole with the 40 PGs, I agree that Rondo is not one of the first players or even first PGs I'd choose if trying to build a franchise from the ground up.

Still waiting for Chris Paul, Kyrie, John Wall, or Russell Westbrook to actually accomplish something in the post season.  Not like CP3 or Russell don't have great teammates around them.

Making the Finals isn't "accomplishing something"?  Is this that weird line of reasoning where a championship is the only thing that means anything and anything less just means you're tied for biggest loser?

Weird line of reasoning? Are you serious? Who cares who was #2? Making it to the finals means nothing and winning it means everything.

They don't give you rings for making it to the finals. They give you rings for winning the championship.