Author Topic: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots  (Read 9270 times)

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The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« on: February 21, 2014, 09:46:28 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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There's a lot of basketball yet to be played, but the race to the bottom is taking shape.

Right now we have ORL, PHI and MIL all in full-scale tank mode and with some distance between themselves and the next four teams. They look like good bets to take the 1-3 lottery slots.

This leaves the Celtics in a logjam with UTA, LAL and SAC for the 4th-7th slots. As of today these four teams are all within 1.5 games of each other:

             W       L      PCT
Utah         19     34     .358   
Boston       19     36     .345   
LA Lakers    18     36     .333   
Sacramento   18     36     .333


The consensus seems to be that drafting in the top 3 would be great but that also, drafting 4-5 is significantly better than drafting 6th or 7th.

My goal isn't really to debate that, but merely to point something out: if one cares about having either a top 3 or top 5 pick, the lottery odds really, really punish the 6th and 7th positions relative to the 4th and 5th. So, how things play out with us and those other three teams is critical.

Here's a quick look at the chances of having a top 3 and a top 5 pick, by lottery position.

            Top 3       Top 5
4th         37.8%       82.8%
5th         29.2%       55.3%
6th         21.5%       21.5%
7th         15.0%       15.0%

As you can see, there's a big drop-off in the first column, but the real jawdropper is the second. Falling from 4th to 7th reduces the chance at a top 5 pick from 83% to 15%. This is just massive.

And right now that difference - the difference between an 85% shot at one of the top 5,  and a 15% shot at one of those guys - that difference is coming from less than 2 games in the standings.

I wanted to wait until after the trade deadline to avoid discussions about whether we should trade talent away.

With the deadline past it's going to be an interesting last bit of the season here, and I think all eyes should be on those other three teams, for us as Celtics fans. Here's a quick and incomplete scouting report:

1. UTA has actually been playing well since Burke joined the lineup full-time; they're 18-20 and almost a .500 team since then. I think they have a good chance of finishing strong, with the caveat that they are in the West. They have a critical 6-game road trip against mostly bad teams in the East: that's something to watch.

2. SAC has been playing consistent .333 ball all year, and there's little to expect in the way of change except the recent injury to Isaiah Thomas, which he appears to be playing through, and the trade of Marcus Thornton to the Nets. It'll be interesting to see whether McLemore and Terry can pick up the (minimal) slack created by Thornton's departure. (The Kings were trying to unload Jason Thompson but failed to cut a deal at the deadline).

3. LAL are the real wild card here. Kobe and Nash are unknown quantities; will they come back and at what level? How much will losing Steve Blake, who they traded today, hurt? Luckily for Celtics fans the Lakers were unable to off-load Pau Gasol, but one can easily envision the Lakers really taking a nosedive.

Anyway for us lottery odds-watchers, I think these three other teams are the ones to watch. Interested to hear what others think...



Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2014, 09:56:55 AM »

Offline beantownboy171

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Yup, you're spot on with this analysis. What worries me is that the jazz, kings and lakers are all is the western conference and will play mostly western conference teams during the last month of the season. the west is so much better top to bottom.

I'm hoping for the #5 slot. I don't think we can pass the lakers. But I don't see the Jazz passing us. The team to watch I think is the Kings. They actually have a pretty decent roster, but can't seem to win games.

Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2014, 10:03:47 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Honestly I know having a top 5 pick is better than 6th/7th and dropping further would suck, but the expected value of the 6/7 picks isn't that different from 4/5.

Especially if this truly is a deep lottery like we've been hearing.

Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2014, 10:11:11 AM »

Offline PaulAllen

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THe month of March will be brutal for the Celtics.. They have Indy a few times ,OKC, GS, MIA, DAl, PHX and a few other playoff teams.. so they may be able to make ground.. but again nothing stands pat aka THE LOTTERY..

However a 6th or 7th pick could still land players like Smart, Randle, Vonleah, or Gordon..

my gut feeling is that Danny will still try to make a big trade which includes this pick, unless its a player he couldnt pass up, but in a once in a decade draft its not bad to be 6th/7th..

Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2014, 10:18:40 AM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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Yup, you're spot on with this analysis. What worries me is that the jazz, kings and lakers are all is the western conference and will play mostly western conference teams during the last month of the season. the west is so much better top to bottom.

I'm hoping for the #5 slot. I don't think we can pass the lakers. But I don't see the Jazz passing us. The team to watch I think is the Kings. They actually have a pretty decent roster, but can't seem to win games.
i think #5 is a realistic expectation. Orl. Lal, mil, phi are all notably worse than us.

Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 10:29:53 AM »

Offline TwinTower14

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Yup, you're spot on with this analysis. What worries me is that the jazz, kings and lakers are all is the western conference and will play mostly western conference teams during the last month of the season. the west is so much better top to bottom.

I'm hoping for the #5 slot. I don't think we can pass the lakers. But I don't see the Jazz passing us. The team to watch I think is the Kings. They actually have a pretty decent roster, but can't seem to win games.
i think #5 is a realistic expectation. Orl. Lal, mil, phi are all notably worse than us.

Yea I agree - I think they will be in the 5-7 range.  The C's schedule in March is crazy, not a lot of W's in that window...

Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2014, 10:42:02 AM »

Offline LilRip

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i think the Jazz and the Kings move up in the standings, especially if they can get healthy.

i predict another big losing streak again for the C's (showcase time is over!). Agree that LA is a complete wildcard. I don't think losing Blake will hurt because Marshall is there, but i don't see either Kobe or Nash returning this year.

- LilRip

Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2014, 10:58:56 AM »

Offline TwinTower14

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in regards to picking 6th or 7th - I would be fine if the C's walked away with Vonhleh with their first pick.  You could do a lot worse than that?  I am actually fine with a lot of the guys in the top 10, especially if Rondo is still here.  Say they came away with one of ( Randle, Vonleh, Grant, Hood or Gordon)  My preference would be Vonleh but any of those guys I would be happy with. 

Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2014, 11:11:36 AM »

Offline Mr October

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Honestly I know having a top 5 pick is better than 6th/7th and dropping further would suck, but the expected value of the 6/7 picks isn't that different from 4/5.

Especially if this truly is a deep lottery like we've been hearing.

This is how i am starting to see it as well. The top 3 are set. But then exum and randle's translation to the pro game isn't much more certain than Aaron Gordon and Noah vonleh. Teams who need point guards are going to give smart and ennis a serious look in that range too.

I think the celtics will land around 5 or 6. The kings feel like the celtics' equal in the standings.

Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2014, 11:18:34 AM »

Offline TwinTower14

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Honestly I know having a top 5 pick is better than 6th/7th and dropping further would suck, but the expected value of the 6/7 picks isn't that different from 4/5.

Especially if this truly is a deep lottery like we've been hearing.

This is how i am starting to see it as well. The top 3 are set. But then exum and randle's translation to the pro game isn't much more certain than Aaron Gordon and Noah vonleh. Teams who need point guards are going to give smart and ennis a serious look in that range too.

I think the celtics will land around 5 or 6. The kings feel like the celtics' equal in the standings.

definitely could see the Kings looking at Ennis, they need a pass first PG...

Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2014, 11:22:44 AM »

Offline VitorSullyandKOFan

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I think Orl, Sac and Utah will win a lot of games in the 2nd half.

Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2014, 11:24:39 AM »

Offline crafty213

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Would not really worry about it. Ainge will move the pick on draft night anyways as part of a much bigger deal.

Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2014, 11:27:50 AM »

Offline Mr October

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I think Orl, Sac and Utah will win a lot of games in the 2nd half.

Utah has been on a near .500 roll for a while now. I expect them to keep rising.

Orlando is the real disappointment. They have some talent, but cant put it together. They just lost to the Bucks.

Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 11:41:30 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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What's much more interesting in the lotto is Memphis -- the 30-23 lottery team.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: The perils of the 6th/7th lottery slots
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 11:41:32 AM »

Offline moiso

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Would not really worry about it. Ainge will move the pick on draft night anyways as part of a much bigger deal.
The higher the pick, the bigger the deal.