Sean Grande: Celtics could become surprise buyers

[Who]

There isn't much top talent on the market so I am not expecting Ainge to get any big trades done now. Better chance in the summer.

I think it will be mostly complementary pieces that are in the offing. With Omer Asik being the best of the bunch.

Question for anybody and not just Who, but is it really "buying" if Ainge moves a Bass or Green for Asik? Or more "shuffling of pieces"?

What constitutes a GM "buying"?

Giving up something of high future value.

(1) Taking on extra payroll
(2) Bringing in player at cost of pick(s) and/or prospect(s)
(3) Trading a long term piece of the puzzle [Rondo, J.Green] for better long term piece

As for Asik, I think Bass for Asik would count because you are bringing in a player on a higher contract who you will want to resign to an expensive contract in exchange for a player you will probably discard in 18 months in Bass. So financial (extra payroll). Asik for J.Green, I think that is debatable and depends how you rate each player. I would look at it as a lateral move. One quality starter for another, both long term pieces.

[Smokeeye123]

Seems like Ainge is shopping OUR 2014 Lottery Pick....the way teams are desperately tanking---Some team might call with the right offer.

But see wouldnt that only make sense on draft night? If Minnesota wanted to trade Love they'd want to make sure they are getting a top 5 pick.

[LarBrd33]

The only thing that would surprise me is Boston standing pat. 

Nothing else would surprise me.   Danny doesn't have a concrete plan.  He'll either make trades to help us win now or help us win later.  He'll jump on the best opportunity.

[aingeforthree]

To be fair to Grande, I do think it's at least plausible that Ainge could make a move or two to add Asik or Monroe and maybe somebody like Afflalo or Eric Gordon, if he really wanted to, and doing so would make the team good enough to probably be a middle playoff seed next season.


But would it really be worth doing so?  Almost certainly not.

Depends on how they ultimately fit for the future.  I thought similar to what you did, except my two would be Asik and Waiters.

If the opportunity to buy these 2 is at a low price, Ainge is jumping on that no matter how they'd affect the team this year.  He's thinking future regardless.

[Who]

The only thing that would surprise me is Boston standing pat. 

Nothing else would surprise me.   Danny doesn't have a concrete plan.  He'll either make trades to help us win now or help us win later.  He'll jump on the best opportunity.

I am the opposite. I expect Ainge to make no moves.

I think Ainge would love to make another move or two right now but I don't think anything good is available for him at this moment. I think he'll be forced to wait until the summer.

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Edit: I mean Ainge has already traded away his guard depth (J.Crawford, C.Lee) in previous deals. I don't think he'll trade Rondo or Bradley and I don't think the backup guys have enough trade value to do anything interesting.

I think J.Green is in the long term picture and - outside of a big trade - won't be made available. Gerald Wallace untradeable because of his big contract. Humphries' expiring contract is so big that is difficult to trade. Sully is too valuable to give up without getting an All-Star in return (and nobody of required stature appears to be available). Olynyk hasn't done enough to generate strong trade value. I don't think Faverani or J.Anthony with garner much interest.

The only one who I think has a real chance to be moved is Bass. But even with him, I don't see all that many suitors out there. So I am not even optimistic about that. But if it is going to be anyone, I think it'll be Bass.

[LarBrd33]

The only thing that would surprise me is Boston standing pat. 

Nothing else would surprise me.   Danny doesn't have a concrete plan.  He'll either make trades to help us win now or help us win later.  He'll jump on the best opportunity.

I am the opposite. I expect Ainge to make no moves.

I think Ainge would love to make another move or two right now but I don't think anything good is available for him at this moment. I think he'll be forced to wait until the summer.

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Edit: I mean Ainge has already traded away his guard depth (J.Crawford, C.Lee) in previous deals. I don't think he'll trade Rondo or Bradley and I don't think the backup guys have enough trade value to do anything interesting.

I think J.Green is in the long term picture and - outside of a big trade - won't be made available. Gerald Wallace untradeable because of his big contract. Humphries' expiring contract is so big that is difficult to trade. Sully is too valuable to give up without getting an All-Star in return (and nobody of required stature appears to be available). Olynyk hasn't done enough to generate strong trade value. I don't think Faverani or J.Anthony with garner much interest.

The only one who I think has a real chance to be moved is Bass. But even with him, I don't see all that many suitors out there. So I am not even optimistic about that. But if it is going to be anyone, I think it'll be Bass.

