Sean Grande: Celtics could become surprise buyers

[cometboy]

I don't understand this.

Clearly, this team was set up to fail by Ainge to secure a top pick this summer.

And now suddenly, we are "buyers."

Either Grande has no clue what he's talking about or Ainge doesn't have a clear vision as to what he's doing.

Only other thing I can think of is ticket sales this year for the Celts are in the toilet and they want to increase interest by trying to deal for a big fish.

But other than that, this makes no sense to me.

I respectively dsagree. Danny is follwing the 2007 formula all over again (so far). The plan then, as it is now, was to secure a top pck. It was a top 2 pick in 2007, probably a top 4 or 5 ths year. When the balls didn't bounce our way in 07, Danny turned the 5 pick into Ray and the rest is history. He's doing the same thing this year. Perhaps the team is better than anticipated and he is now skeptical he can get a top 5, and isn't willing to gut the team making the rebuild more difficult.

Danny has made some mistakes, but after what he did in 07, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

CB

[BballTim]

I like Sean Grande, but I get the sense that a lot of the time he's speaking the company line.  Doesn't surprise me that he'd suggest the Celtics are just a move or two away from being truly competitive next season.

  It's not just him though. When it looked like we were getting Asik there were plenty of posts here about how good we could be with 1 other move.

It really depends on the definition of "good."

Swap Bradley for Afflalo and trade Bass and a 1st for Asik, for example?

The Celtics are now the best team in the Atlantic Division heading into next season, and a real threat to make it to the second round and take Miami or Indiana (or perhaps a rejuvenated Chicago team) to 6 or 7 games. 

But that's about it, unless the above trades happen and the Celtics get lucky beyond measure and win the lottery despite having the 10th best odds and add Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins in place of Jeff Green.


With the 1st round picks owed us by Brooklyn over the next few years, maybe Danny Ainge can sustain and gradually upgrade that group so that we get a run of 4-6 years of making it past the first round, perhaps even getting to the ECF once. 

The first question is if it's really possible to make not just one but two moves to add pieces like Asik and Afflalo to this team without giving up players who are currently major contributors. 

The second is if being a perennial also-ran, albeit an entertaining one that at times gives us realistic hope for more, is enough (and from an owner's perspective, worth paying the luxury tax multiple times).

  Over the next year or so I'd agree somewhat with your assumption. 3rd seed and 2nd round. But Asik and Afflalo are both fairly young, and relatively inexpensive. We'd have a top 10 pick from this year's draft and we'd still have plenty of upcoming draft picks to trade. Sullinger's still improving as a player and who knows what Miami or Indiana will look like in a few years. I'd say your prognosis for the team is more the floor for them than the ceiling.

[BballTim]

I can't see us standing pat.  There's trades to be made and some urgency.

I don't see the urgency and I don't see trades to be made.

The urgency is the importance of this draft.

I'm not even sure that this draft is better than next year's draft, so I don't feel the urgency that this draft is some sort of once-in-a-decade franchise-building opportunity.

I edited my post , but the importance is that if we want to rebuild quickly, we possibly only get one shot at being this close to a top 5 pick. The difference in 'franchise' level talent in top 5 picks vs top 6-14 picks is monstrous. This draft 'appears' to be deeper at the top than most.

Not just draftee wise for us, but the trade value of that pick. Ie..regardless if you like him or not, as an example ill use the Knicks and Melo. Would the Knicks give up Carmelo for the 7th pick? I very much doubt it. But the 4th pick? I think it makes their decision much tougher.

Those picks won't always be hallelujah's for the team that picks them, and most of the time they aren't. But with Danny as chief trader and a good scouting team we have a very good shot- or better chance than other teams of getting a championship caliber player with that asset.

Agreed. I feel that the only way we should be "buyers" is taking on a bad contract for an early 1st in this years draft. Ainge can't possibly be gearing up for 2015 FA class. For one thing it's not elite, not one elite player is out there. Second, none of those guys would even consider Boston when a warm weather city like LA has cap room. Players won't come to Boston unless they had to via trade because of the media and most importantly the weather.

  This explains why players like PP/KG/RA left the team the first chance they got. No players like that would ever stay in a cold weather city like Boston. We also have the proof that we've never signed a big name free agent in a season when we didn't have a lot of cap room.

[cb8883]

I can't see us standing pat.  There's trades to be made and some urgency.

I don't see the urgency and I don't see trades to be made.

The urgency is the importance of this draft.

I'm not even sure that this draft is better than next year's draft, so I don't feel the urgency that this draft is some sort of once-in-a-decade franchise-building opportunity.

I edited my post , but the importance is that if we want to rebuild quickly, we possibly only get one shot at being this close to a top 5 pick. The difference in 'franchise' level talent in top 5 picks vs top 6-14 picks is monstrous. This draft 'appears' to be deeper at the top than most.

