Author Topic: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)  (Read 27096 times)

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Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2014, 08:23:11 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Detroit is finding it very hard to move Josh Smith. The idea that we could flip him would seem to me to be a foolish one. If we did we'd be taking a bath in all odds just to dump his salary.
Agreed he is being paid more than his value and I see it being more difficult to move him as
A time goes

Agree with both you guys.

Dumars made a very expensive mistake in Smith. If his value is substantially depressed, maybe we could steal him and not give up Green.

Some of you guys don't think he would be a good fit here. I disagree.

In Detroit, Smith is in the wrong "system", if you could call ex-coach Mo Cheeks' strategies a "system". More to the point, he has been playing out of position. He's a PF, and is most effective there both offensively and defensively.

Smith has been a knucklehead. We have rehabbed a few knuckleheads here in our history: Charlie Scott and Dennis Johnson come to mind. But Smith's knuckleheadedness is not off the court, just on the court. That can be fixed.

Rondo will not put up with him jacking 3s with no conscience. Neither will Brad Stevens nor will Ainge. JSmoove was a loose cannon  (No offense to our "Loose Cannon")in Detroit and Atlanta because his coaches couldn't handle him.

Smith is a true defensive force and rim protector who rebounds from the PF position very well, runs the court extremely well and fills lanes and scores down low with his length, quickness and athleticism which exploits most PFs.

If we can steal him (if Dumars is that desperate)and get to keep Green in the process, JSmoove could be our next Ray Allen (not positionally nor in similar skills) to help us attract our next KG (Love, Melo, whoever).

 Rondo/Green/JSmoove/Sully would be an attractive lineup to join.




Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2014, 08:40:23 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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In Detroit, Smith is in the wrong "system", if you could call ex-coach Mo Cheeks' strategies a "system". More to the point, he has been playing out of position. He's a PF, and is most effective there both offensively and defensively.

Is your plan to start Sullinger at center, bring Sullinger off the bench, bring Smith of the bench, or use Sullinger as trade bait?
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Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2014, 08:56:22 PM »

Offline nostar

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I'd do this: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ptylq42

But honestly I'd rather try to get something back for Green at the deadline and make a run at Luol Deng in free agency. If we move Green our tank rolls on and we get a strong possibility at filling the SF spot with our 1st rounder. The only way I take on Smith's salary is if we can move Wallace's. Olynyk is an innocent bystander :(

Unfortunately I doubt Detroit is going to take Wallace back just to move Smith. Seems like a non-start from both sides.

Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2014, 08:59:12 PM »

Offline Cman

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One reason I don't want such a trade to happen: can't stand the nickname "JSmoove"
Celtics fan for life.

Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2014, 09:00:06 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Simmons and Rose talked about the idea (not rumor!) on their Birdmester today.

Some intern watches that and feeds it into Tanguay, who regurgitates it. Nothing here.

Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2014, 09:04:31 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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In Detroit, Smith is in the wrong "system", if you could call ex-coach Mo Cheeks' strategies a "system". More to the point, he has been playing out of position. He's a PF, and is most effective there both offensively and defensively.

Is your plan to start Sullinger at center, bring Sullinger off the bench, bring Smith of the bench, or use Sullinger as trade bait?

Great question I was mulling myself.

Sully is too dominant rebound-wise to bring off the bench. We would have to either start him at center and have Smith be the weak-side help rim protector or use him to get that centerpiece "KG " along with some of our picks. He would be our AlJeff, if we're keeping the '07-08 analogy.

With Sully gobbling up 'bounds and starting the break, man I'd love to see Rondo, Green , JSmoove and Exum (I wish) run and run and run.

Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2014, 09:20:14 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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In Detroit, Smith is in the wrong "system", if you could call ex-coach Mo Cheeks' strategies a "system". More to the point, he has been playing out of position. He's a PF, and is most effective there both offensively and defensively.

Is your plan to start Sullinger at center, bring Sullinger off the bench, bring Smith of the bench, or use Sullinger as trade bait?

Great question I was mulling myself.

Sully is too dominant rebound-wise to bring off the bench. We would have to either start him at center and have Smith be the weak-side help rim protector or use him to get that centerpiece "KG " along with some of our picks. He would be our AlJeff, if we're keeping the '07-08 analogy.

With Sully gobbling up 'bounds and starting the break, man I'd love to see Rondo, Green , JSmoove and Exum (I wish) run and run and run.