If Ainge makes no moves, it would completely shock me.  But I said the same thing a couple seasons ago when I was adamant that the Celtics needed to trade Ray Allen.  We ended up standing pat, making a nice playoff run vs Horford-less Atlanta and 8th seed Philly... and then Ray left us with nothing in the offseason.

In retrospect, we did actually trade Ray that deadline... the deal just fell through.

I can't see us standing pat.  There's trades to be made and some urgency.

[CelticG1]

So what do we need to include to get kevin love?

[LooseCannon]

I can't see us standing pat.  There's trades to be made and some urgency.

I don't see the urgency and I don't see trades to be made.

[chambers]

I can't see us standing pat.  There's trades to be made and some urgency.

I don't see the urgency and I don't see trades to be made.

The urgency is the importance of this draft and the difference in value between a top 4- 5 and top 7-10 pick. It just astounds me how many Celtics fans seem to value the extra garbage we get for Bass and Green and whether or not we get a late first round pick or 2nd round pick being a deal breakers in deals for these guys. It's just so trivial to me and to think that Ainge would let that get in the way of clearing these salaries and the extra draft incentive involved is just not logical.
ie...if he could trade for Melo or Durant or an all star right now, then he'd pull the trigger. Likely hood of that happening ? Very low, because no ones giving up their franchise guys and even with our lotto pick and sully I don't see any options for him.
 He'd  also move veterans for draft picks + cap room...what he ultimately wants.
I didn't see anything about moving out of the lotto, just that if an all star level guy became available that he'd possibly be interested. He even said recently in the  article that he doesn't want anyone that's only good enough to make us a little better, He wants a big fish. If you haven't got a big fish, then you can talk to me about your team's young assets, picks and expiring so for our veteran guys.

My advice to everyone would be to take anthing Ainge says like this with a grain of salt. Danny usually is in the drivers seat, and he's famous for making 'everyone available' at every trade deadline, yet he usually comes out as a winner of most trades(or at least break even), and our best players aren't gone unless there's a very solid return. He wants to get better immediately by adding a franchise guy but so does every other GM. Reality is he'll probably try his best to move Green, Bass and Humphries for what he can get as long as it doesn't hurt our chances of signing big name free agents or trading for those kinda guys in the near future. He's also just trying to reinforce what the price is for what his veterans are worth in 'picks and assets'....doesn't mean he won't do a deal for less. Setting the tone for what should be a very interesting trade deadline.
This is Danny Ainge, the king of bulls*%$.

Not sure if anyone heard that interview on the radio about 4/5 months ago where Ainge talked about needing 'multiple franchise level players to win a championship' otherwise you're swimming in a mediocrity cesspool.
To me Ainge wants either,
A) a franchise player now via trade or
B) wants to move all his veteran pieces for as much as he can get so we have a top 5 pick.
I don't buy the argument that he'll stand pat and I do believe he's desperate to move Green and Bass and Humphries. It's not just about getting worse for the lottery (which plays a huge part anyway), it's about clearing cap room for the 14/15 and 15/16 crop of free agents, and the development of young guys now like Olynyk so they are worth more in 12 months time. You can bet your house if he can't get a top 10 or 20 guy via trade (unlikely) then he'll be positioning us for a tanka palooza for the rest of the season.
Remember his number one priority will be signing a franchise level star via trade, free agency or the draft. A top 10 player or someone that projects to be that kind of player.
The urgency is definitely there, particularly with Green. He could go out for scraps.  Same with Bass.

[LooseCannon]

I can't see us standing pat.  There's trades to be made and some urgency.

I don't see the urgency and I don't see trades to be made.

The urgency is the importance of this draft.

I'm not even sure that this draft is better than next year's draft, so I don't feel the urgency that this draft is some sort of once-in-a-decade franchise-building opportunity.

[chambers]

I can't see us standing pat.  There's trades to be made and some urgency.

I don't see the urgency and I don't see trades to be made.

The urgency is the importance of this draft.

I'm not even sure that this draft is better than next year's draft, so I don't feel the urgency that this draft is some sort of once-in-a-decade franchise-building opportunity.

I edited my post , but the importance is that if we want to rebuild quickly, we possibly only get one shot at being this close to a top 5 pick. The difference in 'franchise' level talent in top 5 picks vs top 6-14 picks is monstrous. This draft 'appears' to be deeper at the top than most.