Not just draftee wise for us, but the trade value of that pick. Ie..regardless if you like him or not, as an example ill use the Knicks and Melo. Would the Knicks give up Carmelo for the 7th pick? I very much doubt it. But the 4th pick? I think it makes their decision much tougher.

Those picks won't always be hallelujah's for the team that picks them, and most of the time they aren't. But with Danny as chief trader and a good scouting team we have a very good shot- or better chance than other teams of getting a championship caliber player with that asset.

Agreed. I feel that the only way we should be "buyers" is taking on a bad contract for an early 1st in this years draft. Ainge can't possibly be gearing up for 2015 FA class. For one thing it's not elite, not one elite player is out there. Second, none of those guys would even consider Boston when a warm weather city like LA has cap room. Players won't come to Boston unless they had to via trade because of the media and most importantly the weather.

  This explains why players like PP/KG/RA left the team the first chance they got. No players like that would ever stay in a cold weather city like Boston. We also have the proof that we've never signed a big name free agent in a season when we didn't have a lot of cap room.

KG came here because he was traded and couldn't get his deal to LA. On the flip side I do think Ainge probably trades for Gasol and some type of bizzaro world thing occurs if KG goes to LA. It took them getting Ray who will not have his number retired anywhere since he is the player equivalent to Larry Brown in order to get KG to finally give up once realizing that Boston gave Minnesota the best deal. This wasn't a situation where both teams gave comparable packages at all. If McHale goes to KG and says here is what LA is offering and here is what Boston is offering, pick one, he's going to LA and playing close to Malibu. Not to mention the warm weather, endorsements, etc...

[ForexPirate]

what's the urgency???

do you think Rondo is going to waste his prime on a re-building team?  No before he signs an extension, he wants to see some improvement.  The sooner the better if you want to re-sign him this summer before he goes free agent.

Danny says that he wants to get much better if he goes that route.  I see him tossing our first to Minny along with cap space with hump, sully and fav going there in return for Love.

I also see bradley and bass going to houston for asik.

We might as well put together a package for Sanders to. for a player and one of the many firsts danny has accrued.

Rondo - pg - pressey
green - sg - bayless - johnson
Wallace SF  - this needs improvement - maybe pp comes back
Love - PF - KO
Asik C Sanders

[pearljammer10]

I don't understand this.

Clearly, this team was set up to fail by Ainge to secure a top pick this summer.

And now suddenly, we are "buyers."

Either Grande has no clue what he's talking about or Ainge doesn't have a clear vision as to what he's doing.

Only other thing I can think of is ticket sales this year for the Celts are in the toilet and they want to increase interest by trying to deal for a big fish.

But other than that, this makes no sense to me.

I respectively dsagree. Danny is follwing the 2007 formula all over again (so far). The plan then, as it is now, was to secure a top pck. It was a top 2 pick in 2007, probably a top 4 or 5 ths year. When the balls didn't bounce our way in 07, Danny turned the 5 pick into Ray and the rest is history. He's doing the same thing this year. Perhaps the team is better than anticipated and he is now skeptical he can get a top 5, and isn't willing to gut the team making the rebuild more difficult.

Danny has made some mistakes, but after what he did in 07, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

CB

Yea I disagree as well. Danny has set this Celtics up to be "rebuilt" with a couple trades. Will that make us buyers at the deadline? Well maybe not, but will Danny set us up at the deadline to be buyers in the offseason and make a competitive team for next year? I have to say yes.

I think Danny can nab two all star potential/caliber players (like he did with KG and Ray) to add around Rondo, in a week east having three guys and a bunch of role players will get you a top four seed.

[Chris]

I believe it was Chad Ford in a chat a few weeks back who said that Danny Ainge is an opporunist.  And I think he was right on.  Danny's philosophy has always been to build by being prepared when opportunities present themselves, and knowing when to pounce.  If there is an opportunity to cash in some of his assets right now for really good value, then he will absolutely do it. 

[BballTim]

I can't see us standing pat.  There's trades to be made and some urgency.

I don't see the urgency and I don't see trades to be made.

The urgency is the importance of this draft.

I'm not even sure that this draft is better than next year's draft, so I don't feel the urgency that this draft is some sort of once-in-a-decade franchise-building opportunity.

I edited my post , but the importance is that if we want to rebuild quickly, we possibly only get one shot at being this close to a top 5 pick. The difference in 'franchise' level talent in top 5 picks vs top 6-14 picks is monstrous. This draft 'appears' to be deeper at the top than most.

Not just draftee wise for us, but the trade value of that pick. Ie..regardless if you like him or not, as an example ill use the Knicks and Melo. Would the Knicks give up Carmelo for the 7th pick? I very much doubt it. But the 4th pick? I think it makes their decision much tougher.

Those picks won't always be hallelujah's for the team that picks them, and most of the time they aren't. But with Danny as chief trader and a good scouting team we have a very good shot- or better chance than other teams of getting a championship caliber player with that asset.