Smoove isn't really a rim protector. He's a havoc-creator. He uses his athleticism and length to get into lanes and disrupt plays. But he doesn't stay camped around the rim.

Honestly, if there's still a way to nab Asik, I think a frontcourt like this:

Smith(32)/Sully(16)
Sully(16)/Asik(32)

Would be absolutely dominant. Athleticism, rebounding, post scoring, defense, passing... you've got all the bases covered. Put a strong passer and shooters on the court and you've got yourself a great foundation.

Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2014, 09:25:06 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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In Detroit, Smith is in the wrong "system", if you could call ex-coach Mo Cheeks' strategies a "system". More to the point, he has been playing out of position. He's a PF, and is most effective there both offensively and defensively.

Is your plan to start Sullinger at center, bring Sullinger off the bench, bring Smith of the bench, or use Sullinger as trade bait?



Great question I was mulling myself.

Sully is too dominant rebound-wise to bring off the bench. We would have to either start him at center and have Smith be the weak-side help rim protector or use him to get that centerpiece "KG " along with some of our picks. He would be our AlJeff, if we're keeping the '07-08 analogy.

With Sully gobbling up 'bounds and starting the break, man I'd love to see Rondo, Green , JSmoove and Exum (I wish) run and run and run.

Smoove isn't really a rim protector. He's a havoc-creator. He uses his athleticism and length to get into lanes and disrupt plays. But he doesn't stay camped around the rim.

Honestly, if there's still a way to nab Asik, I think a frontcourt like this:

Smith(32)/Sully(16)
Sully(16)/Asik(32)

Would be absolutely dominant. Athleticism, rebounding, post scoring, defense, passing... you've got all the bases covered. Put a strong passer and shooters on the court and you've got yourself a great foundation.

TP...sign me up ....all we need is a Korver type (McDermott late) and we're good to go.

Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2014, 10:22:47 PM »

Offline colincb

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I'd do this:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ly75kd9

We get salary relief, shooting, and the best talent.

Detroit gets rid of the longest termed deal, a player they don't use at all, and better fits for their roster.
I'd do that deal after trading Hump + Fav + Clips 1st + Philly 1st = Asik + Covington (SF) + Brooks or Smith [works in the TM]. You'd have enough to get a decent SF (PP?) in the summer and lots of free cap in summer of 2015 and still keep your best 1st rounders.

Asik + Smith + AB + RR gives you many of the best defensive players at each position. Draft and buy wing scorers. Forgive me this intricate scenario.  I usually avoid them like the plaque, but both DET and HOU should be very motivated sellers and these two deals aren't that one-sided.

Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2014, 05:13:20 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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In Detroit, Smith is in the wrong "system", if you could call ex-coach Mo Cheeks' strategies a "system". More to the point, he has been playing out of position. He's a PF, and is most effective there both offensively and defensively.

Is your plan to start Sullinger at center, bring Sullinger off the bench, bring Smith of the bench, or use Sullinger as trade bait?

My plan would be to use Sullinger as trade bait. 

Despite Sullinger's young age, I still believe Smith has more upside.  Smith's only real limitation is mental - his actually talent level is through the roof.  There is always the odd chance that in the right organisation something could click, and his mentality could change.

The NBA has had more than it's share of such stories.  Zach Randolf.  Andre Blatch.  Jordan Crawford (still a chucker, but does seem to have matured a ton as a person), Terrence Williams (as per Craword), Demarcus Cousins, etc.

Smith is a guy who could come in and give you 35 minutes a night at the PF spot, no problems at all.  Sully lacks the conditioning to offer that, so as long as Sully is your starting PF you are always going to have to invest a lot of money in a very solid backup PF...because that backup PF is going to be giving you a good 20 minutes or so per night.

I have more faith in Smith improving his mentality than I have in Sully improving his conditioning and becoming even an average NBA athlete.  I also believe that Sully's mentality is overrated here...he's not exactly the shining white knight that he's labbeled as on CB.  He's already got his share of dark shadows surrounding his personality - there's the frequent fragrant fouls, the fact that he's foul prone, the domestic violence case (no matter what you believe the reality is) and the fact that his dad needed to give him a yelling to snap him out of a lazy streak that he himself admittedly he had fallen in to.