Not just draftee wise for us, but the trade value of that pick. Ie..regardless if you like him or not, as an example ill use the Knicks and Melo. Would the Knicks give up Carmelo for the 7th pick? I very much doubt it. But the 4th pick? I think it makes their decision much tougher.

Those picks won't always be hallelujah's for the team that picks them, and most of the time they aren't. But with Danny as chief trader and a good scouting team we have a very good shot- or better chance than other teams of getting a championship caliber player with that asset.

[LarBrd33]

I can't see us standing pat.  There's trades to be made and some urgency.

I don't see the urgency and I don't see trades to be made.

The urgency is the importance of this draft.

I'm not even sure that this draft is better than next year's draft, so I don't feel the urgency that this draft is some sort of once-in-a-decade franchise-building opportunity.

I knew there'd be some backtalk on my "urgency" comment.  I don't have the energy to debate it.  But yes, I think there is "urgency".  We're at a crossroads.  Something needs to happen. 

Ainge already has options on the table, and I believe he probably has some he's comfortable with pulling the trigger on.  Don't expect anything to happen until deadline day... because even with a trade he's comfortable with taking... someone might beat it on the 20th. 

The only thing that would surprise me is Boston standing pat.  Something has to happen.

[PhoSita]

I like Sean Grande, but I get the sense that a lot of the time he's speaking the company line.  Doesn't surprise me that he'd suggest the Celtics are just a move or two away from being truly competitive next season.

  It's not just him though. When it looked like we were getting Asik there were plenty of posts here about how good we could be with 1 other move.

It really depends on the definition of "good."

Swap Bradley for Afflalo and trade Bass and a 1st for Asik, for example?

The Celtics are now the best team in the Atlantic Division heading into next season, and a real threat to make it to the second round and take Miami or Indiana (or perhaps a rejuvenated Chicago team) to 6 or 7 games. 

But that's about it, unless the above trades happen and the Celtics get lucky beyond measure and win the lottery despite having the 10th best odds and add Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins in place of Jeff Green.


With the 1st round picks owed us by Brooklyn over the next few years, maybe Danny Ainge can sustain and gradually upgrade that group so that we get a run of 4-6 years of making it past the first round, perhaps even getting to the ECF once. 

The first question is if it's really possible to make not just one but two moves to add pieces like Asik and Afflalo to this team without giving up players who are currently major contributors. 

The second is if being a perennial also-ran, albeit an entertaining one that at times gives us realistic hope for more, is enough (and from an owner's perspective, worth paying the luxury tax multiple times).

[cb8883]

I can't see us standing pat.  There's trades to be made and some urgency.

I don't see the urgency and I don't see trades to be made.

The urgency is the importance of this draft.

I'm not even sure that this draft is better than next year's draft, so I don't feel the urgency that this draft is some sort of once-in-a-decade franchise-building opportunity.

I edited my post , but the importance is that if we want to rebuild quickly, we possibly only get one shot at being this close to a top 5 pick. The difference in 'franchise' level talent in top 5 picks vs top 6-14 picks is monstrous. This draft 'appears' to be deeper at the top than most.

Not just draftee wise for us, but the trade value of that pick. Ie..regardless if you like him or not, as an example ill use the Knicks and Melo. Would the Knicks give up Carmelo for the 7th pick? I very much doubt it. But the 4th pick? I think it makes their decision much tougher.

Those picks won't always be hallelujah's for the team that picks them, and most of the time they aren't. But with Danny as chief trader and a good scouting team we have a very good shot- or better chance than other teams of getting a championship caliber player with that asset.

Agreed. I feel that the only way we should be "buyers" is taking on a bad contract for an early 1st in this years draft. Ainge can't possibly be gearing up for 2015 FA class. For one thing it's not elite, not one elite player is out there. Second, none of those guys would even consider Boston when a warm weather city like LA has cap room. Players won't come to Boston unless they had to via trade because of the media and most importantly the weather.

[gpap]

I don't understand this.

Clearly, this team was set up to fail by Ainge to secure a top pick this summer.

And now suddenly, we are "buyers."

Either Grande has no clue what he's talking about or Ainge doesn't have a clear vision as to what he's doing.

Only other thing I can think of is ticket sales this year for the Celts are in the toilet and they want to increase interest by trying to deal for a big fish.

But other than that, this makes no sense to me.