Agreed. I feel that the only way we should be "buyers" is taking on a bad contract for an early 1st in this years draft. Ainge can't possibly be gearing up for 2015 FA class. For one thing it's not elite, not one elite player is out there. Second, none of those guys would even consider Boston when a warm weather city like LA has cap room. Players won't come to Boston unless they had to via trade because of the media and most importantly the weather.

  This explains why players like PP/KG/RA left the team the first chance they got. No players like that would ever stay in a cold weather city like Boston. We also have the proof that we've never signed a big name free agent in a season when we didn't have a lot of cap room.

KG came here because he was traded and couldn't get his deal to LA. On the flip side I do think Ainge probably trades for Gasol and some type of bizzaro world thing occurs if KG goes to LA. It took them getting Ray who will not have his number retired anywhere since he is the player equivalent to Larry Brown in order to get KG to finally give up once realizing that Boston gave Minnesota the best deal. This wasn't a situation where both teams gave comparable packages at all. If McHale goes to KG and says here is what LA is offering and here is what Boston is offering, pick one, he's going to LA and playing close to Malibu. Not to mention the warm weather, endorsements, etc...

  So that's why he and Paul went out west when they were free agents? Or did they (gasp) choose Boston over other destinations?

[BballTim]

I believe it was Chad Ford in a chat a few weeks back who said that Danny Ainge is an opporunist.  And I think he was right on.  Danny's philosophy has always been to build by being prepared when opportunities present themselves, and knowing when to pounce.  If there is an opportunity to cash in some of his assets right now for really good value, then he will absolutely do it.

  Even beyond that, Danny wants to turn things around quickly. He'll take a high draft pick if he gets one but I'm pretty sure he sees bottoming out and slowly rebuilding through the draft as a last resort.

[footey]

I think Danny is a buyer so long as he has committed to keeping Rondo, who has a limited shelf life, especially as an elite point guard.  He does not want to bring in a lot of rookies, who can't contribute until a few seasons out, at which point Rondo is no longer in his prime. Behooves him to rebuild faster.

If Rondo is traded, all bets are off. Hope he isn't.

[LilRip]

I believe it was Chad Ford in a chat a few weeks back who said that Danny Ainge is an opporunist.  And I think he was right on.  Danny's philosophy has always been to build by being prepared when opportunities present themselves, and knowing when to pounce.  If there is an opportunity to cash in some of his assets right now for really good value, then he will absolutely do it.

  Even beyond that, Danny wants to turn things around quickly. He'll take a high draft pick if he gets one but I'm pretty sure he sees bottoming out and slowly rebuilding through the draft as a last resort.

i don't think it's his "last resort". i don't think drafting a top rookie is considered as like, a "Plan C".

[Chris]

I believe it was Chad Ford in a chat a few weeks back who said that Danny Ainge is an opporunist.  And I think he was right on.  Danny's philosophy has always been to build by being prepared when opportunities present themselves, and knowing when to pounce.  If there is an opportunity to cash in some of his assets right now for really good value, then he will absolutely do it.

  Even beyond that, Danny wants to turn things around quickly. He'll take a high draft pick if he gets one but I'm pretty sure he sees bottoming out and slowly rebuilding through the draft as a last resort.

i don't think it's his "last resort". i don't think drafting a top rookie is considered as like, a "Plan C".

I think Tim was saying that a longterm rebuilding plan was a last resort.  Which I agree with.  I think Danny's ideal situation would be drafting a blue-chipper this year, while also using other assets to make the team a contender immediately.  So that way they can develop the future star, as they veterans lead the team to wins (and playoff revenue) sooner rather than later.

[BballTim]

I believe it was Chad Ford in a chat a few weeks back who said that Danny Ainge is an opporunist.  And I think he was right on.  Danny's philosophy has always been to build by being prepared when opportunities present themselves, and knowing when to pounce.  If there is an opportunity to cash in some of his assets right now for really good value, then he will absolutely do it.

  Even beyond that, Danny wants to turn things around quickly. He'll take a high draft pick if he gets one but I'm pretty sure he sees bottoming out and slowly rebuilding through the draft as a last resort.

i don't think it's his "last resort". i don't think drafting a top rookie is considered as like, a "Plan C".

  Like I said, he'll take a top draft pick if he gets it. I mean the "trade all the vets and try and build a contender through the draft over the next 5-6 years" plan.

[wdleehi]

I can see him cashing in some of the lower assets for the hard to fill role players. 


For example, grabbing a starting level C on a somewhat friendly contract for Bass and a pick this year from the Nets or (more likely) the clipper pick.

[dark_lord]

contrary to popular belief, it isnt about the picks and the young talent they could bring in.....it is all about collecting assets.  could he bring in young talent and use the picks, yes.....but he could also use them to "cash in" for the right player(s) as well. ainge will use the assets the best way he sees fit