If there are any player's on this team who have the absolute perfect attitude / mentality it's Avery Bradley and Kris Humphreys.  Actually Olynyk seems like he has his head on right too. 

Sully's attitude may not be as big a problem as Smith, but he's still far from perfect in that regard.

I'd take a gamble on Josh Smith. 

Lets put it this way

1) We owe Jeff Green $9M/year over three years (including this year).  Josh Smith is owed $13M over four years (including this year). 

2) Jeff Green is not a #1 scorer type guy, and even calling him a #2 scorer is a stretch.  It really looks like 16 PPG is the ceiling for Green.  Smith is also not a #1 option, but he's generally a 17 PPG - 18 PPG guy.  In terms of scoring production that is a slight improvement over Green.  Green is a better three point shooter, but then Smith is a better post scorer.  Green is a better free throw shooter.  Green overall is probably more versatile offensively, but Smith tends to put up more points...about equal here.

3) Everybody complains here that Green is inconsistent and not driven enough.  Same with Smith.  No disadvantage here.   

4) Everybody complains here that Green is a poor passer.  Smith is one of the best passing big men in the league - probably top 5 in that regard.  Big benefit to Smith here.

5) Everybody complains that Green is a poor rebounder for his position.  Smith is a well above average rebounder (typically around 8-9 RPG over his career).  Big benefit to Smith here.

6) People complain that Green cannot defend PF's, can't protect the rim, and has poor ball handling skills.  Smith is much better equipped in all three of these areas, especially shotblocking - he's been a very good shot blocker throughout his career.

So Smith is basically better than Green in every single aspect of the game except attitude and offensive - in both of these categories both players have their strengths and weaknesses.

Considering you are only paying $4M extra for Smith, and you're only locked in one year longer...and you are getting a player who is better in almost every way.  Even if he never improves and remains the palyer he is, you'd still do it. If he does change his mindset and sees even a portion of his potential, then this would end up one of the most lopsided trades in the past decade.

Plus contract or no contract, I still believe Smith has more trade value than Green does. 

Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2014, 05:19:31 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I'd do this: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ptylq42

But honestly I'd rather try to get something back for Green at the deadline and make a run at Luol Deng in free agency. If we move Green our tank rolls on and we get a strong possibility at filling the SF spot with our 1st rounder. The only way I take on Smith's salary is if we can move Wallace's. Olynyk is an innocent bystander :(

Unfortunately I doubt Detroit is going to take Wallace back just to move Smith. Seems like a non-start from both sides.

I'm not sure why you'd make a run at Deng?  He's pretty overratred IMHO.  Paul Pierce was putting up similar production to Deng last season at the age of 35.  Deng isn't young and has zero upside.  He's not slow, but he's not exactly super athletic either.  Plus he's not the type of guy you would likely sign on a cheap deal...he'd probably cost you around the $10M mark at the very least, with multiple years.  I seriously don't see Deng as much of an upgrade over Green.  Slightly  better rebounder, better passer, comparable defender (Green may be better at this point in time), similar scoring numbers, less athletic than Green.  More or less on par IMHO and more of a sidestep than an upgrade.   

Smith isn't super young anymore, but his athleticism means he can still play with the same speed and pace as a 22 year old...he can keep up with a team of young guys moving forward.   Even in the worst case he's an upgrade over Green, and in the best case he could become an All-Star.

Probably won't...but you never know.

Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2014, 05:46:55 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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In Detroit, Smith is in the wrong "system", if you could call ex-coach Mo Cheeks' strategies a "system". More to the point, he has been playing out of position. He's a PF, and is most effective there both offensively and defensively.

Is your plan to start Sullinger at center, bring Sullinger off the bench, bring Smith of the bench, or use Sullinger as trade bait?

Great question I was mulling myself.

Sully is too dominant rebound-wise to bring off the bench. We would have to either start him at center and have Smith be the weak-side help rim protector or use him to get that centerpiece "KG " along with some of our picks. He would be our AlJeff, if we're keeping the '07-08 analogy.

With Sully gobbling up 'bounds and starting the break, man I'd love to see Rondo, Green , JSmoove and Exum (I wish) run and run and run.

Smoove isn't really a rim protector. He's a havoc-creator. He uses his athleticism and length to get into lanes and disrupt plays. But he doesn't stay camped around the rim.

Honestly, if there's still a way to nab Asik, I think a frontcourt like this:

Smith(32)/Sully(16)
Sully(16)/Asik(32)

Would be absolutely dominant. Athleticism, rebounding, post scoring, defense, passing... you've got all the bases covered. Put a strong passer and shooters on the court and you've got yourself a great foundation.

How does Asik protect the rim any better than Smith?  He's big and slow.  Over his career he's averaged 1.6 blocks per 36 minutes, and this year he's averaging 0.8 (per 36).

He also averaged 4 fouls per 36.

Also if you were to get that three-man rotation, who are you bringing off the bench?  Sully? 

I don't think Josh Smith would take too kindly to a bench role, and we already know how Asik (the worst player of that trio) feels about being a lowly bench player.

I think Asik is a good rim protector in the same way as Jason Collins was - throw weight around, foul lots, force your backup center to play lots of minutes, give the opposing team lots of free throws.

I don't know if there is a single player inthe league I want less than Asik.  I don't think I'd evne trade Wallace for Asik, that's how much I dislike the guy.  He's terrible....beyond terrible. 

Asik's Per-36 minute numbers:
* 8.5 points
* 13.7 rebounds
* 1.0 Assist
* 2.5 Turnovers
* 0.4 steals
* 0.8 blocks
* 3.8 fouls
* 47% FG
* 63% FT
* Salary - $8.4M

By comparison, here are the Per-36 numbers for Reggie Evans:

* 7.3 points
* 13.3 rebounds
* 1 Assist
* 2.5 Turnovers
* 1.2 steals
* 0.2 blocks
* 4.9 fouls
* 39% FG
* 54% FT
* Salary - $1.7M

Plus Evans won't whine and complain about coming off the bench.

Can somebody (anybody) please explain to me what the obsession is with Asik?  He is by far the most overrated center in the entire league, he may well have THE worst contract in the entire NBA, and he has a horrendous attitude.   Any team that trades for him with the intention of making him a starter will be the laughing stock on the league.

People keep looking favourably upon Asik because he performed so well as a role player off the bench in Chicago.  The reason he did so well there is because that is the role Asik was built for - he is the a pure role player. He's a guy you bring off the bench for 20 minutes a game to grab you some big rebounds and give you some hustle / energy.  Then you sit him back down and bring your starters back in so you can actuall score some points. 

I'd be perfectly happy to have Asik if he had a $2M or $3M contract, because I would like to have an Asik type player (big body, rebounder, hustle guy, energy guy) coming off the bench. 

The problem here is that first of all, he doesn't make $2M - $3M.  He makes $8M.  Second of all he doesn't want to come off the bench - he thinks he's too good for that, and the last time a team tried to do it he requested a trade.  If he's unhappy coming off the bench behind Dwight Howard, imagine if you were bringing him off the bench behind...Jared Sullinger?  Brandon Bass?  Don't think it would go down so well.


Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2014, 07:04:20 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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A big shooting 47% from the floor on our roster would be a throw back.

Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2014, 08:08:56 AM »

Offline gpap

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As I've stated before, if Ainge is telling the truth about wanting to build around Rondo, then acquiring Smith makes alot of sense.

They draft a good SG in the draft (or resign Bayless for next year if the draftee needs more time) and look to acquire a center this summer with whatever money they have(Gortat, Okafor, Hawes and Aaron Gray are some free agent centers who I'd love to see the Celts go after.)

I would start Smoove at the 4 and Sully as your 6th man, which I think would only benefit Sully.

As for what players to give up, I would package either Jeff Green OR Wallace along with Avery Bradley to get Smith.

Then, this summer they can also go after Gordon Hayward to be the starting SF.

Rondo, Hayward, Smith, Sully could be the core of a very good team (IMO.)

I understand the frustration of Smith's shot selection and style of play, and I would rather go after a Bosh, Kevin Love or Lamarcus Aldridge.

But, if Smoove is the best we can do, I take it.

Maybe I have a little more faith in him than I should.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 08:13:59 AM by gpap »

Re: josh smith to boston? (rumor?)
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2014, 08:16:48 AM »

Offline Birdman

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I doubt Bosh, Love, or Aldridge would come here..i say Love will be a Laker, Bosh staying in Miami or Dallas, Aldridge staying at Portland...Boston is a tough city to get a top FA to sign here b/c of weather for one thing..so trading for a top player may be are only option and I like Smith here
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin